GOLDEN

[redsumit]

ok, ive read alot of your post and u give some good info and i appreciate it, but there are some things im not understanding. now aside from ground mineralization (because your ground is obviously different from mine) now the dilemma i have is weather in all metal or coin/jewelry mode. in coin/jewelry mode i get a high tone and number for that matter but i will put it in all metal mode and it changes too a low tone n number. its as if it is a big chunk of iron or something like that close enuff 2 the coil that "bleeds thru" (thats what i call it) as a coin. BUT some people say if u get a low tone n number with a high tone n number it is iron with a coin or something good. BUT heres the problem i have, i will dig it up find the iron but nothing that gave a high tone indication. i will then run the disk ALL around the area looking for that high tone and come up with nothing. it was the iron i found. weather it was coin/jewelry mode or all metal mode, doesnt matter which. i also know that when you dig something out the ground you disturb the halo effect, which makes me think thats why the "possible" coin reading doesnt come back on MD. so whats going on here? how do i know when to dig? also they say make a test garden, well thats fine BUT if i throw a coin on the ground it picks it up. if i bury that same coin 2 or 3 inches down, its gone. i cant find it with quattro. i have 2 get the wifes xterra 30 2 find it. now i asked this question b4 and was told (not by u or any1 else in here) that it doesnt work all that well on freshly buried coins and besides why would i want 2 find new coins anyways. well thats fine and dandy but am i suppose 2 make a test garden and come back in 100 years. lol. and 1 more thing, does the platypus coil perform alot better than the stock 10.5? now im into ATV's and know that after market stuff usually is better than stock but there is also hype out there. is this coil better or is it just hype? id love 2 get a coil that performs better than the stock. personally i think stock is, i wont say junk, but does add a bit of confusion 2 the equation. not as clear in telling me whats really going on. like a politician. lol. thank u very much

 

[John (Australia)]

Hello Redsumit, I am jumping in on Golden's question here but in case you haven't seen a Platypus review this is a link to one http://www.goldbummin.com/plat.htm
Rusty iron will leach into the soil and give off a high tone, if you search on Goggle for words associated with rusty iron, high tone, detector etc you will find that this is a problem with a wide range of makes of detector. Other than getting to know your detector through hours of use all you can do is class the target as trash if the id is not stable from all directions. I use a Coiltek joey coil myself which is smaller than the Platypus and would only go back to the stock coil if i was detecting in or near water as the joey is not waterproof.
It seems strange that you can't find a new coin only 3 inches deep. Find an area you are sure has no metal buried in it, bury your new coin then in all metal with Ferrous mode selected and a sensitivity of about 12 swing the coil over the coin. If it doesn't Id then I would say there is a problem somewhere. If it does Id then try different swing speeds till you find out the speed that the coin disappears so you know how slow to go.
John

 

[redsumit]

hey john. ive read that article about platypus coil b4. now u say if it still cant pick up the coin, i just buried, there is something wrong. what r u referring 2 as the problem? broken detector? or something other than the MD? ok also u say if the signal isnt consistent in all directions, but isnt it also possible 2 get a coin deep enuff on its side that doesnt always give a consistent signal...............so how do i tell the difference between that and iron leaching in the ground? thanx

 

[backslyder]

Ok, redsumit, I feel "guilty", responding here, because you really kind of addressd this to Golden, but I just couldn't stand, not to respond, in case Golden is busy for a few days. (Golden forgive me here, and I hope I'm right on my response):sad::| If I'm not mistaken, and I'd check the owners manual and Andy Sabisches book on this one to be sure, because I don't have my book near by, here's the delema on the first part of your email. I re-read your post here and noticed that you were changing from Coin and jewlery mode to all metal mode. If I'm not mistaken, those two modes have different tone settings. I think the Coin and jewlery has ferrous tone and all metal has conductive, but at any rate, IF THEY'RE DIFFERENT TONE SETTINGS, then that's the problem on the low and high tone problem. As far as I can remember, ferrous tone setting gives you a hight pitched tone on the "good stuff", like a 34 or so reading which is highly conductive and a low tone on iron. If your in conductive tone like I think is standard for all metal, your gonna get just the opposite. Again, check in Andy's book, but I know they're different in pitch, but......the good news is you can set the All metal for ferrous or conductive tone, whichever you prefer through a process called cross-saving, which is discussed in Andy's book. This would explain why in coin and jewlery you got that high pitched tone, and when you switched to all metal, it became a low pitched tone, but if you got a high pitched tone in ferrous mode, it should have been a higher conductive item like a penny or dime or aluminum or something like that, not iron.
As far as burring new coins, you should be able to pick up a newley burried coin at at least 5 inches deep, or something is wrong. I burried some new coins in the sand at the beach one day, and was able to pick them up at about 6 to 8 inches deep. If you can't even pick them up at 3 or 4 inches, somehing is worng with your detector or your settings on the detector. Marc.

 

[redsumit]

thats ok marc i dont have a bounty out on u for replying. actually it doesnt matter who replies. but u have something reversed. coin n jewelry has a conductive tone while all metal has the lower ferrous tones. but even all metal mode can be cross saved to have the high cond tones. BUT if in all metal mode with the ferrous tone and u run across a coin u will get the same high tone and number that u would in coin n jewelry. thats why they say run in all metal mode and YOU do the discriminating when MDing.

 

[John (Australia)]

If you can't pick the coin up with the settings etc in my last post and you are using no discrimination then I would say there is a problem with the coil or detector. Saying that I am assuming you have checked to make sure between the coil and cover is clean, the coil cable is connected to the control box properly, the ground is not naturally noisy ground and there were no other signals in the ground before burying the coin (this would have had to be checked with your wife's detector probably) and there are no large metal fences or sheds within 3 feet of the coin. As far as the inconsistent signals go all I can offer is if the digging is easy going dig those you consider might be good targets.
John

 

[backslyder]

Sorry redsumit, I was afraid I might have had the two tone settings reversed on that. Unfortunatly my detector is in the pawn shop right now, and I can't find Andy's book to look up what your talking about, so I'm gonna "shut my mouth" for now, and wait till I get the detector back or find the book. I've done extensive study on this, but honest to God, I forgot a lot of it, so forgive me on that. I just thought that one of the settings (either ferrous or conductive) gave you a high tone on the coins, and one of them gave you a lower tone, but I could be dead wrong on that, so I'm gonna "back pedal" for now, and maybe someone else can comment on that. I guess what your saying, is in All Metal mode, your gonna get a high tone on any of the more higher conductive coins like a penny or a dime or quarter, but because it's All Metal Mode, your gonna hear everything with no discrimination. Marc.

 

[Golden]

i also know that when you dig something out the ground you disturb the halo effect, which makes me think thats why the "possible" coin reading doesnt come back on MD. so whats going on here? how do i know when to dig? also they say make a test garden, well thats fine BUT if i throw a coin on the ground it picks it up. if i bury that same coin 2 or 3 inches down, its gone. i cant find it with quattro.


Hello Redsummit, Marc hit the nail on the head when he said I might be busy working, so sorry about not getting back sooner to you! I'm a shift worker, and been flat out all week, other than last Friday when I went out metal detecting, and tommorrow I'm going out again. Yippee!!!!
Anyway, I reckon the guys here pretty much answered your question. You caught my attention on an interesting statement you said about how when you get a halo effect, then disturb the ground, you break the effect, and it's so true. I don't think anyone has actually made that statement before here. I've found that even when I've located a target and taken it out of the ground, sometimes the detector will read a faint iffy signal that then disappears, from the remnants of the material still left in the ground of the relic, etc, that was initially dug out.
Also, a test garden is an excellent way to learn to locate and separate targets while sweeping for them, but you do need to drop your sensitivity down to around 6 or 8 if the targets are only a few inches deep. Higher sensitivity can cause the detector to read everything else around in the ground, except the targets closest to the surface, hence it's a good idea to lower or increase your sense according to the depth you want to go in hunting those targets. So try your test garden and drop your sense right back to 6 or 8, even try as low as 4. You should be able to read the targets then. lots of people hunt with low sense in parks and find a heap of coins that are from a few inches to just below surface depth.
Golden

 

[redsumit]

hello golden. well i was just playing w/ MD IN my house,air testing, ( surrounded by computer and other crap lol) but what i got with a piece of flat iron about 4"X3", on all metal mode, sensitivity at 10, and 10.5 coil was a high tone and number of about 32-34 and could not shake it. meaning all it wants 2 do is read like a coin even at a foot or more down. but on edge it reads like iron. now this baffles me as to how do i know when 2 dig. yes i know dig everything but theres gotta be a point when u move past digging everything 2 where u become efficient enuff 2 not have 2 do this, and this is what im shooting for. interesting enuff 2 me was just rust alone from that piece wasnt picked up by the MD. and i ground off all rust on piece and still showed up with same numbers. still just trying 2 figure out if i need more refinment or if theres something wrong with MD. now as far as u workin hey no problem its not like i need the info rite then and there. its snowy and cold here in Pennsylvania anyways. cant do much but research this time of year here. but do appreciate any info. i dont have any1 here in my area that has a quattro to show me whats goin on with this thing lol. so thanks again

 

[redsumit]

hey marc, yes in all metal mode there is no discrimination at all. so what happens is it doesn't null out because you've opened it (quattro) up to everything thats in the ground. but the trick is that YOU are the 1 doing the discriminating, but u have 2 know what certain metals have what kind of tone and number in order to want 2 dig it up. -10 low tone is just iron. +38 high tone is quarter and so on. but this mode (all metal) is noisy and chirps and beeps worse than a flock of birds. but u can turn the volume down on detector (external speaker) but there are other factors that can effect this mode. corroded quarter on edge will read completely different, although i dont know what that would be. in a way the all metal mode makes it easier and u wont miss anything, BUT u gotta know ur detector. hope this helps.

 

[John (Australia)]

Redsumit I forgot to mention that large steel or iron objects give high number readouts and it seems the piece flat iron you are testing is large enough to do that. The same thing happens if you detect too close to a galvanised iron fence or shed or even a vehicle.
John

 

[redsumit]

ok john why does it do that.....and how do i tell the difference btween that and coins?

 

[John (Australia)]

I can't remember were I read an explanation on this but you should get answers from the Minelab site, the "contact us" section is where you can ask questions and in my experience they answered quickly. With suspect objects I raise the coil and if the signal is still there and the coil over 5 inches above the ground it is not a coin sized object, unless it is almost on the surface. A quick probe with a screwdriver can answer this question and if no coin is found just under the surface I move on, unless it is a place I am planning to hunt time and again, then I remove trash so it is easier next time I visit hoping the crop of coins has grown again.
John

 

[redsumit]

found iron. 2 in morning tired, me sleepy gnite zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Golden]

[quote redsumit]found iron. 2 in morning tired, me sleepy gnite zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz[/quote]


Two in the morning detecting???!!! You must be keen Redsummit!!!! I think I'd have to keep my eyes open with match sticks!
Golden

 

[jjwest]

What I've learned is that the coil has a what I call a secondary magnetic field that gives me a high reading and sound when it is about a foot or so from a chain link fence or the wall of a building(re-bar in it). I think this secondary field confuses the Quattros computer. These are obvious targets and it can understood what is happening. What has screwed me up several times is when a large piece of ferrous metal is in the ground hidden and I am getting a good sound and number a foot away from the hidden piece of large metal. Thinking there is a good target under my coil but where is it? After swinging the coil in different and wider directions and finally getting a true ferrous reading from the large piece of metal because the primary magnetic field of the coil was now over the large buried metal. Coins give odd sounds and readings also if they are just off the edge of the coil. Then when the coil is directly over them the true sound and reading is given. I do not think this is unique to the Quattro. I use a White's DFX also and it reacts the same to large pieces of metal nearby interfering with the coils secondary magnetic field.

 

[redsumit]

wow jj thats a mouthfull but good 2 know thanks.............golden i wasnt out 2 in the morning MDing i was just tired and speaking in some kind of 4.6 phase underverse language coming in from capt Blipto.............something about his intergalactic space weasel gettin out of the cage and runnin off to Cligone 7. lol. yeah something like that

 

[Golden]

[quote redsumit]wow jj thats a mouthfull but good 2 know thanks.............golden i wasnt out 2 in the morning MDing i was just tired and speaking in some kind of 4.6 phase underverse language coming in from capt Blipto.............something about his intergalactic space weasel gettin out of the cage and runnin off to Cligone 7. lol. yeah something like that[/quote]

Well, I'm not entirely sure what you meant: "4.6 phase underverse language from Capt Blipto????" Is that a bit like flux capacitors and time travel? About the only thing I can relate to is Stargate, which I love watching. Other than that, you've lost me. I just thought you were really keen on metal detecting, thought I was the only one obsessed with it.

 

[redsumit]

hey golden this summer id like 2 do that. go out at nite n MD but rite now its been 10 degrees at nite and i aint doin that. but yes i am obsessed with finding the past. matter of fact ill sell my quattro for 5 cents when they invent the time machine. wont need MD then lol .....just need 2 find a light that will mount 2 quattro so i can see screen

 

[backslyder]

Another thing that I was thinking of while reading the part about "How do you tell if it's a large object or a fence or somehting, versus a coin or ring". I read something one time in a Charles Garret book about kind of "feeling" or sensing the size and even shape of a larger object, just by the "edges" of where the signal dies out or starts again. By swinging back and forth over an object, of course if the tone target signal never dies out, you can almost be sure its a large object or your too close, or some other interference. I kind of go around the edge of an object sometimes, and you know if it's 5 or 6 inches long by the way the signal goes on and off, it's likely to be a soda can or something. Marc.