F75 LTD vs Racer Intrigue

[LowGrowlSal]

I have an F75 LTD w DST. I like the machine, but I am very intrigued with the Makro Racer. Doing research, I see there are a few differences in features and price.

Granted, it's not released to the general public, but I have four gnawing questions.

(1.) F75 Type Depth - If performance is the same as (or better) the Fors Core, what are relalistic depth comparisons to the F75 LTD w DST? I am a capable user, but hunt 90% of time for CW relics (10% Coins) in good ground. My old XLT could get 12" on a bullet with a low growl sound. I hunt mainly by sound, and use the meter only as back up.

(2.) Coin or Relic - I am a firm believer that most multi-purpose machines are either coin or relic. Call it bias based on my own personal experience :clsoedeyes:. I hunt 90% for relics (10% for Coins) in very good ground (low mineralization). We all know the power of the F75 LTD to the relic community. I just wonder if that same sense will translate into the Racer.

(3.) Chatter - I always felt the one drawback to the F75 was running it on edge, yet keeping it balanced with EMI, other detectors...etc. I never had an issue with XLT. When I did, it was simple automatic ground balance with the push of a button. Not the tweaking of knobs..etc. Plus, as a slow overlapping hunter, I found the Iron Falsing to be rough due to the constant rechecking of signals. Although the upgrades to DST has helped, it's just a little too much to question always whether or not I have crossed the line into Chatter.

(4.) Pricing - At $250 less ($849 Racer Pro Bundle vs $1,099 LTD bundle), are you getting what you pay for? Again, it's the person, not the machine that generally = success. But, a machine can really help narrow the gap in right hands. Is the difference a factor of currency rates, cheaper labor rates, entry level pricing...etc.? If so, I am good with that. If it helps on my 3 key issues above, I am all in. But, if pricing knocks me back a step on Relic hunting, then perhaps I wait.

Again, I am not hear to disparage the F75. Great machine. But if I can achieve similar DEPTH, for RELICS, that reduces (or makes it easier) to deal with CHATTER, and PRICING is a factor of deals/origin of manufacture, I am all in.

I really appreciate your guidance on this question. I know it is a broad topic and we have yet to see the unit in the hands of most of the talented people on this forum, but any guidance is greatly appreciated.

PS: I keep an AT Pro as a back-up machine and for nail/Fence areas. Great machine and some change up simply to play with more toys .

Sincerely,

LowGrowlSal

 

[squirrel1]

How in the world would your questions get answered when the detector (Racer) is NOT released?? Do you want a fantasy response??

 

[LowGrowlSal]

Squirrel1:

I have been shocked in the past with people's responses to unknown machines/questions. I think it's a combination of gut, rumor, conjecture, and simple supposition. Understanding that Testers need to keep within their confidentiality as well.

But in this case, we may have more to go on than just Fantasy. If the statement that "performance is the same as (or better) the Fors CoRe", then I think that is a start.

Also, I know Makro/Nokta has aggressively been seeking input who's responses allow us to peek between the lines. Perhaps, the 4 items above are the ones where I simply cannot read into. Maybe, just maybe, someone closer to the solution has.

But in the end, with no guarantees in new detectors as in life, if I feel comfortable that the items above have been improved, I may be the one to satisfy everyone's fantasy with facts!

Thanks for the question Squirrel1 and making me think further into weeds. Perhaps I should have been a Private Investigator !

 

[bubbadirect]

Squirrel1:

I have been shocked in the past with people's responses to unknown machines/questions. I think it's a combination of gut, rumor, conjecture, and simple supposition. Understanding that Testers need to keep within their confidentiality as well.

But in this case, we may have more to go on than just Fantasy. If the statement that "performance is the same as (or better) the Fors CoRe", then I think that is a start.

Also, I know Makro/Nokta has aggressively been seeking input who's responses allow us to peek between the lines. Perhaps, the 4 items above are the ones where I simply cannot read into. Maybe, just maybe, someone closer to the solution has.

But in the end, with no guarantees in new detectors as in life, if I feel comfortable that the items above have been improved, I may be the one to satisfy everyone's fantasy with facts!

Thanks for the question Squirrel1 and making me think further into weeds. Perhaps I should have been a Private Investigator !

LowGrowlSal-----KEEP YOUR UPDATED F75! I'm telling ya dude!

 

[togg77]

Bubbadirect please for my info tell why you say to keep the F75/DST--for CW relic hunting I hunt mostly in AM and the updated F75's AM is less than the discrim.side,so Many who have had the update done to their F75's report. Thanks for your input.

 

[bubbadirect]

Bubbadirect please for my info tell why you say to keep the F75/DST--for CW relic hunting I hunt mostly in AM and the updated F75's AM is less than the discrim.side,so Many who have had the update done to their F75's report. Thanks for your input.

Togg77, lowgrowlsal is a dear detecting friend of mine. My suggestion to him was to keep the F75 LTD with the 12-14 upgrade and see "how it does better" than the pre upgraded F75, BEFORE he even thinks of purchasing a RACER or CoRe. I think that with the places "we hunt, together at times" that he should at least give the upgraded version a try, before pulling the trigger and spending the $850 on these new models.

That's all.

I personally have ZERO experience with the F75, RACER, or CoRe so I can't testify to the pros/cons of any of these models listed. :-(

Bubba

 

[sprchng]

The only objective reports I've seen buy testers who don't have a dog in the hunt and actually provide some concrete data tell me the Racer and CoRe for that matter are good values that will run with the 75ltd2 with the small coil. With the 11" coil the 75 pulls ahead and gives you more in the way of features (boost , cache , tones ) and is a known commodity. I would say the new guys are essentially equivalent to the T2 if you want to find it's nearest peer

 

[togg77]

My reason for asking is that it seems that the upgraded F75's are still bug ridden. On the Fisher form at this moment are a number of people who are having problems with their new or updated F75's and it seems to be a hit or miss situation if the 75 you get is good or bad. One guy is on his FOURTH return and if you call Fisher they will tell you that there is no depth loss in AM with the upgrade and this is simply not true. I hope your buddy has a good one and is successful.

 

[squirrel1]

Squirrel1:

I have been shocked in the past with people's responses to unknown machines/questions. I think it's a combination of gut, rumor, conjecture, and simple supposition. Understanding that Testers need to keep within their confidentiality as well.

But in this case, we may have more to go on than just Fantasy. If the statement that "performance is the same as (or better) the Fors CoRe", then I think that is a start.

Also, I know Makro/Nokta has aggressively been seeking input who's responses allow us to peek between the lines. Perhaps, the 4 items above are the ones where I simply cannot read into. Maybe, just maybe, someone closer to the solution has.

But in the end, with no guarantees in new detectors as in life, if I feel comfortable that the items above have been improved, I may be the one to satisfy everyone's fantasy with facts!

Thanks for the question Squirrel1 and making me think further into weeds. Perhaps I should have been a Private Investigator !

I feel I owe you an apology. There is data now available or data that's very close. Since the Racer has been tested.

 

[LowGrowlSal]

No apology needed Squirrel1.

 

[Cal_Cobra]

You may find this field test posted by NasaTom interesting as he makes comparisons to the F75 & T2:

So far. . . . I have tested the Racer on the bench and test-garden. My findings/thoughts....... thus far:

Here is my lengthy dissertation on assembly & ergonomics: Far above average.

_______________________________________________________

Thoughts/feelings:
Extreme similarities to F75/T2 platform. . . . . . such as: audio language, nearly identical 11" x 7" elliptical DD coil, VDI 00 - 40 is iron...... identical to T2, nickel ID & dime ID nearly identical to T2, push/pull trigger switch functionality, similar menu tooling/thought process...... and a host of other features. For those that own/use a T2 or F75........ the learning curve is very short/easy/comfortable. K.I.S.S. theory employed. Exceptionally easy to set up & learn. No 'multiple menu's and/or sub-menu's' to contend with.

With a Sens of '60'...... the unit is nearly at max depth. Any additional boost in sensitivity (for the most part) only increases the audio volume on weak/deep/fringe targets. This is to say..... the modulated audio is circumvented when increasing Sens above the 60 - 65 range....... with the 11" DD coil. Sensitivity on this unit is called 'GAIN'.

ID FILTER is your Disc circuit. It's span is the entire spectrum....... from 00 - 99. Yes, some depth is lost ..... when Disc is increased. So far....... a ID FILTER setting of '5' is where I can achieve the most depth with the most acceptable amount of chatter. This unit does not have a adjustable tone-break. Thus far......... it looks like it may not be needed. Real-world testing/results will dictate.

AUDIO TONE ..... adjusts the tone of target responses .... to your specific hearing likings. I like higher audio responses for my best audible resolution/intelligibility.

Here is where things get interesting (important): the depth of all-metal mode ... vs ... ID mode is identical (once again..... in my inert Florida dirt). In fact .... the better/more intelligible selection.... is the 2-tone mode. This is the deepest mode. So far...... it appears to be a 15% reduction in depth performance in 3-tone mode....... and a greater loss in depth in "Beach" (wet salt phase shift compensation) mode...... as to be expected...... especially for this single freq unit. It's primary design intent is turf...... not wet salt.

This units ID accuracy is nearly identical to T2/F75 platform. Very accurate at shallow/medium depths....... then presents more jumpy/wider VDI span..... as targets become deep.

Test garden performance (Florida inert dirt base-reference: With 11" x 7" elliptical DD coil installed........ depth is identical to 1st Gen F75 performance on a low conductive nickel and high conductive dime. Adjacent target separation characteristics also appear to be identical. (Real world hunting scenario will be the 'tell-all').

Freq Shift is quite important. Finding the overall best freq selection....... so as to mitigate EMI does indeed affect overall depth/performance. There are 5 selections to choose from........ and seem to be a bit more effective vs T2/F75.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The small 5" concentric DD coil is an eye-opener. Installed........ the Racer performs nearly identical in performance to the F75 SE in 'boost process' mode..... with 5" DD coil installed. Same performance/depth. Exacting numbers: 10.6" on a clad dime in Florida dirt. The 11" coil performs like a 'non-boost' process F75 with like-item 11" DD coil installed. Real-world performance measuring/testing to ensue. . . . . . to include head-to-head with GMP & F75LTD.

 

[doc holiday]

For half the price.

 

[sprchng]

For half the price.

Half? Where can I get one with the 2 coils for $515.?...shipped

 

[doc holiday]

You do understand "rounding off"?? LOL

 

[JimmyCT]

Thanks Cal for posting!

This information is very nice news to hear. With all the reports and initial testing the "edge" with having the Racer would be the machines ability (straight out of the box) to discern good from bad in heavy iron contamination. I look forward to more real world testing from Nasa Tom.

The small 5" concentric DD coil is an eye-opener. Installed........ the Racer performs nearly identical in performance to the F75 SE in 'boost process' mode..... with 5" DD coil installed. Same performance/depth. Exacting numbers: 10.6" on a clad dime in Florida dirt. The 11" coil performs like a 'non-boost' process F75 with like-item 11" DD coil installed. Real-world performance measuring/testing to ensue. . . . . . to include head-to-head with GMP & F75LTD.

 

[Justin E]

I look forward to some real world head to head comparisons to some of the other detectors, like the new version the T2. Would love to see those videos.