Fisher CZ's still the King

[tvr]

Don't know if I'm doing anything wrong. But I have 3 CZ5 and CZ6a. Over the years have tested all of them for depth with a silver dime. Air test never goes more than 8-9"; in the ground it's 6". Yet I keep hearing and reading all the CZ owners say they find coins down to 12-14", silver dimes 10"+ easy peasy. Sent one of the machines to NASA Tom to get it tuned up for max depth. He said it hits a dime at 10" in Florida soil. the machine came back, still the same, no increase in depth, exact same performance as before, 8-9" in the air, 6" in the ground (siLver dime). What the heck? The soil in Toronto Canada is normal soil, not mineralized ,
Same thing with the new Nokta Simplex , and the ML Vanquish, bought both because Ad says great depth. Bit after testing, nope, not really, almost same depth as the CZ5.
Now the only difference in depth I found are the more expensive machines, such as the Equinox, proven by the fact that my hunting friend found 7 silver dimes at a place where my CZ5 cannot see the coins, they were 7-8" deep.

Ken

Puzzling. Perhaps sweep speed? CZs like a relaxed sweep. Too fast and you miss targets. Settings? Headphones? A couple years ago with a silver ring at the beach that I found with the CZ6a (with the FZ12 coil on it) I had another beach hunter come up with his Equinox and he could not find a target yet it was clear and not faint on the CZ and several scoops deep. The guy was about two months into using the Equinox after years with an Explorer. That is the only time I've done a same target check between the two detectors.

 

[DigDog]

Don't know if I'm doing anything wrong. But I have 3 CZ5 and CZ6a. Over the years have tested all of them for depth with a silver dime. Air test never goes more than 8-9"; in the ground it's 6". Yet I keep hearing and reading all the CZ owners say they find coins down to 12-14", silver dimes 10"+ easy peasy. Sent one of the machines to NASA Tom to get it tuned up for max depth. He said it hits a dime at 10" in Florida soil. the machine came back, still the same, no increase in depth, exact same performance as before, 8-9" in the air, 6" in the ground (siLver dime). What the heck? The soil in Toronto Canada is normal soil, not mineralized ,
Same thing with the new Nokta Simplex , and the ML Vanquish, bought both because Ad says great depth. Bit after testing, nope, not really, almost same depth as the CZ5.
Now the only difference in depth I found are the more expensive machines, such as the Equinox, proven by the fact that my hunting friend found 7 silver dimes at a place where my CZ5 cannot see the coins, they were 7-8" deep.

Ken

Hmm I highly doubt you have Florida soil in Canada lol. If you can dig a deep hole using nothing but your bare hands then you might have Florida soil. Best way i can describe it take a big bag of sugar and stick your hand in it thats what Florida soil is like. Hence the name sugar sand.
Soil type and conditions is probably the biggest factor in determining depth. Can’t compare soils on opposite sides of the continent
“Normal” soil is subjective
Not sure what size coils you have but coil size also determines depth.
If your detector has a 8” coil and the new detector your friend has is a 11” coil we’ll that explains alot. There will be slight performance differences between more expensive detectors and less expensive ones but usually minimal. Soil and coil usually the deciding factor.
You expressed that all your detectors have the same issue I highly doubt there is something wrong with all of them. Assuming you haven’t changed any settings when you got your detector back from service i would say its your soil

 

[tvr]

my hunting friend found 7 silver dimes at a place where my CZ5 cannot see the coins, they were 7-8" deep.

Is the CZ properly ground balanced?

 

[DigDog]

Is the CZ properly ground balanced?

If it’s truly not mineralized like he says just like here in Fl ground balance makes no difference whatsoever. You can adjust it any which way here and nothing happens. You just leave it alone as set by the factory.
Im more curious on the coil configuration , size, concentric, dd.
Ive listened to NASA Tom back almost 20 years ago have his cd, and I specifically remember him saying the same thing, this result is this location in Florida and your results might be different.in your location.He wouldn’t reference that unless he knew it would be different in other locations.

 

[tvr]

If it’s truly not mineralized like he says just like here in Fl ground balance makes no difference whatsoever. You can adjust it any which way here and nothing happens. You just leave it alone as set by the factory.
Im more curious on the coil configuration , size, concentric, dd.
Ive listened to NASA Tom back almost 20 years ago have his cd, and I specifically remember him saying the same thing, this result is this location in Florida and your results might be different.in your location.He wouldn’t reference that unless he knew it would be different in other locations.

Tom's certified depth can be repeated in air tests. That Ken's air tests are less indicates something is not set right or there is EMI affecting his air test. Even on Florida beaches I can ground balance the CZs I've taken to Florida. I've heard some say that on some beaches in Florida the ground balance adjust made no difference, I have not experienced that. True that if you have very mineralized ground you most likely won't detect as deep even when properly ground balanced, but the example of the Equinox hitting silver that the CZ doesn't see just does not sound right. CZs are hot on silver.

 

[Tony-Ok]

As I always say swing what you like.
At my point I don’t even like to dig past 8-10” anymore so just about anything will work for that. Might as well be as light, convenient and comfortable especially in 100 degree humid

Don't know if I'm doing anything wrong. But I have 3 CZ5 and CZ6a. Over the years have tested all of them for depth with a silver dime. Air test never goes more than 8-9"; in the ground it's 6". Yet I keep hearing and reading all the CZ owners say they find coins down to 12-14", silver dimes 10"+ easy peasy. Sent one of the machines to NASA Tom to get it tuned up for max depth. He said it hits a dime at 10" in Florida soil. the machine came back, still the same, no increase in depth, exact same performance as before, 8-9" in the air, 6" in the ground (siLver dime). What the heck? The soil in Toronto Canada is normal soil, not mineralized ,
Same thing with the new Nokta Simplex , and the ML Vanquish, bought both because Ad says great depth. Bit after testing, nope, not really, almost same depth as the CZ5.
Now the only difference in depth I found are the more expensive machines, such as the Equinox, proven by the fact that my hunting friend found 7 silver dimes at a place where my CZ5 cannot see the coins, they were 7-8" deep.

Ken

Hey Ken , I had a CZ 5 that I bought new in 1993. To me it was deep! Easily hit silver targets 8-10 inches in the disc mode. What I noticed was as time went by the targets in my test garden were easier to hit. Probably due to a halo that seemed to increase over the years. I sold the CZ5 and now I wish I would have kept it. I might try to trade it down. I sold it to Walt dwiz.on the forums. I contacted him. He had sold to ???????? It was all original except it had a Cz3D meter. If anyone has it and would sell it ? I would be interested. Anyone, Anyone??? Back to my story . In 2015 a Cz3D came up at a reasonable price, so I bought it and wow …… what a dud !!!! I sent it to Fisher for a look see . They tested it and said it was fine ! All the specs were correct. Results were 6-7 inches while air testing,it would not hit 8” silver in the ground. I was shocked. I traded it off and got a cz70 that was mint. It tested very well just like my old CZ5. Another one I should have kept. I traded it ( too heavy to swing all day). So I guess trading it wasn’t really a bad thing. My XP ws6 master is absolutely killing it on deep targets. Lots of great finds !!!! HH Tony

 

[marcomo]

You had a cold cz-3d, Tony, which isn't unusual. In the Dankowski units he's certified for depth, I've seen as much as a 4 inch difference!

 

[Tony-Ok]

You had a cold cz-3d, Tony, which isn't unusual. In the Dankowski units he's certified for depth, I've seen as much as a 4 inch difference!

Yes that is what I figured. The only reason I tried it was it was a reasonable price.It’s funny they were fetching $800 plus and more than the flagship F75. I was able to make a good trade with it.

 

[DigDog]

I don’t water hunt anymore and when i did i had a ML Excal that didn’t need to GB. But when in salt water sand I would imagine there is minimization so gb would make sense I was specifically speaking on the inland grounds here away from the salt water there is no mineralization to speak of any gb makes no difference. The factory presets are just fine. I am also not familiar with Fisher detectors so cannot speak for them. A 4” difference between different detectors of the same model seems a bit much for tolerances

 

[ken(toronto)]

The coil is a concentric stock 8" coil. Settings are, 0 discrimniation, sensitivity 6-7. Batteries fully charged. sweeping speed normal, not too fast, not too slow.
don't know the vintage of two machines, as I purchased them online, but the original CZ6a was purchased in 2001. Maybe they're too old, and the electronic components have deteriorated? Other than the depth issue, they are fantastic machines!

Ken

 

[DigDog]

The coil is a concentric stock 8" coil. Settings are, 0 discrimniation, sensitivity 6-7. Batteries fully charged. sweeping speed normal, not too fast, not too slow.
don't know the vintage of two machines, as I purchased them online, but the original CZ6a was purchased in 2001. Maybe they're too old, and the electronic components have deteriorated? Other than the depth issue, they are fantastic machines!

Ken

Well i would say the issue you have with comparing depth with your friends Nox is that his stock coil is a DD 11” and yours is a 8” concentric.
Not even a close comparison.
Keep in mind with a concentric coil the detection field is in a V shape so at the very deepest point it is a very small area whereas a DD the detection field is a straight line the entire length if the coil front to backa much more deeper detection field not to mention the physics a 11” will go much deeper than a 8”.
Thats not even taking into consideration any minimization where a DD will likely go deeper.
Im sure its still working like new

 

[RLOH]

The coil is a concentric stock 8" coil. Settings are, 0 discrimniation, sensitivity 6-7. Batteries fully charged. sweeping speed normal, not too fast, not too slow.
don't know the vintage of two machines, as I purchased them online, but the original CZ6a was purchased in 2001. Maybe they're too old, and the electronic components have deteriorated? Other than the depth issue, they are fantastic machines!

Ken

Ken, I had just about every CZ made and the CZ70 was the only one that I could run above 5 on the sensitivity. Try 4 with a slow sweep speed.

 

[tvr]

Are you ground balancing? As RLOH notes 5 and up in dicrimination mode is high. If I run in discrimination mode, and I run sensitivity 5 and up, it falses and I dig phantom targets. When running auto-tune (all metal) I can run sensitivity up to where I hear a threshold and that is in the 8ish range. When I then switch to disc 0, I run a narrow sweep over the target I already know is there and the detector gives a pretty good ID. I run volume well into the boost range. When on the beach I run full boosted volume. That takes away from the audio depth indication, but lets me hear deeper targets.
I've not found depth to degrade on them over the years (with respect to the issue of degrading). If something fails, you know it, but that doesn't seem to happen much.

 

[DigDog]

are all these buried silver coins used to determine depth in a test garden of sorts including the ones the Nox picked up.
Curious of the environment and everything being equal. Any iron masking, emi. Just strange that all the detectors not just the CZ are supposedly not getting any depth on the silver coins. How about any other targets.

 

[Bryannagirl]

i live in N.W Florida and stuff sinks fast in my yards soil. Recently dug a 83 stnk'n at 8" and I have lived here since I was born in 59. No soil added ever, anway in my test garden I made around 11-12 yrs ago to replace the one I built a deck over that had been there for over 30 yrs I can't find any of my plants. It's like someone dug them up,, no hint of a coinI and have tried everything I have.
# 1 Tek T2 S.E LTD with BP. #2 Nokta Legend #3Tek Gama 6000, a great machine for coins #4 Tek Eurotek pro,another good coin machine #5 Minelab Vanquish 540 and finally I broke out the CZ 6a with 5" coil and they light up with no problem. No trash as I built this for depth test not trash test bed.
I did find in my old test garden the CZ will find coins with trash nearby better than anything else I own,even Eurotek pro.
Anyone else found them the best for deep silver? Their a little heavy but I had L4-L5 spinal fusion done in April 2021 and a covid vaccine stroke 2-23-23 this year,, I'm 65 in a few months so their not that heavy and hip mounted their very lite.

I hunted a golf course converted to park with a guy swinging a CZ5 he pulled silver left and right out of that park/golf course - my Sov GT was not nearly as effective!

 

[Tony-Ok]

I hunted a golf course converted to park with a guy swinging a CZ5 he pulled silver left and right out of that park/golf course - my Sov GT was not nearly as effective!

Yes the CZ5 is very good tool and experienced users will definitely be rewarded!! I had 20 years + with a CZ5 and found loads of old coins etc. I would say it’s probably one of the best analog detectors out there. I no longer have one . If I ever found a really nice one I might have to acquire one . HH Tony

 

[tvr]

I hunted a golf course converted to park with a guy swinging a CZ5 he pulled silver left and right out of that park/golf course - my Sov GT was not nearly as effective!

Experience with the detector can make a big difference. Perhaps experience with the detector was his big advantage. Both detectors are very good.

 

[Mark ( ohio )]

I hunted a golf course converted to park with a guy swinging a CZ5 he pulled silver left and right out of that park/golf course - my Sov GT was not nearly as effective!

UMMM , I do agree with the talk of the cz units. I went from a whites silver eagle to a cz5 and did see quality finds increase ( tho the cz was notorious for iding deep iron as a good target ).... BUT, i should think your sov GT should be a silver ( and copper ) slayer and every bit as good ( if not better ) than the cz Those bbs/fbs units are/were just incredible on what they could see and identify correctly in the ground.
Just my opinion
Mark ( ohio )

 

[Bryannagirl]

Experience with the detector can make a big difference. Perhaps experience with the detector was his big advantage. Both detectors are very good.

Yes experience with detector is huge I was fresh he had years

 

[tvr]

Yes experience with detector is huge I was fresh he had years

Take time over targets and learn your detector. It takes time and thought. After a while more and better finds start coming in. Good luck!