Fors Core -(Discrimination?)

[Southwind]

but your going to dig alot of trash to get them just like the Deus.

Personally I've found the Deus to be quite accurate in ID'ing down to about 6-7". For the really deep stuff I used the E-Trac more often.

The I'd is spectacular compared to an Etrac and that's saying a lot.

So how many target ID segments does it have? The number of target segments correlates to how precise a detector can get and generally more segments = more accuracy. The E-Trac has 1750 target ID segments and the Deus has 100. The advantage of the E-Trac is the ability to turn on or off each 1750 segments allowing for a very customized discrimination pattern. And really it is about usable target ID segments. The E-Trac boosts 1750 segments when actually most are in the ferrous range and not that useful. The E-Trac has 50 in the conductive range.

 

[sprchng]

The nuances are what counts with tHis machine. Great nuances Mind you. Let the machine teach you what it can do. Inevitably to begin with you will dig a lot of stuff. The I'd is spectacular compared to an Etrac and that's saying a lot.

The etrac has 30 tones not to mention adjustments for threshold pitch , volume gain . volume limits and ferrous or conductive tones and you're going to tell me the CoRe has better audio ID with 3 tones? That's an awful lot of "nuances" to demonstrate in your video.

I'll wait for the movie...............

 

[JFlynn]

Well I ran an ETrac for almost 4 years exclusively when they came out. Loved that machine just it did not like the amount of iron we have around here in Georgia. Really what happened was I changed the places I detected from parks and such to old torn down house places. Love that ETrac orchestra for the ears when detecting. This machine modulates so much like the ETrac its not funny. I'm not into the technical mumbo jumbo I just tell and use what works. The ETrac did a lot of blending causing the ID to skew one way or another until or if you could isolate the target real well. I'm sure the difference has to be the coils or better yet I really can't pinpoint it, but the CoRe locks like a safe door onto a target and ID's it very very well and it has to be because of how well it is able to slice out that little sliver in between other metals in and around the target. Like I said I've never ran anything so simple but yet so potent, my finds tell the story and have soared in the heavy trash.

 

[OregonGregg]

How funny, looks like this thread took a 90 degree turn some where and I guess I'm partly to blame any how back to the original question about adjusting the discrimination. from what I get is that you can. We call it discrimination and on the Fors CoRe I believe they call it ID Masking. I got this from pg.11 of the owners manual :

ID MASKING:
When the search coil passes over a target, if the target signal is strong enough, a 2-digit
target ID will be displayed on the numeric display as well as the LCD panel. Target ID ranges
from 0 to 99. Target ID is a number produced by the detector based on a target's
conductivity and it gives you an idea about what the target may be.
ID Masking is the ability of the detector to ignore (not produce a warning tone or ID)
unwanted targets. It provides ease of use by rejecting mineralized rocks (hot rocks) and
metals such as iron and foil.



And I see from vids etc that it looks as if you can adjust the ID Masking. I think when you turn the machine on and depending on what mode, it is preset but can also be adjusted as well to suit your needs.
Any you people that actually do have one in hand maybe you can chime in on this.

 

[Southwind]

I'd be interested in know if it has a simple discrimination level, like the Compadre, that you turn to a level where it excepts everything above the level and masks everything below it or can you adjust each VDI number to be excepted or rejected individually Or a notching system. The Deus has discrimination and 3 separate adjustable notches.

 

[steve herschbach]

It actually is pretty simple.

You have a true all metal mode that has no discrimination control. There is no variable discrimination in this mode but the on screen target id does kick in for targets in disc range. Because all metal reaches deeper than disc modes the deeper targets eill give an audio but no on screen disc. This is how you locate deep targets beyond what a disc mode can do.

Then you have preset tone modes, either two tones or three tones. In two tone mode it is low tone ferrous and medium tone non-ferrous. Three tone mode adds a high tone for targets zinc penny and higher.

In both the disc modes you have a variable control called ID Mask. It is just like the control on a single knob disc machine, up and down with anything below the setting rejected. This is on top of and in addition to the tones. However, ID Mask is not like on most detectors where it starts at iron and goes up. It is like the Teknetics T2 in that it starts all the way down in the ground range and goes up from there. This is important because many detectors cannot be set for a true "zero disc" mode but always have a little iron disc bout in even at minimal settings. The FORS are like other Euro machines that let you fine tune the ferrous responses for extracting targets out of thick ferrous trash. This combined with the small coil makes it deadly in ferrous trash.

If you want you can run ID Mask very high to eliminate foil or aluminum or whatever on the high end, but like other machines you will lose nickels if you go too high. There is no notch function. The best way to proceed there is use three tone mode. Run ID Mask up to just below nickel range. Now you get no signal on targets that fall below nickel, nickel to just below zinc penny medium tone, and zinc penny on up high tone.

ALL modes always have an active on screen visual VDI number though at the moment I do not know how targets rejected by ID Mask are handled. Something new to check out!

 

[steve herschbach]

No need to go on about all this. You are happy. I am happy. How about we just keep it to ourselves? I think everyone else should just get a DEUS and be happy their own way!

 

[OregonGregg]

Thanks Steve for clearing up the disc/ID Mask question on the CoRe

 

[steve herschbach]

This is the kind of stuff air tests are good for.

My FORS reads 56 on a nickel. If I turn the ID Mask up to 56 it still accepts the nickel. If I turn it to 57 nickel breaks up badly. At 58 nickel is gone.

There is no threshold in the disc modes so no threshold mulling. The rejected targets are simply gone, and nothing pops up on screen for VDI. So on screen VDI is not 100% independent of settings.

If I turn the ID Mask up to 99 nothing goes beep. You can go all the way above silver dollar if you get tired of digging!

 

[Southwind]

Thanks Steve,

I'll have to say I found your post before last far more informative than the last LOL. Although I think I'd have to agree with your last suggestion. While your descriptions sounds like it would make a good open field machine I don't think I'd find it much use on the parks and schools here in the USA.

 

[steve herschbach]

Funny, and I am loving mine in the park. Just goes to show, different strokes for different folks.

 

[sprchng]

This is the kind of stuff air tests are good for.

My FORS reads 56 on a nickel. If I turn the ID Mask up to 56 it still accepts the nickel. If I turn it to 57 nickel breaks up badly. At 58 nickel is gone.

There is no threshold in the disc modes so no threshold mulling. The rejected targets are simply gone, and nothing pops up on screen for VDI. So on screen VDI is not 100% independent of settings.

If I turn the ID Mask up to 99 nothing goes beep. You can go all the way above silver dollar if you get tired of digging!

Now we're getting somewhere--
So if you set it at 40 , do you get the same tone you get at 56? If 40 was a gold ring would you dig it because the tone told you it was something good or would you dig it because it sounded the same as the nickel. That's the type of audio disc I'm looking for and Gregg says it's not possible but JFlynn in his exuberance implies it is --which is it. I WANT IT TO BE TRUE!!!
The Deus can't , even though it came with the same type of grandiose claims about it , and once again when pressed it boils down to good old "nuances" but at least it has an abundance of tones to nuance around while the ReCo has three---that's the "correct" appellation BTW as I see it as relic hunter first.
I dig alot of modern trash in the low to medium conductor range that sound good looking for gold , not nickels but nickels happen to be in that range. How can the CoRe narrow my digging down in that range with just three tones total---if it can't , it's not the modern trash machine JFlynn in hyping it to be. Let's try to be honest with one another without letting brand loyalty and first impressions cloud our young minds. It has been my experience when detectorists begin delving into talk of "nuances" , the info is about to stop and BS is about to flow.

 

[ronhob]

Thanks Steve for clearing up the confusion I was having. I was wondering if the disc. could be run up past zinc penny or not. Notch is nice for the newer day athletic fields, but I can live without it.
Also good to know that it has no threshold in disc. mode. The f-75ltd 2 is the first machine I have owned that is that way. I prefer a threshold hum, but also not a deal breaker.
I am eagerly awaiting the release of the new Makro Racer to see just how much they change it up.
Fascinates me to see how much interest Nokta/Macro has gotten ,on this forum,in the last few months.
I am pretty sure they are going to have good sales in the US. Very Exciting!

 

[steve herschbach]

Everyone is being honest, it is just that everyone is not understanding each other. Certain machines just really zing for some people and nothing wrong with that. Does not mean you will like it though or maybe even hate it.

Just my opinion but the FORS better suits people like me that just want to either dig all non-ferrous or if in the mood just high conductors (coins). If you really want to cherry pick based on tones there are all kinds of machines with more tone and display options, like my White's V3i. Or my CTX. I can cherry pick with the FORS about as well as any of them but there are more efficient options if that is what you are after. The VDI s highly accurate but the tones boil down to preset two tone or three tone options.

I have dug more than my fair share of jewelry over the years though and all I can say is I love people who cherry pick. I will gladly dig every gold range item (foil to zinc penny) that you want to leave behind. I can probably cherry pick as well as the next guy, but I never kid myself into thinking I'm not passing up some good finds doing it. The secret to jewelry hunting in my opinion is not target selection, it is site selection.

Well, I will leave you all to it. I am more than happy to try and help anyone who has questions about the FORS but I am not out to talk anyone into it.

 

[steve herschbach]

I usually hunt in threshold based all metal modes so am very used to having a threshold but if I use discrimination I am finding there is a lot to be said for quiet.

I have owned about every type of detector you can imagine from very simple to extremely complex. After 40 years of detecting I am finding that discrimination is only good up to a point, and honestly that is for easy stuff. Once a place has been cherry picked of the easy targets, which is simple to do, you just have to get down and dirty and start digging either all non-ferrous targets, or all targets above a certain VDI. I like jewelry so I like to just dig all non-ferrous. But if I am in a coin mood I set it higher. Then just go dig. I find it actually is more fun for me at least to just not worry about what it is until it is in my hand, and then I know. I really, really love the process of metal detecting and so digging aluminum for a couple hours is just as good for me as anything else. What I need is a machine that can really pull up targets neat and clean that others are passing on and the FORS just really seems to be doing it for me.

There is only one problem. I think the T2/F75 for me is the perfect physical design in a machine. One piece, drop in batteries, screen in my face. Grab and go easy, light, well balanced. The FORS is not that. The Racer promises to be a FORS in a F75 type body and that is what I really want. I have the F75 but the FORS just keeps getting a bit cleaner hits when I take them out together. So I want to swing the F75 but the FORS is doing something a bit different on target acquisition IN MY GROUND. Hot ground, 5 bars on the F75 Fe3O4 meter. I have a hard time getting good signals past 5 inches on coins in this stuff.

Anyway, good machines, not magic though. At the end of the day you still have to do the work.

 

[OregonGregg]

Sprcng,

I never said what you are saying was impossible. What I said was rather it be a audio tone or a VDI number it is still only a "suggestion" of what might be under the coil. You can have all the tones and VDI numbers you want. If your machine is capable you can notch out VDI numbers, you can assign tones to certain VDI numbers.....hell, do what you want Mix and match it any way you want. But when you get that desired tone or desired VDI number, you will sit there and tell me what it is exactly under your coil. What happens when a pry tab off a soda pop, a nickel and a chunk of can slaw in the right crumpled up configuration all give the same VDI number and/ or the same tone ? In your example above you state : If 40 was a gold ring would you dig it because the tone told you it was something good or would you dig it because it sounded the same as the nickel.
In that example if "40" is/was a gold ring then why would one assume that it is a nickel or one can assume that "40" can either be a gold ring and or a nickel, and when the tone told you it was something good did it specifically state rather it was a gold ring or did that tone whisper in your ear that it was a nickel ? Perhaps what you are seeking is a GTI 2500 I believe it has a "Sound of Money " Tone and a nice female voice will even tell you so.

Or simply lets rearrange your statement " If 40 was a Nickel would you dig it because the tone told you it was something good or would you dig it because it sounded the same as the gold ring.

 

[sprchng]

Your absolutely correct Gregg, you didn't say it was impossible , you said ".well hell, your asking for almost the impossible" --I guess it's all in the interpretation
In all fairness to JFlynn , it's interpretation again as I asked how the CoRe was in "modern trash" and he repeatedly stated it was the greatest thing since rolled toilet paper---then I watch part of a video he made and I see him digging up a door jamb striker plate which I have to admit is "modern trash" in a way , just not the type of park trash I was referring to. The Deus , F75ltd and CoRe are very adept at finding targets but none of them are the tonal "cherry pickers" like the etrac , CTX , V3i and a few I haven't tried. My point (and i think you getit ) about the 40 reading and the gold ring is how do you tell the difference with only three tones, two of which are the other ends of the spectrum . I have no illusion one walks away from some good targets cherry picking the good signals , but with tonal differentiation , it decreases the time one spends digging the bad ones , kind of like knowing which horse to bet on in a race when you know the other horses are drugged to run SLOWER .I like to guess whether it's a condiment wrapper , bent pull tab or some other form of usually good reading before I surprise myself with a gold ring or pendant. Sometimes a perfect sounding 12-12 can turn into a ring also , but digging a hundred pulltabs in square yard of park grass just because they're mid tones is a good definition of insanity -----or compulsion I guess//aren't they the same thiing?

 

[OregonGregg]

That is some of why I hate typing on forums, its a bit tougher to convey what your saying and sometimes tough to get what the other person is conveying etc. And yes I agree with you site selection can make a difference in how I dig. If in a ghost town I will hunker down and go after good, bad and iffy signals. Good targets are so skewed most the time so I go after most signals and ya i dig a bunch of junk. And as you say, on the other hand if I am in a park and finding hundreds of tabs.....I prob skip right on over them and keep hunting.I still keep my disc set low and if I get that dead on nickel reading or a number that's kinda outside the range the tabs are hitting in I'll investigate it etc. That's what is nice about detecting, some people like to chase gold, others like to hit tot lots /parks for flash money and others like old sites such as ghost towns, old homestead sites. Me personally I am happiest when I am in an old ghost town. There is no right and wrong, its what ever you enjoy the most and you can do it anyway you like.
Also the forums are nice, when like me your stuck with frozen ground and a bunch of snow. Its fun to go back and forth over a topic or subject and see a bunch of different opinions.

 

[JFlynn]

Your absolutely correct Gregg, you didn't say it was impossible , you said ".well hell, your asking for almost the impossible" --I guess it's all in the interpretation
In all fairness to JFlynn , it's interpretation again as I asked how the CoRe was in "modern trash" and he repeatedly stated it was the greatest thing since rolled toilet paper---then I watch part of a video he made and I see him digging up a door jamb striker plate which I have to admit is "modern trash" in a way , just not the type of park trash I was referring to. The Deus , F75ltd and CoRe are very adept at finding targets but none of them are the tonal "cherry pickers" like the etrac , CTX , V3i and a few I haven't tried. My point (and i think you getit ) about the 40 reading and the gold ring is how do you tell the difference with only three tones, two of which are the other ends of the spectrum . I have no illusion one walks away from some good targets cherry picking the good signals , but with tonal differentiation , it decreases the time one spends digging the bad ones , kind of like knowing which horse to bet on in a race when you know the other horses are drugged to run SLOWER .I like to guess whether it's a condiment wrapper , bent pull tab or some other form of usually good reading before I surprise myself with a gold ring or pendant. Sometimes a perfect sounding 12-12 can turn into a ring also , but digging a hundred pulltabs in square yard of park grass just because they're mid tones is a good definition of insanity -----or compulsion I guess//aren't they the same thiing?

Sprunhg come visit and I promise you have not seen as much modern trash as what we hunt. I dug two pulltabs today and kept one per it was a very pretty beavertail and I happen to like them. The newer models are laying all over the ground and in it. Canslaw is everywhere I mean all over. I've never seen a park with the amount of modern trash these old house lots have. Some are way worse than others this one just happens to be one of the medium maybe. I just plain don't dig the modern stuff that most machines say are good because they apparently move the TID numbers around where as a coin it locks on to like ya can only dream of not unless you are running one of these. I dug way more trash with ML's. and the Deus for me in these places does not work per it's downfall is modern aluminum. It for me really just might be the best thing since rolled toilet paper too. Keep some handy you'll need it if you run one of these for a while.