GT Tones... how many?

[deanosaur1972]

Just wondering, I am sure I read somewhere a while back that the Sovereign GT had 16 different tones.......... Is that correct....?

Also...... have any of you experts out there compiled a list of the different tone types, I know that its sometimes difficult to explain a tone and also that many use a VDI.

I have a few tones that I recognize now - and working some trashy sites in the winter should improve that vastly to get complete knowledge.

Thanks...

 

[Art (NWOH)]

Hundreds.
One of the typical myths is that there are 17 tones...one for each frequency. Some guys well say 3 or 4, others 8 or 10. Have heard a lot of them .

I spent a half hour or so one time with a frequency counter hooked the the headphones on my 2a and played with various objects at various distances to get different readings.
For every 2 digit change on my 550 meter I was able to get a measurable difference in tone frequency in the threshold. I had to check threshold frequency because target audio was not stable and present long enough for the counter to complete a good count.

You can't distinguish differences this small with your hearing.

HH

 

[kered]

Hundreds of single tones, not to mention the multiple ones

 

[synthnut]

16 tones doesn't scratch the surface ....Jim

 

[deanosaur1972]

Hundreds of single tones, not to mention the multiple ones

Ah.............. I think my plan to compile a list has jumped out the window of a very tall building

Or maybe I can try.......... will report back my findings in 10 years time..........

 

[kered]

 

[Critterhunter]

Wow, with a tone change measured by a device for every two digit change on the 540 meter that's much more diverse than I had figured. Much more variation than most people can even hear I would guess.

 

[Critterhunter]

Some of you maybe remember me mentioning a few times a while back that I ran across a post where somebody has used a device to measure the tone changes on the Sovereign to see what the deal is on that. Well, had searched many times before to find that thread and refresh my memory on it but never could find it. It's bothered me for a while and today I decided to dig again and see if I could find it using more key words of various types in that search. Finally found this puppy, so I figured I'd bump it up in the forum. I find it very interesting.

I can say of all the machines I've owned over the years, the GT has the best audio in what I was looking for. Rich and long detailed audio like the best of the old analog units, yet with the numerous tones of a Minelab.

Plus, the robust long audio not only gives me ability to pick a target's traits apart with my ears, but also helps me to notice super deep things like coins that a more processed and shorter "peep" from other units I've owned don't offer me, along with the ability to hear a high tone when sniffing around in trash that I might not otherwise notice.

When I first got the GT one of the hardest things to get used to was that coins now sounded the size of pop can lids to me, and I thought "no way this thing is going to unmask stuff with such a long audio report". Well, I can attest that I've owned or used no other machine that has found me coins in trash or iron, right up against them, as the GT has for me.

Separation or unmasking to me these days is more about a quality DD coil with good left/right separation with the DD line, as a machine can not see what a coil can't see separately. I used to believe that unmasking all came down to recovery speed and being able to lower discrimination to zero. These days, having compared numerous badly masked coins with another flagship machine on undug targets in the field, I can say the GT has saw these coins just as well from various angles around them when we compare notes before digging it, and that's even with coins so badly masked or on edge and up against iron or junk that they nulled all the way around them for both of us but one perfect tight angle of swing over them.

So long as you don't swing the coil like you are launching the golf ball, and so long as you are using a quality DD coil with a sharp DD line, such as the stock 10" Tornado but the 12x10 is even more scapel like in it's sharpness, then from what I've seen with my own eyes and ears there is more than one way to skin that unmasking cat. By lowering iron rejection you are simply lessoning the lag time between "rejection mode" and "acceptance mode" of a coin next to iron.

That is one way to improve unmasking, but by using a sharp DD line you are getting to the same place but via a different path, by "seeing" and "not seeing" that nail next to that coin, like cleanly turning the page on a book to be ready to read what is next. Using the 12x10 for the first time I swore it felt like the processor speed of my GT had been sped up. In a way it had been, because now it's got an even more sharp distinction between "seeing this" and then moving on "to see that".

More than one road to unmasking Nirvana, and a few years ago I would not have believe there was any other way than by lowering discrimination to zero or using a fast recovery speed machine. Yes, you can't swing the GT as fast as some machines, but I can say that at least with the 12x10 on it in my soil, I can swing at what you might call a medium to faster medium Whites speed and it'll still sniff out coins next to junk or iron, and also seems to improve my depth over the typical 4 second or so Minelab crawl often said to provide best depth ability on BBS and FBS units.

One of the things I like about using a slow recovery machine is the ability to linger and lurk around trash and try to fish out a high tone in there hardly moving my feet at a "dead" site as I look between the junk or iron. Also, it seems to give me the ability hover over and drink in the hardest hit possible of a super deep fringe depth target to see what it's traits are. With the fast machines I've owned I just couldn't do this, to where depth or stability or ID quality would degrade if I slowed down too much.

One way I look at it is that it's like trying to read a sign going 100mph versus doing 35. For me it's much easier to read that sign when I can slow down and take a real close look at what it has to say.

There are machines that give the ability to adjust the SAT (self adjusting threshold) on a detector to try to achieve faster and slower speeds. Problem is I found by trying to be all things, it did neither well...Too fast of a SAT speed would cost me depth or ability to lock on the target ID, and too slow would cost me stability issues and such. Far better to use a fast or slow machine built for what kind of swing you can't help but use based on your likes and dislikes when hunting. If you can't slow down and prefer to whip the coil like you are cutting weeds with a sickle, then there are machines meant for that. On the other hand, if you like a slower more "intense" look at things under the coil, then there are machines meant for that as well.

I do prefer a faster machine when covering ground in the woods scouting for any signals to indicate areas of activity. While I can sweep my GT and 12x10 very fast and still hit hard on stuff (and even harder than a slow crawl at many of my sites/soils/sands), I do like a machine for the intending purpose of a fast scouter to locate areas. The QXT Pro was great for this, and I might add another back in my line up as the "scout" unit in the woods, to where I'll then come back later with my GT and clean up the site of things the QXT couldn't find.

But, pin point mode on the GT will allow you to swing even faster than I can in disc with the 12x10 without causing issues (which is very fast then compared to the already fast(er) ability of the 12x10 in my soil in disc. I'm loving PP mode. It is so easy to hear things you're not right over with the center of the coil, where being off a bit in your "hunting for next target" swing in disc might not sound off to a target at extreme depth or shallow but in very mineralized ground.

By using PP to first easily find any such targets, I can then center right over them in disc and do the Sovereign wiggle to see what's up with them. Shocking at one mineralized beach where disc would null out or break up like iron in disc unless I got right over them, and at only 5" or so in depth, which would often turn out to be coins. This beach is loaded with microscopic iron, black sand, and other minerals. PP mode isn't just about PI-like depth, but also about the ability to cut through bad ground that even the legendary abilities of BBS in disc can have issues with. And, if BBS in disc is having trouble at such a site with coins that shallow, imagine what kind of issues other machines are having there...

 

[deepdiger60]

Its totally imposable to tell how many tones in a Sov. each person will hear different tones , depends on head phones also , and how deep a target is ,or the coil used , is it really important ? Critter do you sleep with your 12x10 under your pillow at night ?

 

[Critterhunter]

Who said you could hear all the tones? The point is that it at least *appears* by his use of an frequency analyzer that there are far more subtle changes in tone than the human ear probably could ever hear based on conductivity. That's the whole point, to show that it might have tone abilities that aren't limited by what the machine can produce, but rather by what you can hear with your ears on these BBS units.

What's it to you what I sleep with? I don't make those kinds of personal remarks when talking about a hobby just because I may not see eye to eye with people on all aspects of it. But no, I don't sleep with my 12x10. Instead, I have a shrine I place it in among lit candles when it's not in use. It's THAT good.

Always looking for the more "edgy" type of remarks to me, eh? Really see no point in such things just because we may not agree on all angles of detecting and our personal opinions or likes and dislikes in what interests us in this great hobby. Far more important things to feel strongly about in life with forums for such topics of conversation, but hey that's me...

 

[jyt2017]

I made a few vids on my phone with my GT with various targets. I go for walks now that I am laid off and listen to them over an over. Things that are easy for me, quarters laying flat, stainless washers laying flat, pennies an dimes sound the same to me and nickles sound almost like a gold ring.

One thing that I have found is that it can get hard to tell the difference between a pulltab and a small 10k ring. Haven't really tried learning all metal yet either. Work in progress.

Anyway. Hopefully it gets warmer soon....water is still chilly here.

 

[deepdiger60]

Who said you could hear all the tones? The point is that it at least *appears* by his use of an frequency analyzer that there are far more subtle changes in tone than the human ear probably could ever hear based on conductivity. That's the whole point, to show that it might have tone abilities that aren't limited by what the machine can produce, but rather by what you can hear with your ears on these BBS units.

What's it to you what I sleep with? I don't make those kinds of personal remarks when talking about a hobby just because I may not see eye to eye with people on all aspects of it. But no, I don't sleep with my 12x10. Instead, I have a shrine I place it in among lit candles when it's not in use. It's THAT good.

Always looking for the more "edgy" type of remarks to me, eh? Really see no point in such things just because we may not agree on all angles of detecting and our personal opinions or likes and dislikes in what interests us in this great hobby. Far more important things to feel strongly about in life with forums for such topics of conversation, but hey that's me...

Critter of course if a freg. analyzer is going to pick up tones we cant hear and if the Sovereign can make those tones don't you think its hard enough to decipher what tones we can hear ,some people say they can hear many tones on different targets and some say just 2 or 3 overall the standard low and high , i been using my BW HP,s for 4 years and i am very used to the sounds the Sov gives but after i recently got my Skullies its a whole different world of sounds that i have to get used to now maybe that's a good thing
And that's funny you have a Shrine for the 12x10 LOL . i don't criticize your writings Critter but you gotta admit you do have a obsession for that coil more then most , and most of your understanding of this hobby is a benefit to the hobby Jim

 

[deepdiger60]

I made a few vids on my phone with my GT with various targets. I go for walks now that I am laid off and listen to them over an over. Things that are easy for me, quarters laying flat, stainless washers laying flat, pennies an dimes sound the same to me and nickles sound almost like a gold ring.

One thing that I have found is that it can get hard to tell the difference between a pulltab and a small 10k ring. Haven't really tried learning all metal yet either. Work in progress.

Anyway. Hopefully it gets warmer soon....water is still chilly here.

Joe the other day i was hitting a old park my first taget was a silver dime i knew that right away yea i gotta 180 meter that sure helps comfirm it was bewteen the 2 i knew it was silver it has the sweeter high tone compared to a clad dime ,and your right about nickles and gold rings pulltab,s can fool you not so easy to decifer thats why we dig so many lol . as far as ocean water here you need a dry suit still very cold . GL Jim

 

[OldBeechnut]

There are more tones then all the words critter can type in a day.

 

[GeorgeinSC]

I am sure that the GT puts out a whole lot of tones that I can not hear. I just got back home from seeing the audiologist at Fort Jackson in Columbia SC. She tested my hearing again and said "You have more loss overall". My hearing aids are maxed out on five of the eight channels that they operate on. Now if I need to hear better or have any problems with the ones that I am currently using it means that I am going to have to spring for new ones that will put out even more noise. I have been using my GT for about 9 months and have gotten to the point that when the coil passes over a deep dime or quarter I hear that high pitch immediately. Yesterday afternoon I dug a clad dime at a measured 8 inches in wet ground. All I got from it was that high pitch. It never read very high on my meter even when I wiggled the heck out of the coil. I was able to pinpoint with no problem but was beginning to doubt what I had heard before I found the rascal. I love the tones that the GT makes when it passes over a piece of Silver. I just dont find enough silver. But it is also deadly on Clad.

 

[BHNugget]

There are more tones then all the words critter can type in a day.

Are you sure?

 

[bootyhoundpa]

ther are only 2 tones... iron and everything else....

 

[Critterhunter]

I make no excuses for being able to type or read fast, so no...It probably doesn't have as many tone variations as words I can type in a day, as fantastic as the detailed audio on the Sovereign is. Right back at ya...

Be nice if a thread stuck to the subject at hand without personal snubs. What does any of this have to do with exploring the audio potential of these BBS units? If I wanted to roll that way I've got plenty in the hopper for several, but not my bag when it comes to the topic of detecting. I reverse such things for other far more important matters in life. Often doing otherwise shows rather poor motivations IMO, which I don't feel this is the proper place to spell out, and so I won't...

So if anybody has anything useful to say about the audio tone variability of the BBS units, and beliefs or disbeliefs in what he appears to have found by analyzing it, I'd like to hear views on that.

I can say that I'm well able to hear the distinct lower tone of nickels versus tabs even without referencing the meter, as well as most foil and other low conductors versus nickels. Silver appears to have a somewhat sweeter sound to it in certain ways than clad, but I can't always hear that and rely on the meter and how quick it jumps up to 180 to confirm my suspicions, but also have to contrast that to how deep the target sounds, as silver at depth can have issues with it's climb rate.

Wheats tend to linger for me in the 178 or 179 area even if they do make it to 180 with enough wiggle work. Clad quarters are more broad in their response even though they can jump up to 180 rather quick. Hardest for me is telling clad dimes from wheats. Their VDI response is very similar in how slow they get to 180, but often but the somewhat more mellow tone of a wheat I can sometimes gleam a hint to that versus clad.

George, another option for you might be to adjust the tone pot inside the Sovereign to either a higher or lower total scaling of target responses, based on your hearing abilities. If you have high or low frequency nerve damage, moving the span of tones up or down in pitch might help. I have been thinking about adding a piggyback external POT control to the GT for such a thing, where I could make say low or mid conductors more easy to hear when after those, and also the same for silver when after that.

I was used to a somewhat slightly higher pitch for silver on my QXT and it took me a while to adjust to the slightly lower tone of the GT on those, but now that I've trained my ears to it I have put the idea on the back burner for now. If I do go that route, I plan to mark the external piggy back POT control (with the internal one untouched from the factory) to presets of "stock", "low/mid conductor tone mode", and "old coin mode".

Then I'd be able to adjust it to my liking from there for different forms of hunting. Not sure it would offer me any advantage, as I can seem to hear all the important low to mid to high tone separations fairly well. The pitch of silver on the GT is so close to what it was on my QXT anyway that there probably wouldn't be much point to it. Maybe with a 2nd older model Sovereign in my line up I might experiement on that unit with such things.

 

[BHNugget]

Be nice if a thread stuck to the subject at hand without personal snubs.

Dont believe anything was meant as a snub, just light humor.

 

[OldBeechnut]

Yes, just messing with you my friend, I'm jealous I can type as fast.