first park hunt.

[sgoss66]

Cos --

I use what, for me, in my dirt, in my town, allows me to do the best job of making a neat, clean recovery. I carry both a hand-held Lesche and -- whenever I believe it to be "acceptable," my Lesche 38D long-handled shovel. I don't use it because I'm lazy, I don't use it because I don't care, I use it because I DO care. I care about leaving as little trace as possible. A hinged plug is sometimes appropriate, but one a deep coin, in MY clay-type soil, with MY type of grass (Bermudagrass), the long-handled digger that cuts the perfectly round plug does -- in my experience -- the best, neatest, cleanest, least-damaging job to the ground.

This is the third forum I've posted these thoughts on, today, and all three in response to comments on this very video (which, by the way, I have not watched yet). But -- to support my "best way to dig a neat, deep plug," I'll ask the same question I asked in my other two posts on the other forums. What is the most pristine, well-maintained grass surface in the world? A putting green at a nice golf course, right? And WHAT does the greenskeeper choose, to cut the holes in his green? A hand digger, or long-handled tool that cuts a perfect, round plug, which he then replaces into the prior hole?

I am as concerned as you are about having places shut down. But I do NOT believe it is "the type of digger used" that causes us to have our spots "shut down." It is messy, or worse yet -- completely unfilled -- holes. And for me, the 38D allows me to make very clean, neat recoveries...

I TOTALLY AGREE that each of us has a responsibility to "leave no trace." I guess it just frustrates me that instead of us all being focused on THAT, the focus has somehow been placed on the TYPE of tool being used to "leave no trace."

Steve

 

[IDXMonster]

For your information, if you use a shovel in a park in Wisconsin you will be arrested. Frankly, I don't understand why so many metal detectorists are endangering our wonderful hobby by using shovels in parks and other manicured lawn areas. If this practice continues our hobby will be outlawed in all public areas. Please--buy some knee pads, get down on your knees, cut a small, hinged plug, and pray that our hobby will be allowed to continue to use our wonderful public parks!!

This is utter nonsense. I’ve used a 31” Sampson for 3 years in many many many schools,parks and other public places and NEVER had ANY issue with people,police,administrators,grounds crew,etc. Yes,I do it ALL in Wisconsin. Yes,all of the aforementioned types of people have seen me,watched me and talked with me. At NO point was my shovel EVER mentioned except one Belleville police officer asked me where I got it because she wanted to order one for her Dad who detects as well.
Now....if you use a shovel in a STATE park or are detecting there without a very specific type of permit,then you will get a talking to,so I’ve heard.
A shovel,specifically when you are hunting EXTREMELY DEEP coins will do a BETTER job of cutting a proper 3 sided plug with a deeper amount of dirt with it so as to minimize plug death. Using a shovel to recover coins that are 2-3” down,now THAT is silly. Just a slit in the sod with your trowel or knife will get it out quickly.
You do NOT want to go into a public place with a full sized long handled tree spade! That would also be bad. When doing ANY kind of plugging,it is PARAMOUNT that the area looks very good when you leave it...no trash,plug replaced with dirt,grass fluffed,etc.
To say that you’ll be arrested in all of Wisconsin for using a shovel in any park is not true. If you are in a restricted area or an area that says “NO METAL DETECTORS” then yes,you deserve a ticket. Otherwise,I,along with several people I hunt with,have NEVER had a “shovel” issue,nor have any sites that I have ever heard of been closed down because of them.

 

[Greg (E.Tn)]

n/t

 

[RavRad]

Completely agree with Steve and IDXMonster.

Look through YouTube videos and watch how many mangled “plugs” are dug with hand diggers. One of the few who does pop clean hand digger plugs is Dirt Fishing, but the majority of them look like an axe murder had at the ground.

With a good Detecting focused shovel, one can pop a clean plug that doesn’t decimate the root structure, seats back in the ground nicely, and Won’t turn into a dead patch. It’s much better to pop a large plug and dig the coin out from the plug once flipped then hack away from the top. Unless the pinpointer can grab the target from the surface I never lead with the hand digger, and leave behind clean fields. Metal Detecting county parks is off limits in my county, but I managed to get written permission after meeting with the parks director and showing him how I dig.

But this debate will live on no matter what any of us say.

 

[bigelow]

Hello Tony,

Yes, Faster recovery speed decreases depth under most conditions. However, under some conditions it'll increase depth. Such as tougher mineralization, or extreanmy trashy areas especially laced with iron.

Masking, robs away depth. You'll see this more with Goldfield program on the Deus, too much ground noise is eliminated with increasing reactivity. If you don't increase reactivity when needed, you'll loose depth due to poor stabitily.

Reactivity is a great feature, know when to increase or when to decrease.

Good to hear from you Tony!
Paul
I never thought about using the Goldfield program. I wonder if it would
be good to use in medium sandy soil here in Michigan in a yard with

a lot of old iron square cut nails?

I think it would work ok from what I saw testing yesterday the target id did well recognizing in gold field as well

 

[NCtoad]

Completely agree with Steve and IDXMonster.

Look through YouTube videos and watch how many mangled “plugs” are dug with hand diggers. One of the few who does pop clean hand digger plugs is Dirt Fishing, but the majority of them look like an axe murder had at the ground.

With a good Detecting focused shovel, one can pop a clean plug that doesn’t decimate the root structure, seats back in the ground nicely, and Won’t turn into a dead patch. It’s much better to pop a large plug and dig the coin out from the plug once flipped then hack away from the top. Unless the pinpointer can grab the target from the surface I never lead with the hand digger, and leave behind clean fields. Metal Detecting county parks is off limits in my county, but I managed to get written permission after meeting with the parks director and showing him how I dig.

But this debate will live on no matter what any of us say.

+1 or is it +4. All I ever use is my sampson. Three cuts, flip plug and extract target, plug goes back in and becomes invisible where I dug. Never had a problem with it.

 

[Old California]

It'll work Tony, but may take time to adjust that will depend with the user.

Start off in clearer areas with proper ground balance, areas with less iron and play with reactivity settings. Depending on mineralization, ground noise will eventually disappear as you increase reactivity.

You'll hear the ground noise as you swing, just use enough reactivity to smooth out the threshold and eliminate ground noise. Eventually, You'll be very comfortably using Goldfield program in thick iron.

Other Top end models use SAT speed with prospecting mode to increase recovery, same applies here increase SAT to smooth out threshold and eliminate ground noise. I've used this for years, prospecting mode in areas with mineralization will enhance detection.

It's a tough feature to learn and understand but it works, Good luck Tony!

Paul

 

[Cos]

While I could mention a number of parks and communities that have closed their parkland to metal detecting because of the use of shovels, let me instead just relate one situation in the community of Janesville, WI. Janesville has a reasonable metal detecting permit system that clearly spells out what tools can be used to excavate metal detecting targets, and it doesn't include the use of Sampson (or any other) shovels. Last fall, I noted two detectorists using shovels in a Janesville park. I asked the park department what I should do when I see detectorists using shovels. They said, "Call the police immediately." The parks personnel stated that the police know that using shovels while metal detecting is strictly illegal in Janesville. So calling the police is exactly what I will do if I see those two people digging with shovels again in Janesville.

Finally, I an the secretary of the Four Lakes Metal Detector Club of Madison, WI. In working with the Dane County Parks Department, our club has been given the right to issue free permits for metal detecting in Dane County Parks. Our members are clearly informed, and held accountable, that they may not use shovels in any of the parks in our area. If they do, they will be kicked out of the club and reported to the authorities. Period.

 

[IDXMonster]

While I could mention a number of parks and communities that have closed their parkland to metal detecting because of the use of shovels, let me instead just relate one situation in the community of Janesville, WI. Janesville has a reasonable metal detecting permit system that clearly spells out what tools can be used to excavate metal detecting targets, and it doesn't include the use of Sampson (or any other) shovels. Last fall, I noted two detectorists using shovels in a Janesville park. I asked the park department what I should do when I see detectorists using shovels. They said, "Call the police immediately." The parks personnel stated that the police know that using shovels while metal detecting is strictly illegal in Janesville. So calling the police is exactly what I will do if I see those two people digging with shovels again in Janesville.

Finally, I an the secretary of the Four Lakes Metal Detector Club of Madison, WI. In working with the Dane County Parks Department, our club has been given the right to issue free permits for metal detecting in Dane County Parks. Our members are clearly informed, and held accountable, that they may not use shovels in any of the parks in our area. If they do, they will be kicked out of the club and reported to the authorities. Period.

These are examples of Permitting systems that by obtaining the permit you are agreeing to certain stipulations(trowel not more than 2” wide,etc.) Yes I know I have one for DANE County. I’ve also had the 2$ per detector permits from Jville,and had to stick to those rules as well. You said WISCONSIN,which is utter nonsense.
I’ve dug in Monroe and surrounding areas for years,never a problem. WHY? A shovel meant for the job does that job WAY better,faster and cleaner.
BTW,I’ve never found anything worthwhile in DANE County parks OR Jville,so it doesn’t even matter to me.
With that being said...thank you for what you do for the hobby! Without clubs and such some of this wouldn’t be available at all. And if I’m in those places,I will certainly abide by the rules as I have in the past.

 

[spellman]

While I could mention a number of parks and communities that have closed their parkland to metal detecting because of the use of shovels, let me instead just relate one situation in the community of Janesville, WI. Janesville has a reasonable metal detecting permit system that clearly spells out what tools can be used to excavate metal detecting targets, and it doesn't include the use of Sampson (or any other) shovels. Last fall, I noted two detectorists using shovels in a Janesville park. I asked the park department what I should do when I see detectorists using shovels. They said, "Call the police immediately." The parks personnel stated that the police know that using shovels while metal detecting is strictly illegal in Janesville. So calling the police is exactly what I will do if I see those two people digging with shovels again in Janesville.

Finally, I an the secretary of the Four Lakes Metal Detector Club of Madison, WI. In working with the Dane County Parks Department, our club has been given the right to issue free permits for metal detecting in Dane County Parks. Our members are clearly informed, and held accountable, that they may not use shovels in any of the parks in our area. If they do, they will be kicked out of the club and reported to the authorities. Period.

Yeah definitely a great idea call the cops and bring as much attention to the hobby as possible, its not the digging tool that is getting metal detecting banned in your areas its people like you that are calling attention to it by calling the cops. They have more important stuff to worry about then someone using a Sampson digger in the park while metal detecting. Shame on you, you are the problem not the guy using the shovel but the guy calling the cops. I hope it gets banned in your area and most likely it will.

 

[Beyonder]

While I could mention a number of parks and communities that have closed their parkland to metal detecting because of the use of shovels, let me instead just relate one situation in the community of Janesville, WI. Janesville has a reasonable metal detecting permit system that clearly spells out what tools can be used to excavate metal detecting targets, and it doesn't include the use of Sampson (or any other) shovels. Last fall, I noted two detectorists using shovels in a Janesville park. I asked the park department what I should do when I see detectorists using shovels. They said, "Call the police immediately." The parks personnel stated that the police know that using shovels while metal detecting is strictly illegal in Janesville. So calling the police is exactly what I will do if I see those two people digging with shovels again in Janesville.

Finally, I an the secretary of the Four Lakes Metal Detector Club of Madison, WI. In working with the Dane County Parks Department, our club has been given the right to issue free permits for metal detecting in Dane County Parks. Our members are clearly informed, and held accountable, that they may not use shovels in any of the parks in our area. If they do, they will be kicked out of the club and reported to the authorities. Period.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. I do not use a shovel in public spots, and I am against the practice, but I would never call the cops on someone in the hobby because they are using a shovel. I would give them a heads up and after that, it's up to them.

 

[Tony N (Michigan)]

It'll work Tony, but may take time to adjust that will depend with the user.

Start off in clearer areas with proper ground balance, areas with less iron and play with reactivity settings. Depending on mineralization, ground noise will eventually disappear as you increase reactivity.

You'll hear the ground noise as you swing, just use enough reactivity to smooth out the threshold and eliminate ground noise. Eventually, You'll be very comfortably using Goldfield program in thick iron.

Other Top end models use SAT speed with prospecting mode to increase recovery, same applies here increase SAT to smooth out threshold and eliminate ground noise. I've used this for years, prospecting mode in areas with mineralization will enhance detection.

It's a tough feature to learn and understand but it works, Good luck Tony!

Paul

Thanks for the nice post buddy!

 

[Tony N (Michigan)]

Hello Tony,

Yes, Faster recovery speed decreases depth under most conditions. However, under some conditions it'll increase depth. Such as tougher mineralization, or extreanmy trashy areas especially laced with iron.

Masking, robs away depth. You'll see this more with Goldfield program on the Deus, too much ground noise is eliminated with increasing reactivity. If you don't increase reactivity when needed, you'll loose depth due to poor stabitily.

Reactivity is a great feature, know when to increase or when to decrease.

Good to hear from you Tony!
Paul
I never thought about using the Goldfield program. I wonder if it would
be good to use in medium sandy soil here in Michigan in a yard with

a lot of old iron square cut nails?

I think it would work ok from what I saw testing yesterday the target id did well recognizing in gold field as well

[size=large]I wonder if the ultra-fast reset on the Equinox = less depth like it does on the Deus? That's what I'm really wanting to know.[/size]

 

[sgoss66]

While I could mention a number of parks and communities that have closed their parkland to metal detecting because of the use of shovels, let me instead just relate one situation in the community of Janesville, WI. Janesville has a reasonable metal detecting permit system that clearly spells out what tools can be used to excavate metal detecting targets, and it doesn't include the use of Sampson (or any other) shovels. Last fall, I noted two detectorists using shovels in a Janesville park. I asked the park department what I should do when I see detectorists using shovels. They said, "Call the police immediately." The parks personnel stated that the police know that using shovels while metal detecting is strictly illegal in Janesville. So calling the police is exactly what I will do if I see those two people digging with shovels again in Janesville.

Finally, I an the secretary of the Four Lakes Metal Detector Club of Madison, WI. In working with the Dane County Parks Department, our club has been given the right to issue free permits for metal detecting in Dane County Parks. Our members are clearly informed, and held accountable, that they may not use shovels in any of the parks in our area. If they do, they will be kicked out of the club and reported to the authorities. Period.

Cos --

I can see that you didn't even address, or consider, the reasoning I offered. You have your opinion, and it's clearly not negotiable. So, no sense in my continuing discussing.

I will say that if a park says "no long-handled diggers, only screwdrivers or hand trowels," then I would absolutely, positively abide by that. No questions asked.

But -- I do wish you'd focus a bit more on PROPER TECHNIQUE, and less on the "tools used" to accomplish PROPER TECHNIQUE. It's hard for me to understand that if you have one guy who is "less neat" with his Lesche hand digger, than I am with my 38D, that he is "automatically right" while I am "automatically wrong."

Steve

 

[sunraysux]

....and THISsssss is exactly why i strictly hunt permission private properties any more!!!!
this "hobby" becomes mercenary, petty, childish and NO FUN when it denigrates into this crap.....
i dig nice big round holes with my shovel and the blessings of the property owners....
i lock down into my quiet little earphoned world and forget about all the small minded litigious self-righteous, self-important wind bags that have invaded this country and will surely bring it to its knees soon......

 

[Zinc Penny]

....and THISsssss is exactly why i strictly hunt permission private properties any more!!!!
this "hobby" becomes mercenary, petty, childish and NO FUN when it denigrates into this crap.....
i dig nice big round holes with my shovel and the blessings of the property owners....
i lock down into my quiet little earphoned world and forget about all the small minded litigious self-righteous, self-important wind bags that have invaded this country and will surely bring it to its knees soon......

I've never had to care about digging anywhere as I know every single official in my city and they are all supportive of metal detecting and the cops will actually get on people who make a big fuss over it. Had some old lady give me a bunch of BS over it once. Police officer told her that he wasn't going to do anything that it's legal and I just get on with doing what I want.

 

[Doctorcoinz]

I would hate digging in a park with baked hard soil like you guy's in the states do. We are lucky here in the UK that the soil is either wringing wet or moist for many months of the year .
I am an excellent plug cutter having cut thousands of nice plugs that are hard to see, but in the summer when ground is hard i can't do such a good job and some times "horse shoes" can be seen where the hole was dug.

 

[TomNH]

I wont use a shovel in a park setting even though IMHO its better for the grass. It just looks bad to
the uninformed. I also wont dig grass when its very dry. In the woods & beaches its different. Out
comes the shovel but I still use a trowel for the shallow stuff.
Do EVERYTHING you can to keep a low profile !
Sadly these days it only takes one whiner to change things on a national level.
What MDing needs is the NRA for diggers. Just think of all the archeologist that want to stop us.
Claim we destroy history. Truth is they do too & dont forget that. Just want it all for themselfs.

enuf few now
Tom
LFOD !