HOT vs non-HOT and behavior around iron

[tvr]

I've got a Cibola, Tejon and Compadre.

With both the Cibola and Tejon set up at any discrimination level from iron to max, with sensitivity at any level above 7 (haven't done the test with it below 7), threshold so it is usable for pinpointing, both detectors sound off on the play ground anchor shown in the picture (quarter shown for size but is not there when test done). They give that clipped edge beep that I hear with bottle caps. It is a clear hard beep, not just a click, with the edges of the beep clipped like a bottle cap gives, not smooth. It does not discriminate out. When I swing the coil within a couple of inches it sounds off.

With the Compadre with discrimination set just above iron, where a medium size nail goes away, this ground post also goes away as far as the Compadre is concerned. Not a click at all on the anchor from the Compadre even when I am 1/4 inch from it with the sweep.

Was wondering if anyone else has experienced similar results with the HOT series vs the older series detectors?
tvr

 

[Neil]

tvr Im guessing youve got the detectors set up with the same size coils, all with the 5.75 that comes on the compadre unless youve got an older 7" coiled compadre?

thats a pretty big piece of iron and mass also has an effect, not just the iron itself. Do any of the detectors hit on the quarter solidly, not the clipped sound you speak of? I know what you mean about bottlecaps, Michigan Badger used to say the Tejon has audio you can tell some targets with and damned if he isnt right, I can hear a bottlecap with just a bit of iron knocked out, it really effects the audio.

can you get the compadre to work up against a chain linked fence? I figured out a way to get my sov to but cant do it, so far, with my tejon. hoping you can shed some light on that, hunting along beach fences is a great place to find things, people put alot of stuff there.

Its amazing with all the raving about the compadre, why wouldnt tesoro come out with one with a sens control, all metal/disc toggle, you know, kinda like the silver umax setup. you dont hear so much about the silver umax as you do the compadre, is it the freq difference or what?

HH
Neil

 

[tvr]

Neil,
All with 9 x 8 concentrics ... including the Compadre.

Did not test the quarter next to the anchor. I'll have to set that up some time.

Have not yet spent time working fence lines with the Compadre.

The fence links are mostly galvanized so that coating gives hits that won't discriminate out at iron. I've actually found buried small pieces of galvanized fence that I'm pretty sure I hit on the coating. Keeping coils level to the ground and working the coil slowly I can get within about 3 to 4 inches with Cibola or Tejon and hear good targets.

Around the play ground equipment with the large metal vertical poles, the Compadre as this one is configured, does not have an advantage in getting closer. I can actually get the Cibola with the sensitivity turned down to 4 or 5 closer and find some change.

Larger iron has pretty much always sounded off with the Cibola and Tejon. With the Cibola, super tuning it made the large iron really problematic for me. Running normal and not super tuned not so bad.

This anchor in the local play ground has sort of become a quick test point for me. My CZ's will show it as iron if I swing real slow. The new for me XL-Pro discriminates it out nicely at discriminating set to iron at most sweep speeds, but if I swing at a quicker rate over it, the meter pegs at 100 and I can get a very short beep. The meter peg and little to no beep seems to be a pretty good giveaway that it's iron.

tvr

 

[David]

Neil, why do you say that the Compadre vs Silver uMax as I thought they were the same? I would say the Silver uMax vs Vaquero is a better comparison on (rusted)iron. If the Compadre is better I would like to know why also?


Hi tvr!, a little bit hard for me to understand your tests?

Putting the Cibola, Tejon, Campadre, XL Pro, and CZ's in order on a list.

Like on the anchor in the local play ground or on other iron, can you make a list from which one handles iron the best>>>>> to which handles iron the worst.

Maybe trying both slow and fast sweep speeds over the iron also. Maybe on both plain non-rusted iron and rusted iron as well.

I know this is alot of work or maybe you have already done such tests?

Thank you!

 

[JHM]

This sounds normal to me. I don't have a compadre but I do have a Tejon and a Cibola. Both are deeper than the Compadre. Increased depth requires a stronger detection field which will also increase the sensitivity to iron and aluminum. It would be interesting to see if the compadre would pick up a gold ring next to the iron. But on second thought I don't want to know, I've got 4 detectors already. I don't need the temptation.

 

[Neil]

This sounds normal to me. I don't have a compadre but I do have a Tejon and a Cibola. Both are deeper than the Compadre. Increased depth requires a stronger detection field which will also increase the sensitivity to iron and aluminum. It would be interesting to see if the compadre would pick up a gold ring next to the iron. But on second thought I don't want to know, I've got 4 detectors already. I don't need the temptation.

I think I would buy one also if it could hit a small gold ring next to that piece of iron. it might sound off on a larger one but I doubt it. the quarter has a better shot at being heard.
Neil

 

[Neil]

Neil, why do you say that the Compadre vs Silver uMax as I thought they were the same? I would say the Silver uMax vs Vaquero is a better comparison on (rusted)iron. If the Compadre is better I would like to know why also?


Hi tvr!, a little bit hard for me to understand your tests?

Putting the Cibola, Tejon, Campadre, XL Pro, and CZ's in order on a list.

Like on the anchor in the local play ground or on other iron, can you make a list from which one handles iron the best>>>>> to which handles iron the worst.

Maybe trying both slow and fast sweep speeds over the iron also. Maybe on both plain non-rusted iron and rusted iron as well.

I know this is alot of work or maybe you have already done such tests?

David I mentioned the Silver because its the next up in tesoros line, they all can be compared to each other. the compadre is a lot of peoples favorite it seems.
Neil

Thank you!

 

[Monte]

Its amazing with all the raving about the compadre, why wouldnt tesoro come out with one with a sens control, all metal/disc toggle,

They sort of have, but they should have perfected what they had. 'DEPTH' is what brought them to lose iron rejection performance. The Compadre has the ED-180 discriminate circuitry adjustment range and it will generally knock out iron more cleanly than the H.O.T. or most

 

[tvr]

Monte,
Appreciate the the detailed information and thoughts across many models. The information about uMax models being all high gain circuits and their iron discrimination being between the pre-uMax models and the HOT series certainly will influence my thoughts on expanding the detector tool collection.

Will not be able to do more testing and comparisons for a couple of days. Got to travel and won't have a detector with me.
tvr

 

[JB(MS)]

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[David]

Well that explains it, all my questions answered by Monte!! I finally got the Tesoro iron issue about straight is what I have been wanting to know. THANKS MONTE!

1) I am curious Monte, about the Lobo being one of the best Tesoro has every offered in iron trash. I wonder why is that? I have heard a simular thing from Steve Herschbach about iron hotrocks.

2) Monte, aso is the Tiger Shark also a good iron handler? It does sound like that from people on this forum.

That is very interesting about Gold Mountain and some Whites units are good in iron too.

3) The Tesoro Manual GB units if there were any, before the uMax models came out, should compare just as good as the Gold Mountain for iron handling?

Now I will be looking to buy a used Gold Mountain Cobra or GMT-1650, Silver Sabre II, Sidewinder, Cutlass II, or better yet a Bandido or Bandido II, Golden Sabre(II and Plus), Pantera, Classic III SL(Plus), or IDX Pro for the best iron rejection units that are no longer made.

4) Out of ALL of these above, which one would you choose as THE best one or two in iron?

5) You are dealing with many past units that handle iron the best, that are not made anymore, which is very good, but what units that are NOW still made on the market, available NEW, that handle iron the best?

NEW models that are still available that handle iron the best(correct me if I am wrong, take away or add to this list): Compadre, Lobo ST, Tiger Shark, MXT, X-Terra 305-505-705, E-Trac, Gold Bug-2(in Disc.), and maybe the Fisher F75? Musketeer Advantage?

 

[Monte]

When Gold Mountain Technologies and Pillar and Compass were all going under (due to their errant decisions in marketing to get quick cash flow), I sold my personal Pillar 4 Reale, and GMT-1650 and Cobra. I had been a distributor but it was a lost cause due to their decisions, which was a shame. Those three ventures cost my wife & I all we had and and put us and our family in a bind. I went back to dealing in Tesoro's, mainly.

All along I wondered why Tesoro didn't see the potential in a "better design" for discrimination and incorporate it into their product line. It's coming up on twenty years and they still haven't given us the 'perfected' GMT-1650/Cobra solution. I often think it's because they want to think all of their new designs are mainly their contributions and might not be humble enough to lower themselves to use somebody else's "modified/improved" version of some of their basic software design?

I hope you have good coils for your GMT-1650 and that it is percolating away without a hitch!

Monte

PS: The friend who bought my personal GMT-1650 took little time in adding an external Threshold control and, if I remember correctly, gave it a second Disc. control knob so you could set the Low range and High range separately.

 

[Monte]

Well that explains it, all my questions answered by Monte!! I finally got the Tesoro iron issue about straight is what I have been wanting to know. THANKS MONTE!

You're welcome. Just glad I could help someone.

1) I am curious Monte, about the Lobo being one of the best Tesoro has every offered in iron trash. I wonder why is that? I have heard a simular thing from Steve Herschbach about iron hotrocks.

The original Lobo had the full range Disc. circuitry AND manual GB that was tied in with BOTH the All Metal AND Discriminate modes, AND so was the Sensitivity.

The Lobo SuperTRAQ and Diablo

 

[tvr]

Lots of information. ... for me, rating just on iron discrimination and not other charateristics that aid the hunt across my detectors from best large iron discrimination to not as good:
Compadre, XL-Pro, Cibola not supper tuned, CZ6a and CZ20, Tejon, Ciboa super-tuned. They all do well with the small iron. Things start to change when it's a medium to larger nail or a bolt bigger than about 8-32 x 1 inch long.

Looking forward to seeing Monte's reports on the F75 and T2.
tvr

PS So far the Tejon is my best nickle popper in the ground I usually work in ... maybe a different discussion.

 

[Neil]

tvr do you think theres a cost involved with better iron discriminators, do you think they mask more? I dont have a compadre for comparison or any of the other Tesoros. I just sold a Vaquero and tested it against my Tejon and they are both about equal on how close I can get a gold ring next to a rusty nail, closer than some other detectors anyways. for instance the sovereign blocks iron really well up to the larger stuff, but its not gonna get a gold ring close to rusted iron. it blocks iron better than my etrac or tejon, but those two will get the same ring closer to rusty iron. see where Im going?

Monte pointed out some interesting things about ways Tesoro could have gone, its a real head scratcher why they dont do some things.

your right about the tejon an nickels, it hits em deep and hard.

Neil

 

[douglaskc]

2) Monte, aso is the Tiger Shark also a good iron handler? It does sound like that from people on this forum.

I have a Tiger Shark and a Bandito II umax. I can tell you how the Tiger Shark compares to it. There is definitely less "chatter" in disc mode with the Tiger Shark than the Bandito....given the same size coil. A smaller coil on the Bandito will make it quiet down to about what the Tiger Shark does. I don't know though if this is typical or normal behavior. But I do like the Tiger Shark for this reason.

 

[downeaster]

GMT1650!! Boy, does that bring back memories! One of the all-time best detectors I ever used. I agree totally with Monte in that Tesoro fumbled the ball with that one. Still have my IDX Pro with Bill's mods, so all is not lost. GMT1650/Tesoro crossbreed- I would sell all my other detectors to have one.

 

[Monte]

the "Low-Noise/High-Gain" circuitry like that used in the Bandido II

 

[Monte]

Just the thought of a new model release that captured the simplicity with raw performance that a short-lived oldie had.

GMT1650!! Boy, does that bring back memories! One of the all-time best detectors I ever used. I agree totally with Monte in that Tesoro fumbled the ball with that one. Still have my IDX Pro with Bill's mods, so all is not lost. GMT1650/Tesoro crossbreed- I would sell all my other detectors to have one.

I know I wouldn't make it my ONLY detector, but I'd certainly add it to my personal arsenal and that could help narrow my detector battery to 2 or 3 units, total.

I would also like to see Tesoro go to some numeric names for at least a model or two. Stay away, however, of snake names and devil names. I have known a number of people who would not own or use (even touched) a Cobra, King Cobra, Sidewinder (a model name used by Garrett Electronics over 20 years before Tesoro used it), or Diablo, to name only a few.

Matter of fact, I suggested a model a or two and did some Personal Messaging with Jack Gifford a couple of years back. He told me if I posted my idea on a forum I would probably never see it in production because his sons followed much of his same design approach. I bugged me because that told me right there they were not very open minded to my, or your, opinions and thoughts about products we'd like to see. So, 'til now I've kept pretty quiet. Unfortunately, I haven't seen anything new and/or exciting come from Tesoro for quite some time now.

I'll just hope they will give us something worthy to spend hard earned cash on in the very near future.

Monte

 

[slingshot]

Don't take it personally, Monte. I sent a Silver Sabre umax in 4 times to be repaired and they checked it, even tuned the coil to the detector, etc. They never accepted the fact that it would foul up after a few minutes of using. Thankfully, I had a great dealer who just switched a Silver umax, brand new, with a 4" coil, headphones, and a carry bag to satisfy my waiting so long. Ironically, the dealer sent it in the 5th time and told the Giffords to either junk it or fix it and they ended putting a new board in it. His dad is now using it.