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Hmmmmm who is right about fisher cz3d:shrug:

C.J.M.

Well-known member
Well, lots of pros & cons about the cz3d as to where was the FIRST cz3d made?:shrug:As far as I can remember the CZ-5 and the 1270 were the last detectors made in los banjos,california.THE CZ3D was first made @ 1ST TEXAS as far as I can remember and yet people keep trying to pass down some of the old serial no's 1020 series that were from los banjos???:unsure:This #'s are on the 1st texas detectors( cz3d) since the 2000's. Is this trend used to sell??? When the parts ran out on 1270 ,they quit working on them@ 1st texas,according to felix at 1st Texas.
What do you think?:shrug:
 
Will need a much better historian than I am to fully address the question!

That said; the Fisher Intelligence 4th edition (that is available on the Fisher web page) shows an issue date of Nov. 2004, reports include "Creating the CZ3D" and "CZ3D unique operating instructions". The 4th edition shows an address for Fisher in Los Banos.

That leads me to be pretty confident the first CZ3d's came out pre-First Texas.

Cheers,
tvr
 
I suspect you'll be wanting to have the old memory checked. ;)
The history of the CZ3D is well documented as being pre-First Texas...and from Fisher Research Labs in Los Banos (not Banjos).

One of the last units to come out of FRL was the I.D. Edge...well after the CZ-3D.
First Texas Holdings ( which is also the producer of Bounty Hunter & Teknetics producer ) acquired the assets of Fisher Research Labs in early 2006.

mike
 
The first run of the CZ3D were produced in Los Banos, Ca. When they
first came out the depth was amazing. Then you know who took
over and the quality and depth suffered. That's why all the hype
on finding a machine with that special serial #. Not to say you can't have
a later CZ3D that's HOT. There are just fewer hot machines than the first
series made and in my opinion quality and depth surely took a dive.
Just my thoughts.
silverseeker 2
 
If you don't have the "inside dope", it'd be easy to think that Fisher was shipping great stuff from Los Banos and when they went on the auction block, First Texas bought a great company and proceeded to screw everything up. But that is not what happened.

When FTP bought Fisher, Fisher was dying a horrible death. I saw the factory, I saw the books. Same building, mostly the same people, but a completely different company from the one I'd left in 1995. Manufacturing was in total chaos, sales on everything were falling like a rock, profits were a negative million dollars a year, and they were selling some products below manufacturing cost just to make it look like they still had a business. I told the boss that I may still love Fisher, but as a business matter he shouldn't pay a dime for it. Fortunately he didn't listen to me on that one, and here we are nearly 10 years later shipping more "Old Fisher" product than the "Old Fisher" was shipping.

Part of what killed the "Old Fisher", was that under the Roger Cimino regime there was an effort to reduce manufacturing costs by cutting stuff out without first understanding why things were the way they were. In the case of the CZ's, they replaced the original labor-intensive calibration procedure I wrote, with a Cimino procedure to make it real easy to pass one final step provided that you didn't then exercise the machine to do everything it was supposed to do. In short, it was a fake calibration that fooled only the person doing the calibration, not the customer. The result was enormous variation, with no machines actually doing what they should. The situation created an aftermarket calibration business for Dankowski, who'd been sufficiently involved with the CZ3D to know how it worked and how to calibrate it.

When FTP bought what was left of Fisher, they didn't tell us that the correct calibration procedure had been scrapped and replaced with a Cimino procedure. When the operation was moved to El Paso, the procedure that people were taught was the Los Banos procedure. Since machines were passing that test, we were puzzled why so many problems were being reported by customers. Finally I got dragged into it, discovered that the calibration procedure being used was completely wrong, and plowed through the archives looking for a copy of the original procedure. Fortunately it was there. We resurrected it, made a couple minor modifications to it, made sure that all copies of the Cimino procedure were destroyed, and deployed the correct procedure.

Even with the correct procedure in hand, the CZ is a difficult machine to tweak up. If you're inexperienced or in a hurry, the result is a sloppy tweak (although still far superior to a Cimino tweak). Things got a lot better overnight, and with experience and with emphasis on not being in a hurry, fairly soon complaints of lousy tweak just about vanished.

--Dave J.
 
How fortunate we are to have the preeminent living legend of the hobby posting (and setting many records straight) here.

Chances are the detector you use has been influenced by Dave J's engineering, even if it is not a First Texas detector.

A properly tuned, stable and deep cz-3d is a joy to use in appropriate locations. But getting a proper and deep cz-3d that works to "design intent" can be a challenge.

I understand that Tom Dankowski can certify depth in his mild Florida dirt and properly calibrate a cz that is out of tune. He has done so multiple times for me. But he can do very little to improve depth when he tunes them. Usually just a few tenths of an inch, if any.
 
I wonder if Dave J.s explanation/history lesson reveals the truth behind the 'urban legend' of the 1021 CZ3D craze? It sure seems to fit!
 
There is no reason the new cz3d's aren't as good as ever,they turn out F75's,T2's,CZ21's etc. that trumped by all users including me.
There to me,the best machines out there.
Oh, is anyone on here in p'cola with a cz3d I can compare the 4 tones to my 6a to see if want to sell and buy a 3d before they quit making them?
 
:clapping:David Johnson tells it like it is... Great Guy full of facts. Let me have the Honor to let everyone reading this thread:
He was inducted it BONE 2015 for his service and knowledge and willingness to help all who are having "detector
problems." Way To Go Mr. Dave! Parrott
 
Thank you, Dave, for straightening that out for everyone. I just bought a brand new Los Banos Coinstrike. It was still in the original box and never opened, and I feel so blessed to have stumbled on this gem! I had one when they first came out, and it was a great machine when you understood how to use it. I regretted selling it to get another machine that I thought would be better, and I was not happy. Anyways, thanks for putting old myths to rest! Merry Christmas!

Chuck Johnson
 
What year did los banos location closed and I hear 1st texas was bought in 2000----is that right:shrug:Now heres an eye opener ---fisher detectors and T2"S are being made in china,there are a couple of youtube videos, one Brit is showing off how Chinese are tagging their logo on the same assembly line and selling hundred of dollars cheaper he event does a bench test on a CHINESE model with excellent results.How is this happening?THE Chinese co. that was making them also was making certain fisher models plus other models ordered by a 5 ***** dealership in the states:look:THIS Chinese co was an off shoot from Alibaba co. in china.
I for one bought A fisher 1236 x2
to my supprise at the bottom of the control assembly .box there was a black strip tape with red letters and said"assemble in china ":sad: Are the Chinese passing this detectors or is it cheaper for fisher to assemble them there:shrug:According to felix who works @ 1st texas ,they just do repairs.
 
If it's Chinese made its gotta be a counterfeit. As far as I know all 1st Texas product are made in Texas with American made components.
If they go to China I'll buy any other brand that's made here,my dollars are made and spent here.
I have no desire to fund commies that are trying to bring America down and making money off of illegal knock offs and sticking us with junk.
 
Los Banos Fisher contracted several models (notably the 1236x2) to a company in Taiwan. It cost them more to make it in Taiwan but at least the Taiwanese took pride in their work so the quality was better. When FTP bought the Fisher corpse we finished out the existing 1236x2 inventory & contract, and then discontinued the product.

No Fisher products have ever been made in mainland China either before or after we bought the corpse.
 
Thank you Dave for the correct story. There are so many folks talking about stuff when they have no idea what went out, and are just speculating on stuff. Things like Fisher units made in mainland China, or CZ-5 being the last unit made in Los Banos. I have a Coinstrike which I believe was one of the last models the old Fisher made, along with the ID Edge. CZ-5s had been around for a long time...and deservedly so! Thanks for sharing your intimate knowledge of the Fisher family and I wish folks would stop bashing FTP. Ours is not a huge hobby market, and we should celebrate anyone willing to work in the small profit margins to keep bringing us new models and keep the hobby growing.
 
YOU better do an intensive search because it all points to that,plus the fact Felix who works there,said all they do is repair work????MY 1236 x2 was made in china and they were made in the 80's---------makes you wonder what in the world is going on:shrug:
 
Dave J agreed that the 1236x2 units were made in Taiwan, which is also known as the Republic of China DID make the 1236X2 for Fisher under contract. However, the Republic of China is not mainland, communist China, officially known as the People's Republic of China. Taiwan (Republic of China) has been know for quality electronic items for years, and in no way can be compared to the shoddy workmanship that often comes from communist China (The People's Republic of China). So, really nothing is going on. Just that the 1236x2 was made in China (Taiwan) and not communist China. As Dave said, that is the ONLY unit ever made outside the USA by Fisher.
 
Yes, China has been flooding the market with counterfeit T2s and F75s. It is a real problem!
 
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