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FLORIDA LAW regarding found jewelry

Ok. I thought you were hinting/thinking some unscrupulous personnel might pocket an item.

But now that I understand what you were saying : Yes, no doubt we md'rs would make a better effort at finding an owner. Like the way we have perpetual stories of re-united class rings: I wonder if a police dept. would go to that level of research ? Takes calls , matching yearbook pix to initials, tracking down maiden names to married names, finding current addresses and #s, etc....

Also some really high end larger diamonds have laser microscopic inscriptions. Only jewelers with special equipment can know where they're located, and have the equipment to read them. And cross-reference a serial # to an insurance co, or the diamond mine where it was mined from , to trace down the line to the buyer, etc..... I wonder if cops would go to that level of scrutiny trying to match up insurance #'s , unless it was blatantly obvious inscribed ?
 
Tom/CA, thanks for taking the time to post your incident. I believe I better understand where you are coming from now. We've differed in the past re asking LE about any existing MD laws but I am more in sympathy with you after reading your story. I also sense a cultural difference in where you are and the South (usa).I think people here are less inclined to try to be persnickety about trivial laws and more of the Do Whats Right frame of mind. The only cop who has ever done anything more than wave at me while I was detecting was just coming over to see if I was having any luck. Turns out he was a detectorist too and had hunted the same park I was in.

One thing I would recommend tho; never use your 'real' email when contacting anyone outside your circle of close friends. Theres tons of free email services on the net.
 
Here in Virginia, I have no trouble with my expensive finds, cause I keep my mouth shut !!! Class rings go back if possible. Appraisers only know I want an appraisal. Nothing more nothing less. Good luck to all !
 
I think Tom in ca is mostly right. If I may so say...There are laws on the books for mostly anything and everything they may be outdated or not enforced but necessarily are there it to be enforced in the worst case scenario....or when they deem necessary. If you know its not yours....its not right to keep it....or legal in most cases. In regard to metal detecting...I think the case has been argued and could be argued that its been buried it the ground. For the sake of argument, say its been lost for 100 years.....who is going to claim it???And that's the problem, who is to say exactly how long its been lost??? No one can say....that's the thing about metal detecting.....its not an exact science nor does it give any guarantees about what you will find....and when. As my profile signature says....."If metal detecting made perfect sense. everyone would do it"!

The fact that one "gambles" every time they metal detect means that sometimes you find something and sometimes you don't. If it was Guaranteed you would find major or profitable finds every time you metal detect....there would be strict laws about metal detecting....everywhere!

If you find a coin.....there is absolutely no way they can trace or identify one from another....that's why there is generally no buy/sell regulations on those transactions. The same thing would apply to a lot of jewelry found. There would be exceptions. So, to say some authorities have a "crystal ball" and can determine one ring from another...it just cant be done.....in most cases. I think even they would admit that fact but in their "wisdom" would like to be able to decide that with their legal prudence.

As for the authorities, keeping the profits or a portion there of.....thank your politicians for devising that law....as well as others. The law makers are always thinking of new ways to created funds/revenue without having it labeled....as a tax. So, is another way to accomplish what they want. The authorities always say that they don't have the manpower(woman power i.e. PC) to do IMPORTANT things , so why should they have the time to investigate metal detecting???
TSA also confiscates millions of dollars of items every year......who gets the profits??? They do. That's the problem, whom is going to watch who's hand is in the cookie jar ...so to speak. When they make a profit from items they take for you....and no clear guidelines and what to take....it hard for them to decide what's right and what's wrong. Think of it this way, Police have locker rooms to store their items in a secure location.....why do they need locks on their lockers???????? They should not need them....but they do.

I think unless an item or find is a lot of money, reasonably identifiable and/or lost recently....I don't think you would be prosecuted for finding something that no one can positively identify, as theirs. Especially, if it has been buried in the ground, for who knows, how long.
 
You guys see / remember a few years ago. A Armored car going down the highway, rear door flys open. Money starts rolling out. People flocked like birds on the beach. How many got prosecuted? Maybe no one.
 
So what happens when they find the person who lost the ring and who has already filed an insurance claim that has been paid-out? Do they turn the ring over to the insurance company? Sure can get complicated can't it?
 
In that case, the insurance Co. would get the ring.
 
It would be easy for us to say that a 1909 S vdb cent is worth "1 cent". And a 1916 D mercury dime is worth "10 cents", etc.... To thus be outside the scope of laws to turn in items over a certain value criteria. And we would also justify ourselves by noting that it's also been buried for ~100 yrs, so the person who lost it is long-since gone .

So NONE of us would turn in valuable coins (even though worth over the lost & found criteria threshold). Right ?

But consider the following true story:

A retired guy in a city near me, took up detecting, as a way to get exercise. He was just a sandbox and tot-lot type hunter. Just an excuse to get out and walk during his retirement years. He made a route of all the parks and schools in his area of the county, and made sport of hitting a few each weekend, such that by the end of the month, he'd worked them all. Just accumulating clad change, with the occasional ring or whatever.

One day he was working a sandbox at a school that was blt. in the late 1930s. He got a couple of very old coins. Like a seated quarter, a bust half, and so forth. But since he wasn't a coin collector, he didn't really know his old coin ID's. And he assumed these were gimmicks or fake, or tokens or something. He threw them into his box with his other finds.

A few days later, a buddy of his was over at his house shooting the breeze. They were looking through his latest finds, when the friend saw the older coins. He knew his old coin ID's, and told his friend that these were very much real, and .... valuable. Asked "where did you find these ?". So the two of them decided to go try this sandbox more. They got a few more key date valuable old coins ! After multiple more hunts, they had ended up with something like 8 to 10 key coins. Like silver dollars, bust halves, seated quarters, and so forth. They were besides themselves with glee.

But confusion set in: Because obviously, the school was not old enough for these coins to be there ! So they formulated the theory that the SAND in the sandbox must've come from the beach (this school is only 1 mile from the beach). And during a sand replenishment project recently (bring in clean sand to replace old sand) the coins must've been in the sand that came from the beach ! What a grand stroke of luck, eh ?

After awhile, they could find no more coins in the sand box. So one of the men wandered out of the sandbox, and was hunting the tall grass along a border. He got a signal, parted the grass, and .... barely 1/2" down under the surface, was ANOTHER key old USA coin. So the two men started hunting all the grass around the sandbox and school yard, and found another 6 or 7 old coins. Hence, all-told, they had something like 15+ key date numismatic old USA coins now.

But this sort of threw their theory of the "beach sand" out the window. Since these coins were coming from the grass. Doh. So they hatched a new theory: That this location where the school was built, must've been an early 1800's camp or watering hole spot, on an old travel route. And that the modern school must've been built over the spot. They rationalized this because the old El Camino Reale (route between the CA missions) passed by only a mere 1000 ft. away.

One day, 1 of the 2 men was hunting alone. An after school janitor spotted him, and walked out to talk to him. Told the md'r: "If you find any old coins.... and I mean OLD coins, let me know." The md'r asked the janitor why he was saying that. The janitor explained that : A few semesters earlier , a nerdy loaner 3rd grade student had brought his dad's coin collection to school for show & tell (without his dad's permission or knowledge) . And then, during recess, had proceeded to pass out the coins to classmates, to "make friends". And the kids, not knowing one coin from other (treating them like play money or tokens), had simply gone and lost a bunch on the playground.

A few days later, when the dad realized what had happened, he went to the school principle. The principle, in turn, marched the father and son into the classroom, where all were made to stand at attention. The children were told that those coins should not have been passed out, and that they were to return any coins they'd been given. A few coins got returned, by kids who happened to still have them. But the rest either denied having gotten any, or said they no longer had theirs, or whatever.

As the md'r heard the janitor's story, it IMMEDIATELY became clear what the origination source of their coins had been. Doh !

Ok: You tell me: Who do the coins belong to: The md'rs ? Or the coin collector ? And if you were the coin collector, and got wind of the fact that some yahoo md'r had "your" coins, wouldn't you feel like they'd had an obligation to turn them in ?

I don't know if the md'r revealed to the janitor that they did, in fact, have a bunch of the coins. So I'm not sure what followed. But you can see this brings up various layers of legal ramifications, eh ?
 
Personally... if after checking out the janitors story and if finding it to be 100% true I would return all coins I had found in that school yard to the father as I feel that is what my moral compass requires I do. We all have to decide where our personal integrity over rides our innate desire to keep what we find when detecting. I personally try and locate every piece of found jewelry's previous owner if possible, just something I do. I'm into it for the hunt the find is a bonus and a return if possible, is a joy to me.
 
I agree. But take it a step further: Wasn't it your obligation to have turned them in to the police, after first having found them?

If the father in that story had filed a "lost" report with the police, and you were later found with their possession, you can be charged with theft. Even if you'd never had the meeting with the janitor to have known the story.
 
Going by what you have said....and all information is correct .I would personally say that its the coin collectors collection found BUT there is NO way to prove it....its all circumstantial. So, unless you knew of the theft/loss or had some knowledge of the case or any other details....I doubt you would be charged for finding.....coins. The proof lies upon the state to prove that a theft/loss has occurred...with that....they have to prove an exact item(s) were taken or lost. If they cant prove that its the exact item(s) in question, there is no way they can pursue the case.
 
I think that should include your time spent as a semi professional self employed treasure locator. Additionally, there are several rebuttable presumptions that could ensue, like cost by the "finder". Like what was the intent of the of the equipment used and how by the finder.
I would challenge in court who would provide the better return search. The Police or Hunter....... I believe the depend on these finds to auction.
 
lasergod said:
I think that should include your time spent as a semi professional self employed treasure locator. Additionally, there are several rebuttable presumptions that could ensue, like cost by the "finder". Like what was the intent of the of the equipment used and how by the finder.
I would challenge in court who would provide the better return search. The Police or Hunter....... I believe the depend on these finds to auction.

I agree with you and that would be nice for us to be paid for our talents but unfortunately the law doesn't look at it that way . If there's a reward or finders fee as part of an insurance claim that would be one thing but I doubt any court is going to reward you for your actions for items that can be proved ...belongs to someone else. I would say the court would react by stating that no one forced you to metal detect so if you actually found somebody else's property then you should surrender it And it given to the rightful owner . It is then up to the owner to decide whether he wants to give you anything for your service or not.
 
n/t
 
OK here's a true story by me TOM. While detecting on the beach in Virginia I found a nice men's gold wedding ring about size 10-11 no name inside. A fellow comes up to me and asks how am I doing I said OK some change and a nice ring, good luck have a nice day. About an hour later he comes over to me with a police officer and claims that ring is his and that I will not return it to him Officer said give it back to him or I will have to arrest you sir for theft. I gave it to him and said to him now you have a nice day. NEVER SHOW ANYTHING YOU FIND TO ANYBODY THEY CAN CLAIM IT'S THEIR'S AND GET IT FROM YOU WITH THE HELP OF THE LAW. THIS IS A 100% TRUE STORY.
 
Best not to share anything of value with the casual passerby. I usually tell them I am just finding a few coins. Tom, did the cop have the guy try the ring on? Sounds like he was giving the jerk every benefit of the doubt.
 
A few observations and questions for you:

1) when that fellow first stopped and chatted, at the time when you mentioned you'd found a ring, did you actually show it to them at that time ? If not, then couldn't you have asked him to describe it, in the officer's presence ? But sure, if you HAD shown him the ring @ the hour earlier, I suppose he could rattle off a description .

2) I believe I read somewhere else of something similar happening to an md'r . And the md'r .... holding the ring, said "tell me what the inscription is on the inside". At at point, the accuser/claimant backed away and left (knowing he could not cite an inscription). Turns out it was a bluff on the md'rs part, and there was NO inscription it it. But it was enough to flush out a false claimant.

3) I too, like you , have casually shared with passerbys on how I'm doing. Especially if a pretty girl on the beach comes up and asks what I've found, how it works, etc.. But just in general, I have no qualms small-talking about hunting. Unless I'm really busy and don't want to be bothered, I don't mind chatting with nice people. And as such, I have sometimes shown someone a good item (hey, we all like a good show & tell afterall, haha). And it's never occurred to me, at those times, that something like your situation could happen.

Sure, it's possible. Example, one time I asked a passerby if he could take a video clip, since my buddy and I were going to make a youtube video. A few targets later, I got a gold ring on live video dig. The passerby was astounded. I could have been victim to the same con. But looking back, nothing like this has ever happened to me, or anybody I know of. There's the occasional fluke story, like yours on a forum now and then. Along with the instinctive take-away warning to NEVER SHOW YOUR FINDS, etc...

Heck, the same caution has even been proposed for forum show & tell sections: That if you post your latest show & tell bragging rights, what's to stop someone from saying "hey that's mine"! So they claim to never post show & tell, not even to other hobbyists on forums such as this. Yet, .... last I checked, the forums are FULL of show & tell (that's what makes the hobby fun afterall, is the competition and camaraderie).

So what I'm trying to tell you is: The AVERAGE human being is not going to rob you and con you. You can *usually* walk the streets and not get mugged. Yes there are indecent con's out there. But the average passerby is .... just like you and I: The honest "guy next door" Joe 6-pack. Sure, don't throw caution to the wind. But on the other hand, I'll bet that if you showed 1000 of the next curious passerby persons who asked "how ya doing?", that this would probably not happen again. Ie.: a fluke. Just as in you can walk through a park 1000 times and not be mugged, but sure, now and then, you read in the paper of a mugging.
 
tarajudy said:
OK here's a true story by me TOM. While detecting on the beach in Virginia I found a nice men's gold wedding ring about size 10-11 no name inside. A fellow comes up to me and asks how am I doing I said OK some change and a nice ring, good luck have a nice day. About an hour later he comes over to me with a police officer and claims that ring is his and that I will not return it to him Officer said give it back to him or I will have to arrest you sir for theft. I gave it to him and said to him now you have a nice day. NEVER SHOW ANYTHING YOU FIND TO ANYBODY THEY CAN CLAIM IT'S THEIR'S AND GET IT FROM YOU WITH THE HELP OF THE LAW. THIS IS A 100% TRUE STORY.

I have had this type of thing happen......once. About a 12 year old girl came up to me and ask me if I ever found anything....at this park. I said yes. She asked what I found which was a variety of things. She asked about a womens ring I found....and then she said it was hers.....and then it was her girlfriends ring. I said lets call her...she said her girlfriend didn't have a phone???? What 12 year old doesn't have ANY phone? I then said...."yellow gold, ring"? She said yes. I told her to go away as It was not yellow gold and because of her other answers....she was trying to con me. I also told her I was calling the police to question her about making false statements and trying to obtain this ring. She disappeared.
 
Hey Tom,
You can always change your email address but that sucks that they want you to turn everything in, don't think so, why spend some much frigging money on a machine, let the person that lost the item buy themselves a machine and look for it. I may be wrong but I just won't do that.
 
As long as we are swapping war stories... A few years ago I was hunting my local beach late one summer day. Some kids came up to see what I was doing and I happened to hit an iPod in a blue Hello Kitty case. A maybe 12 year old girl took an interest in it and ask to look at it. Shortly they lost interest and ran off, I went back to hunting. 45 minutes to an hour later a maybe 18 year old guy came up and asked if I'd seen an iPod and described it to a T. Without thinking I gave it to him. As I left the beach I saw him leaving with the 12 year old and several others. Lesson learned. Best find in a long time went home with a family of grifters raising a child in the family trade.
When I am asked about finds I say, "Mostly trash and a few coins, mostly pennies." and if they press, "I can often make a dollar or two an hour doing this, but at least I get trash off the beach!" And I don't hunt with a bunch of kids clustered around. I walk briskly down the beach until they drop off (I am swinging but only stop for a GOOD signal). :detecting:
 
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