HELP!! F5 Will Not Respond To A Silver Dollar:ranting:

[WV62]

So Mud what was your numbers on the silver dollar? My brother Mark tried it on his Omega and he got a 99.

Ron in WV

 

[Monte]

at least one of you, and I'll share some interesting testing I just did today, with a NEW Fisher.

Proves up what I have said since the first of this thread.

Monte

 

[MarkCZ]

So Mud what was your numbers on the silver dollar? My brother Mark tried it on his Omega and he got a 99.

Ron in WV

I believe Mud was saying the dollar hit at a 93 and the half hit at 92.

Doing some more air testing this evening with the omega here is what I got.

Silver Half Dollar =94 to sometimes 95 (seems to lean more towards the 94 with multiple sweeps)

Silver dollar = 98 to 99 (about 50-50 on multiple sweeps)

One thing I wish is that the Omega (detectors like it) had a little more headroom for the dollar reading, while I'm out hunting I often times get target ID's that hit 99, larger pieces of scrap copper pipe, brass pad locks, larger pieces of lead, and with the dollars tipping the 99 range its just not possible to zone them. nickles, pennies, quarters, and even screw caps have enough headroom to at lest put them into a zone, but not silver dollars, they are right there with larger junk items. Silver dollars needs at lest a range of at lest 3 segments of its own, then maybe in the headroom an area for "Out Of US Coin Range" maybe even another tone, or just all zero's. (Hint!!!) From the numbers I'm reading for the F5 it looks like the Dollars are right near the end of the scale as well.

Let me use this as an example.
My Coinstrike ID's these targets in this order!

Silver Half =36-37
Silver dollar =39 (and pretty tight at that)
Then I tested this somewhat large aluminum plate =51(I just found this laying around the house)
With this scaling its possible to zone silver dollars.
The one thing about the Coinstrike's ID scale is it probably has a lot of wasted space in the upper range, but if I had to choose an extreme I would take the extra headroom.

But! I'm glad the Omega will hit on a Silver Dollar.

Mark

 

[togg77]

Monte, please share your test findings on your new fisher. Thanks from all of us.

 

[Mike Hillis]

The CoinStrike is a different animal. It was designed for specifically for mineralized ground. Mineralized ground will "add" to a coin's reading, making it appear much higher in conductivity than it actually is. So the CoinStrike has all that addtional room at the high end so that high conductors can stay in the non-ferrous range longer.

In some of my ground, which is high in iron minerals, a dime will wrap to iron very fast. With the Coinstrike, the dime may read as a 44, which would be iron on anyother detector, but still a high conductive non-ferrous response on the Coinstrike. That is speaking about a dime. Imagine what happens with a quarter, or a half, or a dollar. The higher the minerals the more the movement toward and into ferrous. Even with the high conductor range available in the Coinstrike, these can often get pushed. I can talk a lot about the Coinstrike. It is still one of my favorites in high iron minerals.

HH
Mike

 

[MarkCZ]

The CoinStrike is a different animal. It was designed for specifically for mineralized ground. Mineralized ground will "add" to a coin's reading, making it appear much higher in conductivity than it actually is. So the CoinStrike has all that addtional room at the high end so that high conductors can stay in the non-ferrous range longer.

In some of my ground, which is high in iron minerals, a dime will wrap to iron very fast. With the Coinstrike, the dime may read as a 44, which would be iron on anyother detector, but still a high conductive non-ferrous response on the Coinstrike. That is speaking about a dime. Imagine what happens with a quarter, or a half, or a dollar. The higher the minerals the more the movement toward and into ferrous. Even with the high conductor range available in the Coinstrike, these can often get pushed. I can talk a lot about the Coinstrike. It is still one of my favorites in high iron minerals.

HH
Mike

Thanks Mike, I've managed to hold on to one of my C$'s, the new one anyway. If my brother Greg gets the okay to send his F5 in then I promised to loan him my Omega, which will put me in the field with the C$ for the rest of the season.

Mark

 

[Hightone]

The first F5s was the first process that the F series became designed upon. By the time the Teknetics Greek came out, the process had all the bugs worked out. It is these "first" F5s that still have bugs, the plug in connector series. When you send it back to Fisher, they will replace the processor to work like the Omega's and newer series F5s.

From the essays by Dave Johnson on the Fisher site under "Processes":

“F5 process” The Fisher F5 and “new” Gold Bug, and the Teknetics Delta, Gamma, and Omega use a process first developed for the F5. The “F5 process” is a variation on the “default” process which emphasizes quieter operation in heavy iron trash.

 

[MarkCZ]

at least one of you, and I'll share some interesting testing I just did today, with a NEW Fisher.

Proves up what I have said since the first of this thread.

Monte

Thanks Monte, I sent you an email with some other questions.

Mark

 

[gravityrulz]

My F5 and Tek Delta both have the "don't see a silver dollar disease" but only with the 5" or 11" DD coils.

If I use the stock 10" elliptical on the F5, a silver dollar IDs at 92-95.
If I use the stock 8" round on the Delta, a silver dollar IDs at 98-99.

The behavior on both machines with the DD coils is erratic in both All-Metals and Discriminate, sometimes it will ID the silver dollar (but not with expected depth), most of the time ... nothing.

Both machines have the screw-on connectors, the F5 displays '01' when pinpoint button is held down on power-up.

This doesn't inspire confidence in these machines ... even though its unlikely that I've missed anything as a result.

 

[gravityrulz]

Correction, checked the Delta with 11" coil again in All Metals mode and it is seeing the Silver Dollar with an ID of 98-99. In Discriminate mode, it only indicates a target with the tip of the coil (?). You can get an overload signal is the coin is placed within 1" of the coil.

 

[Hightone]

That makes sense. I can get overload laying my 8" coil on top of a quarter.

 

[Monte]

At least be me and some savvy folks who I learned from/with decades ago.

Correction, checked the Delta with 11" coil again in All Metals mode and it is seeing the Silver Dollar with an ID of 98-99.

Most, not all, of the mopdels I evaluate will get a single silver half or dollar or stack of these coins in All Metal, but do not do well in the Discriminate mode. Why? It has to do with the Ground balance setting for the Discriminate mode. Even the manual GB or automated GB units mainly have that working in All Metal while the Discriminate mode GB setting/reference is not directly associated with it. The Disc mode GB seems to be too positive.

In Discriminate mode, it only indicates a target with the tip of the coil (?).

Yes, especially with a Daffy Duck (DD) search coil because, in this example, the silver dollar has shifted into the "fold-over" or 'wrap' range and is behaving opposite to some iron targets. It's a GB issue, mainly. If you swept directly over a bottle cap it would beep, but do an "Edge-Pass Rejection" sweep near the tip of the coil and the bottle cap will lock on Iron and be rejected or give a low iron tone if you have 2 tone audio ID. Since the performance is screwed up, the desired target [size=small](in this case the high-conductive non-ferrous silver dollar)[/size] doesn't respond like the bottle cap with a center sweep, but off the tip it also gives the reverse behavior and beeps.

Also, Double-D coils have some weaknesses in that they do not discriminate as well as a Concentric coil and more. Easier to explain and demonstrate, but I'll do that next month for folks in a day-long seminar. I wish you could be there.

You can get an overload signal is the coin is placed within 1" of the coil.

That will happen with a lot of detectors and many different targets if the target is too large, too close to the search coil, if the Sensitivity is set too high, or a combination of all of these. Also the search coil size and type will have a bearing on the overload condition.

Monte

 

[Monte]

Plan on at least a full day to read through it and try and decipher what I am explaining.

Monte

 

[Keith Southern]

Pretty sure it's the Disc ground phase....

if it's set out of specs all the manual ground phase in the world won't help..

The internal pot is probably set too high and is knocking out big silver ...ill bet dimes are we all quarters are weaker and so forth..

you can't go by the ground numerous your getting on manual ground bal...it's internal..I've see this a few time on the Omega the gold bug g2.

it's a simple fix yet it needs to be returned unless you know where to set the internal one...

you can turn the internal pot and get it really hot on big silver but the low conductors suffer...and on the low freq you don't need that....let FT align it for you...


first thing I do when I unbox a machine is make sure a silver dollar will hit...it more common than you may think..

Keith

 

[Monte]

The first F5s was the first process that the F series became designed upon. By the time the Teknetics Greek came out, the process had all the bugs worked out. It is these "first" F5s that still have bugs, the plug in connector series. When you send it back to Fisher, they will replace the processor to work like the Omega's and newer series F5s.

If you think all the bugs were worked out, bring all the detectors you have to a seminar I am doing on Saturday November 8th and we'll see. Yes, there have been, and there are, bugs in the processors/software, or whatever you want to refer to, even with the latest and greatest "Relic Hunting" model.

Monte

 

[Hightone]

If it's digital electronics, it's going to have bugs. Just ask Steve Balmer. It's only as strong as it's weakest point. If a detector was perfect, you woudn't have everone and their brothers constantly trading and buying newer updates to seek something even better, deeper.

I would love to hear your seminar. But wasn't aware of it. I have orated many myself, just not in MDing. Security and Human Developement.

 

[supertraq]

Tried ten silver dimes in my hand and get a weird bounce mid to vco on my gamma,for real

 

[WV62]

Tried ten silver dimes in my hand and get a weird bounce mid to vco on my gamma,for real

So supertraq, would you dig those dimes if you were on a actual hunt??

Ron in WV

 

[supertraq]

Only if I knew it was 10 silver dimes,other wise no..

 

[mudpuppy]

Hey Supertraq..they should have hit high, unless you were holding them all in your hand with a gold ring on it......that said, tight spills, stacks and slants of the same denomination are generally 'diggable' targets...its those multidenom stacks and tight spills that can give a guy a stupid signal...I'm gonna try some masked silver dollar targets in the yard, with a buff nickel or something on top to see..I would think theres a lot of silver dollars out there that are masked by other metal in the hole with them that have seen a coil, but threw off such a stupid signal they never got dug...
Mud