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Great, It's The Cops...What Am I Going To Do Now?

That is the right attitude and I have business cards made up with all the information they need to get in touch it they need help searching for evidence. Cops and city employees are you friends, get to know them.
 
I had a police officer watch me one day , for about thirty minutes. It made me slightly nervous. I dug each target like I was giving a seminar.Doing everything slowly.
 
I have always been in the cautious camp too. When a cop parks and sits in sight swing and only pickup very near surface coins. Somebody might have molested the area last week and they were on guard to see ANY real digging. There was this one time that a cop parked when I was out it a vast area of a small city park. It was ironic timing, because I found a sizeable unfilled hole someone had left before I noticed them, and had finished filling it best I could(it was not filled all in when I was done, it was that bad.) I wondered, "Reckon they only saw me filling in the hole and thinks I dug it?" I spent maybe 10 minutes swinging, passed some targets, and meandered to the central part of the park about 100 yards away. I caught something out the corner of my eye behind me, and the cop car had managed somehow to re-park in a tough parking spot inside the small area I was now in, like a stalker. They had to cross grass in the car to get there. I struck up a conversation with some locals for 10 minutes, and left without swinging anymore.

I just don't care for confrontation. Cops can be friends, but they can be unfriendly too. I have waited them out several times but I've also hunted through at times. I let my gut feelings tell me the difference. A squad car simple has a different behavior IMO when they are in stalk mode. As far as no laws against detecting...almost every park and public access spot had verbage on the books about damaging the landscape in any way. Any cop can always fall back on this in the end. jm2c. martin
 
"I don't have anything against cops...I just like it better when they're not around" is one of my favorite lines from the movie Bar Fly.
Jim
 
Martin,

I agree with you on this. in my locality it is plainly written in the code of ordinances. I believe it is there just like you state, so the police will have something on the "books" if they see some clown tearing the local park up or digging up flowers and shubbery. However, IF they see that I am a responsible & respectful detectorist (which I always am) they do not bother me and never have. let's look at the reality of things in city parks all around the country - people think they can go into them and 4 wheel across the lawns and pull "hole shots" or the little old lady or man that wants to take home some of those nice flowers planted along the wall, or the fact the city just laid down 4 tons of nice gravel for a parking area and some person wants to beautify their own yard with them etc etc. It is clearly a judgement call upon my local authority to tell me I have to stop and very easy for them to do so with this ordinance in place. I am sure if the maintenance crew showed up one morning to see holes with dirt and grass flung all over the place they would give word to the police dept. Then this ordinance can instantly be enforced. What works for me: I acknowledge the police when they are sitting there (nod of the head) to defuse any bad thoughts they may be running through the officer's mind of who I am. I feel if they see I am friendly and outgoing and not trying to "cover up" what I am obviously doing, I feel that puts their guard down somewhat. All it takes sometimes is a bad attitude toward authority for them to take action. If I feel I have to "sneak" around in the place I want to detect, then I am not going there - period. Like a job interview, we only have those first few moments to make an impression upon authority. At least this is how I feel about police or other authority figures. - HH to all - Jim

My city ordinance:
Excavation. No person shall remove or dig up any dirt, stones, rock or anything whatsoever; make any excavation, quarry any stone, or lay or set off any blast, or cause or assist in doing any of such things, within any park.
Habitat preservation. No person shall disturb or modify woodlands, streams, stream banks, meadows, ponds, lakes or other natural areas within a park, or walk among or across any flower garden, shrubs or other plantings.
Encroachments. No person shall in any way alter, damage, remove or deface any facility, feature, vegetation, man-made object or equipment in a park; nor erect or store personal property, plant vegetation or deposit debris or refuse in a park or extend any use on adjacent property to park property.


5900_XL-1 said:
As far as no laws against detecting...almost every park and public access spot had verbage on the books about damaging the landscape in any way. Any cop can always fall back on this in the end. jm2c. martin
 
Larry, I challenge you to tell us forumites a single turfed park, in the entire USA, where it is "legal" to "dig". Of COURSE every park in the USA has verbage against "defacement" or "alterations" or "digging". You can't show me a park where it is legal. And even if you had some city personell to tell you "Ok, as long as you cover it back up with no trace", I can gaurantee you that this is simply some city personell who is allowing you to break the law. Because I gaurantee you, the verbage is there, somewhere, to prohibit vandalism and so forth.

But you should KNOW that ALL those types verbage inherently implies the end result. So that, technically, if you leave the area exactly as you found it, then presto, you have not "altered" or "defaced" anything, now have you?? The problem, is the temporary interim evil process. And THAT'S where the cat & mouse game that critterhunter spoke of applies.

I know you think this is "sneaky" or "illegal", but we ALL (yes, you too!) practice it, to some degree. For example: If you show up at your favorite park to hunt one day, where you are convinced it's "legal". You show up, and see a banner hung between two trees that says "Welcome to the Annual Convention of Purist Archies", and you can see that a park event is hosting an archie convention. You tell me: Is this a good time for you to go, or .......... should you be a little more frickin' discreet and go somewhere else for that day? Or let's take nose picking: It may be legal, but ....... don't you practice a little discretion and don't do it when busy-bodies are watching? :rolleyes: It's nothing but common sense. There probably is nothing *specific" in critter-hunters city saying "no metal detecting". He's only trying to keep people from morphing OTHER stuff to apply.

So it has little to do with "legal" or not, it's simple discretion to NOT KICK A HORNET'S NEST.

If those non-alteration/digging clauses really bother you that much, then perhaps you've picked the wrong hobby??
 
Interesting story about the ring and the confiscation dirt-digger. A lot of md'rs (who are so gung-ho on thinking they can obey all laws in this hobby, to the most technical definitions), don't realize that everytime they pocket a valuable find (ring, watch, bracelet, etc...) over a certain value, they are breaking their state's lost & found laws. Each state has a threshold value of something like $50, or $100, or $200, in which if you find something over that value threshold, you have to turn it in to the police for them to hold for proper attempts to re-unite with the owner. Notice the law doesn't give you the liberty to guess WHEN something was lost (ie.: a ring that is multiple inches deep in a park, evidencing having been there a long time), nor does it tell HOW something is valued (ie.: the intrinsic melt value, verses the value someone paid new when in the jewelry story counter). These laws have their genesis llllooonggg ago, in wandering cattle laws (so you don't simply keep your neighbors cow that got through the fence and say "I found it", etc....).
 
Here's another example Larry, to show you that you are no different, and know how to use common sense, good timing, discretion, etc...: I presume you don't break laws when driving, right? (speeding, sloppy lane changes, using your blinker, etc...). But let me ask you this: If you're driving down the freeway, and spot a highway patrol following you somewhere behind, what's your immediate knee-jerk reaction?? You look down at your speedometer, right? And if you (gasp) had been going a few miles per hour over, what do you do? You slow down, right? And when you change lanes, you are SURE to use your blinkers, right?

So you see, we ALL have a little of our "Sunday best" put on when busy-bodies are watching. NO one goes begging for scrutiny, kicking hornet's nests, etc.... You are no different. You TOO would not parade your digger in front of someone you perceived *might* be a killjoy. So when you see someone come on the forums saying they pick "off low-traffic times" and avoid digging when lookie-lous are present, is simple common sense, and has little to do with laws, legalities, etc..... Unless, as I say, you really want to get technical, and in that case, this hobby is simply not for you (unless you want to hunt only private property with permission, or pick up modern low value coins off the top of the ground, etc....)
 
Tom, I thank you for your defense of my stance on things and your excellent comparison stories. People, please...Keep in mind that I'm just trying to avoid conflict for the good of the hobby. It's not like I'm doing something "illegal" like has been implied. If I were then I would deserve any heat in that respect. But yes, as he said just about EVERY park I've ever checked the regulations on has wording about "disturbing vegetation" that is so vaguely worded that it could easily be used as reason to kick you out or worse even fine you or confiscate your detector if they saw you digging. That's why I chose to "pick my nose", so to speak, when nobody is watching. As he said, it may not be illegal to pick your nose but most people have enough common sense not to do it in front of others for fear of the reaction (or overreaction, which in the case of digging could mean any number of things in terms of what the police may or may not do).

I'm just modest that way, and for good reason. Based on your experiences over your life you may be a little more bold than others because you haven't had experiences that taught you that discretion was the better part of valour. For instance, I haven't had such good luck in that respect, and have a small story which is just one of many that has taught me to be modest about my activities.

I build and fly electric RC aircraft as another one of my hobbies. One day a friend told me to build a slope soarer (a plane without an engine, but still having servo controls and a receiver for operating the plane in flight), as he has a great location they've been using for years to slope soar at. Slope soaring involves riding the up draft of wind bowing across a cliff or a hill. You "ride" this uplift of wind for lift, and then can fly away from the hill and do circuits, but are required to return to that hill over and over to regain height when you start getting too low.

When we arrived at the site, which was a lot behind a large shopping plaza, there was an empty dirt lot behind this plaza that butted up against a steep drop into a valley...Which is owned by the park system by the way. As we parked I noted a cop car off in the distance and mentioned to my friend that we had better wait until he leaves before breaking out our planes. My friend said not to worry, as cops have often come to watch them fly at this place over the years. I tried to explain that he didn't have me along and that he didn't know the kind of luck I tended to gather. He laughed and said "It's not like you have a dark cloud that follows you around."

Well, needless to say after the planes were airborne the cop quickly drove over to us and told us we had to leave. He said technically we are not in the park system, even though that was the area we were flying over, and that the ground we were standing on was city owned and thus they don't condone this kind of activity due to potential risk to others. Just like a cop who sees you metal detecting can say...That you are putting others at potential risk due to digging holes.

As we packed up to leave my friend leaned over to me and said "You know...You really do have a dark cloud following you around." and we both laughed.

So there's just one reason why I take the modest/avoid asking for problems approach. On the other hand, I do hunt a mowed field behind an old school, and this field is right up against the police station. Years ago when I first was brought there by my friends they assured me that the cops there have never given them a problem with digging, so I had no problem showing that kind of behaviour to them as they constantly went in and out of the building. I've hunted there for years and not once have they even given me a second look.

Although, we all know that the "priorities" of police from one city to the other can vary wildly based on just what kind of crime they are dealing with, or whether it's a more "quiet" town where they often have to find whatever they can to justify to their supervisor what they've been doing all day.

I just say why test just how far you can go when you don't know where some draw the limits. This park I'm hunting now is a few cities over from me, and from what I've heard their police can sort of be real hard cases about what kind of things they let people get away with in those parts. That's why I take the "retreat and don't confront" approach to hunting there. It's too good of a spot to risk rolling the dice like that on.
 
Oh, and I might also add that I've seen some rather badly dug plugs at this park left by other detectorists in just the past month. While I did my best to repair them, some are just beyond repair in terms of hiding them well. For that reason alone I hesitate to dig in front of the police there, as the next thing I know they could make me financially responsible for say re-turfing the area. That's the kind of thing that my imagination runs wild with, based on my prior "bad luck" in terms of what life's past lessons has taught me. I almost hate to hunt there knowing such ugly plugs are present in the area for that very reason, and for sure do not want the cops to see me in the act of digging because of that. They might easily be looking for the person responsible, and as long as they don't see me committing the act of digging there is now way they can pin the other person's actions on me.
 
I think the police have better things to do than watch a geezer with a metal detector. Most of the ones I have seen "watching" me have in actuality been doing their "paperwork" or just taking a break. I can't imagine a cop waiting to ambush one of us the minute we press our digger into the soil. That sure would be the catch-of-the-day for a cop wanting to impress his commander with his crime fighting skills wouldn't it.

No offense intended, but maybe you're being paranoid.
 
Paranoid? As Tom said, do you look down at your speedometer when driving on the highway so that the cop sitting there has no reason to pull you over? I would say that could also be as easily classified as "paranoia" to some people. In truth (having two friends who are cops) they usually don't mind if you are going 5 or 6 miles over the speed limit. However, there's that fine line when the speed is just too fast and they decide to do something about it. How do you know where to draw that line in terms of what a cop might react to?

I prefer the the term "hedging my bets", in that I don't want to give them any reason to have a problem with me. It's not just a "do your duty" type of thing in terms of what if anything the cop decides to do. In today's age of lawsuits people will sue for anything, and if somebody witnessed a cop simply watching me dig plugs and somebody then tripped over one of them, that person could then easily sue that cop or the city for being delinquent in their duties to protect the public's safety. It's just that simple.

That's why if a person ever was to confront me in a park about detecting there I'll just pack up and leave without trying to argue my rights. There's a good chance that arguing will only result in them getting even more angry and prompt them to call the cops. Think about it. How many times do you actually ever win an argument, let alone one with a complete stranger?

Following the above logic, if I was a cop looking to cover my but I'd be more inclined to ask the guy detecting to leave...Because if somebody gets hurt by tripping over a bad plug that cop or the city could potentially be sued for failing to act. I'd just leave before it comes to the point of the police being called, and show back up on another day because I'll probably never see that person again. Further, if the police do get involved and they tell you to leave then you no longer have an excuse if they show up another day and see you once again detecting. That's when a "warning" can turn into a ticket.

Having two friends who are cops I can tell you that this mindset is VERY much present in their thoughts whenever they deal with the public. One friend told me of a Vietnam vet he pulled over for a traffic violation and he could smell alcohol on his breath. It was obvious that this man had medical issues that may or may not have effected his ability to do the DUI coordination tests to determine if he was in fact drunk, but he had no choice to lean on the side of caution and arrest him for a DUI even though in conversation he didn't really seem to be intoxicated. I asked him why he just didn't allow him to be picked up by a family member at the site and the car left at the location. He said that if that man did go back out after going home and ended up getting into an auto accident he could easily be sued over the matter.

Still yet, if you watch these cops shows on TV they almost always make one person leave a residence if the two drunk individuals have been arguing...Even if there has been no violence...Because if the cop lets both stay and they later end up getting in a physical fight or worse somebody dies that officer has the potential for being sued for not resolving the potential threat in the first place.

That's why these liability issues weigh heavily on the police's shoulders, and makes them more prone to resolve any form of conflict, even if that's just some nosey person who called to report you detecting "their" park. Should something happen it could all fall on the officer who was sent to resolve the situation but didn't make you leave. It's also in the cop's best interest to make you leave in order to pacify the person who called, because if he doesn't kick you out and that person once again calls the police station to further complain his supervisor might ask him why he didn't resolve that call the first time he was there. It's not so much about people's rights. They really don't care what kinds of rights you have in terms of activities. They simply want to get the situation ended, and that often means pacifying the party who is doing all the complaining.
 
I'm not sure I follow the "drinking and driving" or "drunk while arguing" analogies and their relationship to one of us geezers in the park with a metal detector.

And yes, JMHO, but I think it is paranoid to think the cops are playing cat-and-mouse with you and strategically parking to spy on you or sneaking up on you to "catch" you doing something wrong. Surely they have better things to do. Why wouldn't they just save time and come right up to you and ask what you are doing? Then they can either tell you to either stop or go on about your business. I'm pretty sure they aren't that obsessively focused just on you.

I too have many active and retired friends in police work. My father-in-law was a police chief and member of the FBI for years. I can't imagine any of them wasting their time in surveillance of me as I metal detect....unless I am acting suspicious or illegally in a restricted area, etc. The only metal detecting "stings" I have heard of occur in restricted historic sites, such as off limit battlegrounds or cemeteries, where knuckleheads are purposely stealing relics and artifacts. Do some police mess with you?.....Sure. If you act like a jerk they will treat you like a jerk.

How can you have fun pursuing this great hobby if you have so many fears about all the what ifs that maybe-might-could happen. If Nervous Nelly behind the lace curtains calls the police on you the cops will let you know.....there isn't anything you can do about that. Just get out there, follow our code of ethics, and enjoy yourself.:detecting:
 
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