Having a Problem?

[rustedwoodsman]

Howdy All, I just joined the forum today, but I've been reading your posts for the last 4 months or so. After 1 month with the V3i, I'm going back through the posts for a second/third time. In doing so, I came across the post where Rob asked if anyone was Having a Problem? To my surprise, no one is!! All of the responses seemed to be amazed that anyone could be still lost after 500 hours on the V. I don't have the patience to put in 500 unsuccessful hours, but I've hit my first 50, and things aren't looking very good. I don't know any V3i owners, don't have a club within 2.5 hours, and my dealer is 4 hours away. So I'm hoping I can get some help here. If this fails, I'll make the trip to the dealer, and after that, maybe I'll add another 3 hours and visit Sweet Home. Retirement does give you time to play!

I live in central WA on the east side of the cascades. Here in the valley the soil is generally a rocky, sandy loam (maybe rocky, rocky loam). I'm waiting for the snow to finish melting and my ability to improve before hitting the mountain sites I've been researching. Phase has been very consistent at -93, and the strength usually runs about 4.5%. Signal is always under 10% (3 to 4 the most common) and noise is only 1 to 4 percent. EMI? I suspect not much! The only site I found that actually demonstrates EMI is the set up video by EMS. His EMI expands his spectrograph bars way to the right, and he says that no correction is necessary. (steady hum, not pulsating) When I find EMI (I often do) it's usually just a "wobbling" noise with no expansion of the bars, and in the lower frequencies. If the bars do expand, it's usually just a small amount to the left. If I stand there holding the pinpoint trigger, the volume will start to "ratchet up".I don't know if any of this is significant? My understanding is no harm, no foul. As long as the detector is (in my view) stable enough, the wobble in the threshold has no direct affect on performance? (Possible "masking" aside)

The problem: I can't get the V3i to perform any better than the 5900 DP SL that I awoke from it's ten year retirement.

In the test garden: the 5900 in DISCRIMINATION mode can ID a penny, dime and quarter at 4", and a quarter at 6". The 6" penny and dime are giving me noise, but nothing on the meter. It does nothing on the 8" coins. IN SAT I get a pretty loud responses on all of the 6" coins, and something out of the 8" quarter and penny. If in a very clean site, I'd dig the 8" responses. The 8" dime would be hard to recognize from normal ground irregularity. Coins on the open ground will hit 6/7" and MAYBE 7 to 8" in pinpoint.

Most of the standard V3i (stock 10" 2D coil) programs (C&J, Coin, Hi Trash) that use discrimination will perform very close to these same numbers! I can do a little better with the disc and the Hi Pro program. I was getting good sound and "reasonable VDIs" on 25% of my swings over the 6" dime and penny. Usually it comes down to good hits in one direction (moving around the target) and from one side. At 8", I'd have to swing for a long time to get a good sound out of the quarter, NO positive VDI numbers, and nothing at all out of the other 2 8" coins. If I switch Hi Pro to Mixed Mode, I can get FAINT AM hits on all of the 8" coins, but no VDIs of any kind.

Ground Balancing. There's a post out there by Low Boy in regards to GB (8/22/11 I think is the one), and finding the "best place" to balance. In trashy parks, finding a clean place can take a lot of walking around. Looking back at the Set up video by EMS, the video shows a ground PP of 13", I have never come close to touching that. In my yard, and in the park sites, I usually PP the clean ground at 6 to 7 inches. That's the best I can do. So I PP and start detecting. But as I learn how VERY CRITICAL this GB seems to be, I'm wondering if I ever really get a good GB??

Is it all me? Do I make the 4 hour trip to the dealer to assure myself it's all me? Is there enough here (too much!!) for you to take a shot at the "problem"? If the answer is this is normal V3i performance, I'll be a little disappointed. I'd rather find out I'm an idiot and the problem can be fixed.

Sorry this is so long and hits on so many possible problems. I'm just trying not to keep moving toward those 500 hours. Thanks to anyone who can help. Dave

 

[Schultzie]

Hi Dave, welcome to the forum. I hunted elk in the Little Naches area for 10 years. Awesome location!

I gather from your post that your main problem is lack of depth. Your post states "stock programs" so I'm assuming you didn't change much if anything. First off, try holding the unit out waist high, turn Rx to 15 and Tx boost off to see if your coil overloads. If it does, the coil is bad. Start with Coin & Jewelry and stick with it until you figure things out (less confusing that way). Did you try increasing your Rx Gain(13?), Discrimination (85), All Metal (75) settings? As long as you unit is stable with increased settings you can keep them set there. Not sure what you have tried. Then, I would try changing your filters to see if it improves depth. Your ground phase seems good so you might try 5 or 7.5 filters. I'd start with 5 and swing slow to moderate. Obtaining a good ground balance is paramount to the performance of the detector. I'd start with this stuff first and I am sure the others here will help out. There are good people here... all willing to help. Good luck!

 

[Rob (IL)]

What Schultzie said to start with.

You never said if you were using autotrac or locktrac. In either case it's not a bad idea to start and run in auto for a few minutes to get a ground average before locking. Test your ground balance, in PP the audio should remain constant while raising and lowering the coil.

 

[rustedwoodsman]

Hi Schultzie, and thanks for the reply. The company I worked for has land in the Little Naches, but it was managed by the Enum Claw foresters up until a few years ago - when It was turned over to me, and I too think it's a great area. I love the high and dry country with the PPine and Larch. But I have to admit that it can get a little crazy for me during elk season. The place gets flat out packed with hunters, and I walk through the woods singing (poorly) to myself in the hope that no one will shoot me. But they might just shoot me because of my singing!

I have tried raising the sensitivity, lowering the ground filter and Rd and "slowing down", but I haven't seen any great improvement. I didn't comment on those changes because I didn't write down the results, and I don't want to say something that isn't correct. I've been a little "all over the board" looking for answers, and I have to slow down and take better notes - starting tomorrow if I get the chance (rain in the forecast!).

As has been pointed out in the forum, depth is relative. If someone in the know told me that 5" is the best the V3i can do here, then I want to learn how to get those 5 ". But right now, I can also get those 5" with my 5900, and I feel like the V should be doing better. There may not be any targets over 5" in the parks I've been searching, but I'm going off the test garden also. So far, all of my hits over 5" have been rusty nails or chunks of iron that hit heaviest in the 2.5 frequency. It also seems that lately I've been digging to 6" targets that aren't there, so I suspect that these are more rusty iron.

Anyway, I'll be back when I have more results, Thanks again for the reply, Dave.

 

[rustedwoodsman]

Hi Rob,

I've bounced around a bit with the auto and lock. I read the post about switching to menu when digging in auto, and I've been trying to remember to do that when in auto. I like that idea better than the loose coil facing the ground approach. I'm guessing that I may have been guilty of checking for a place to balance while in the discrimination mode rather than pinpoint, so I'll watch for that.

Like I said to Schultzie, my main concern isn't the actual performance, but rather the performance vs the 5900. I really want the V3i to work out because I enjoy the detector, but it really should be able to outperform the old 5900. I'll keep working at.

Thanks again, Dave

 

[rustedwoodsman]

Howdy, I'm back again, and I think I'm ready to accept full responsibility for any problems that my V3i is having competing against my old 5900.

I came across an air test on another site's related videos, and my V3i compared pretty favorably to the results on that V3. Technically, I'll be waiting to see if my test results produce any responses from other forum readers, but for now, I think my V3i is probably wishing it could give me a swift kick in the rear and tell me to pick up the performance on my end.

As a side note, I also ran my old 5900 through the air test, and it did well enough that I think I'll have to keep it as a backup. I was going to sell it to help pay the family back for the money I spent on the V, but it's tough to beat a paid-for-machine that can air test consistently on a quarter at 12 or 13 inches with an occasional 14" thrown in. That was in discrimination mode with the sensitivity turned all the way up, discrimination all the way down, and balance all the way to the right (good ground). I thought that was pretty good. I also tested it with the "factory settings" (everything set to the turn on and go Ps), and I was getting a strong 10" with an occasional 11". I would have never expected those results; plus the meter was consistently reading Quarter. In all fairness though, when the 5900 falses, the meter usually ends up on Quarter, so the meter reading may have been dumb luck.

Thanks again for your responses, and hopefully I can add some positive stuff in the future. Dave

 

[nw1886]

I'm just over the hill from you going through Naches Pass.and by choice run with the V3i and 6000 Di/Pro. (Exact same machine as your 5900 except added auto ground balance.) The fact that I run both is very telling in that I enjoy and NEED the features of both the V3i's more advanced digital approach and the top dog analog's audio response. I actually sell,service and play with most brands of detectors as part of my job and there are so many good attributes with all the makers.....but these fit me best because of my long use and comfort with them. (That V3i is the only machine I'd haul if I could take just one machine!) But still there are times when I'm running the analog machine and know that the V won't out perform it because of what I'm hunting in and what's there for the finding....this will hold true with lots of compatitive hunting when talking the truly good machines period.

The Yakima Valley can have all kinds of "introduced" ground salts (from the huge amount of agricultural production in the area) but it seems to be only in pockets and is not the rule? I'd just mess with the normal adjustments and those are the sensitivities,recovery delay, and frequency choices as these are what gets me through almost all of my hunting. Just put in some more time in known easy ground and get your comprehension of all the adjustment balancing there....the V is one deep son of a gun and WILL cover your tail in some tough situations and get you finding stuff there. (There will be a point where there is no brain strain and little adjusting pressure)as you had a feel for it all when you first set up for the spot....and just did it.) Guess what....I still end every long hunt with the 6000 Di/Pro because the change up back to analog relaxes me like a baby. Don't sell your 5900!!!!

 

[rustedwoodsman]

nw1886, thanks for the input.

The knock dead sites I researched this winter are killing me. I don't know anyone old enough to help me find the one site. I have it "narrowed down" to a 2 mile stretch of ridge. The 70+ year old camp sites are only yielding a little clad so far, and everywhere else I go in the mountains I'm hitting mineralization of 35%+. I'm getting pretty beat up and not finding anything. It always amazes me that I can find bullets on a deserted mountainside, but I can't find a silver coin anywhere in my little world!

I walked in to Lester the other day, and found 4 memorials in one hole - that's it. All of the parking areas where crushed rock was brought in are also really high in mineralization, but I'll try it again a few times. It's only about a 2 mile walk-in from the eastern gate. Do you know if this area was heavily hit by the clubs in the past?

Anyway, I'll hang on to 5900 (as long as the boss doesn't give me too much grief). It's about time for my once a year trip down to Morris Creek to kick a few rocks that might have gold under them. I'm going to have to pick up a Rainier NP map to make sure I don't start playing around on the park with my detector. Maybe see you out there some time, somewhere.
Dave

 

[nw1886]

Right on! The area you are detecting in is beyond description. (I live here , see it every day....and it still can just put a lump in my throat by turning a bend in the road or trail...JMHO but it is prettier than Alaska where I was raised!) The rangers have been very helpful to me in the past and can direct you to staying within bounds and rules so it is best to have open communication with them.....they do know all the private land owners adjacent to the park too and that can be quite helpful.

No, I don't have any knowledge of club activity up there as my job pretty much keeps me hopping at the counter but we do heavily support and promote them (and we know most everyone in them).....so I'll enquire. As far as the silver goes.....it is there but would guess there is a lot more closer to home. (I hunted three yards in Zila and found some....not near the whole experience though!)