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How do stratified soil layers affect ground balance?

N

Neil in West Jersey

New member
As I have been giving the soccer field a work-over, I began thinking about the fact that the soil on the playing field is fill, as you can see by the photo, and all of the targets are in the top few inches. When I go off the playing field to the sidelines which slope down and are not fill, there is a noticeable change in the threshold, and since I don't use Auto-trac I need to re-balance it.

When a metal detector uses automatic ground balance, as in the case of the V3i, DFX and other White's detectors, is it ground balancing to the top layer only?

Based on my understanding of how the V3i sees a target (it cannot see a dime buried under a silver dollar, or a silver dollar buried under a large tin), I would say that the V3i automatically balances to the top layer of soil. In the soccer field case I am able to balance off the playing field and walk onto the field if I want to get to the bottom layer, but what about areas that this is not possible?

I guess detectors with a manual GB would be better suited for this type of environment?

How do modern metal detectors handle stratified soils like this?
 
Neil,
I don't use auto tracking either. You can however manually ground balance the V if you know how to do it. I tried it once and it didn't work out too well for me.
I'm think the V reads as deep as its able when ground balancing. I may be wrong but that's just my thoughts.
Have you tried to use auto trac and adjust the speed of it?
Maybe someone at Whites will read this and be able to help more..
 
Interesting question Neil. I always thought that the machine ground balances to a combination of everything that's in it's field. Like you don't ground balance over a target. If this is the case it would ground balance to a combination of the 2 soil layers.Hope an expert comes along with the answer.
 
Manual G B info was posted by Tony Orlando over a year ago on this forum. It's a pretty good post, but not for all operators.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?66,1244617,1246124#msg-1246124

John London
 
The V3i will balance as deep as it can see. I believe that if you ground balance after you leave the field that you will be out of balance when you go back to the field.

As far as a dollar under a tin it has nothing to do with GB it is just a case of masking. The V3i does not balance to the top layer. I use Locktrac but I don't think this would be a reason as you have explained it.
 
My reason for this is over the years you can get a signal and dig down lets say a foot. Here in Virginia even where the top layer is mild to moderate once you get down 8" or so you get red dirt or clay.

After getting the target out or while waving the dirt over the coil to find the target you can get a positive response from the dirt.

If the machine had balanced to the soil way down deep then it would not sound off when waving it over the coil.

I think it will balance to whatever overall ground picture it sees, that just makes sense?

Just my two cents worth.

I have always been frustrated by another phenomenon that you will have the detector ground balanced and especially when I run mine slightly positive.

You will get what sounds like a good whisper deep signal, dig and nothing is there but you notice now the same signal is on the edge of the hole like it is reading that now.

I will have to experiment some now that this is on my mind to see if I can prevent that but exact ground balance or a touch negative balance without killing my depth.

Any thoughts?
 
jtalley007 said:
I have always been frustrated by another phenomenon that you will have the detector ground balanced and especially when I run mine slightly positive.

You will get what sounds like a good whisper deep signal, dig and nothing is there but you notice now the same signal is on the edge of the hole like it is reading that now.

I will have to experiment some now that this is on my mind to see if I can prevent that but exact ground balance or a touch negative balance without killing my depth.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...


I get this sometimes with concentrations of salt fertilizers. They look like coal but have a VDI around 3. When they are buried only an inch or two they can sound like deep whispers. If I am suspicious, I dig a shallow plug. If the signal is no longer in the hole it is one of these salt rocks.
 
Rob (IL) said:
The V3i will balance as deep as it can see. I believe that if you ground balance after you leave the field that you will be out of balance when you go back to the field.

As far as a dollar under a tin it has nothing to do with GB it is just a case of masking. The V3i does not balance to the top layer. I use Locktrac but I don't think this would be a reason as you have explained it.
Click to expand...

While using the Locktrac, I can leave the field and if I make no adjustments I can go back on the field and it will still be balanced. The tin was an analogy to demonstrate that the ground is seen as a target, unless it is ground balanced out, therefore the V3i and VX3 will balance to the top layer only, because that is as deep as the detector can see.

I am also not sure if the GB Offest works the same way as a Course GB. I would think it is a Fine GB control so I wonder about the validity of the manual GB method in the link.
 
Sometimes I try to ground balance by pinpointing for a clean spot and will get bars but no sound or target and those bars may say 6" for example' so i ground balance till the V quiets down. Now does that mean my V will only see targets up to 6" with that ground balance setting because sometimes its hard to find a clean piece of ground with no bars. :confused:
 
The ground has a VDI and we are trying to find that VDI and make the detector not sensitive to that VDI. We try to find an area were our pinpoint mode shows no targets so we are getting only the VDI of the ground and not the VDI of the ground + whatever the the pinpoint is reading at 6 inches.

It won't mean you are only ground balanced to 6 inch it just means you are not exactly ground balanced. If you are in autotrac it will soon adjust.
 
OK... I'm confused. If the machine is able to maintain GB with autotrac why would you want to enable locktrac. I would think you would want to have the best GB available. I realize that in very high mineralization you might have different issues but in normal ground why not autotrac?
 
What you said is correct. It would mostly be a problem in high minerals. Some people however feel they run quieter in Locktrac. Also some people feel the G/B drifts while they dig a target. This could be from the coil pointing with no ground to see or the DX1 causing this???

If you are not using a DX1 and you feel you have this problem pressing the menu stops tracking while digging and when you are ready to hunt just pull the trigger.
 
Thound said:
Interesting question Neil. I always thought that the machine ground balances to a combination of everything that's in it's field. Like you don't ground balance over a target. If this is the case it would ground balance to a combination of the 2 soil layers.Hope an expert comes along with the answer.
Click to expand...

This. It's all it can do. The phase of the ground that it sees is what it will balance to. The layered ground will report back with a phase - it will be a combination of the 2 phases of the layered grounds if layer one isn't so thick that it has all the phase effect. Layer one may have one phase, layer 2 may have another. But the detector can only see one phase which will be a combination of these 2 phases which is what the machine will g/b to. The top soil will likely have a larger effect on the phase since it's shallower, but the bottom will have some (depending on thickness and strength of top soil).

If you have layered ground where one layer changes significantly (like the fill was much thinner in one area, or the ground underneath changed significantly, whatever the cause), the phase that the machine will see will also be changed and therefore need to be rebalanced.
 
Thank you oh great one.:devil: No really thanks Anne.
 
I use my V3i occassionally. I have a question. How far off can the ground balance be and still sound off on say an 8 inch silver dime? I ask this question because I see where a lot of the more experienced users like to lock their tracking. Is there something wrong with the V's auto tracking function? And I've noticed when using my Fisher F75se I do a quick grab ground balance in a field I hunt frequently and I notice the f75 will balance at say 55. Move about 20 yards (same field) and do another balance it may read 56. I guess a better question is. How do you know when to reground balance the V3i after your initial balance? And if there is an audio indication that alerts the user to reground balance how far does the ground and the machine's sensing have to differ to give this audio indication to check your balance and maybe rebalance? And am I correct. A good ground balance is raising the coil pulling pinpoint, lowering coil over clean ground no noise, then slowly raise coil, no noise?
 
I don't use auto track because it seems to drift and I have to adjust more often and it always makes me wonder if it's in balance.
This is one reason I use the 5 tone in my iron ranges. It makes a ticking sound, as I am hunting, if the ticking stops and I get nothing but threshold, I will ground balance on that spot. That assures me that I am ground balancing the actual ground from my machine. The soil doesn't vary much here in my parts.

You can pull the trigger while over clean ground and lift the coil and if you get tone...it's out of balance.
I recheck my ground balance about every 20 minutes and it's hardly ever out of balance...maybe one time out of a hundred.
 
squirrel1 said:
I use my V3i occassionally. I have a question. How far off can the ground balance be and still sound off on say an 8 inch silver dime? I ask this question because I see where a lot of the more experienced users like to lock their tracking. Is there something wrong with the V's auto tracking function? And I've noticed when using my Fisher F75se I do a quick grab ground balance in a field I hunt frequently and I notice the f75 will balance at say 55. Move about 20 yards (same field) and do another balance it may read 56. I guess a better question is. How do you know when to reground balance the V3i after your initial balance? And if there is an audio indication that alerts the user to reground balance how far does the ground and the machine's sensing have to differ to give this audio indication to check your balance and maybe rebalance? And am I correct. A good ground balance is raising the coil pulling pinpoint, lowering coil over clean ground no noise, then slowly raise coil, no noise?
Click to expand...

You will notice threshold changes as you swing the coil. And it will rise or fall when you lift it. I also use Lock Trac, as I do notice that the AutoTrac seems to drift at higher gains.
 
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