Excal Operation?

[Mike (Virginia Beach)]

>>> suspect there's deeper targets, but I've been too impatient to put in the time to listen for these deepies <<<

Yeah, I hear ya. I get the PRETTY deepies, but if I can't get at least a semi-repeatable signal in a probably-good range, I move on.

 

[Art (NWOH)]

On the subject of weaker hits and tone range......
I have had edge coins that hit so low they sounded like foil...almost. Something about the response did not have that "sick" sound of foil. It was a more smooth up and down. Working around to the right position the tone really came up , gave a good ID, and gave the typical broken ping. But in between the two angles it sounded like crap and would have been passed over as junk.
These kinds of targets are easily passed over if you don't take the time check each one to see if it is bad from at least a couple directions. Not real practical in a high trash area unless you are desperate, but a good thing to do if you have the time in the cleaner places.
Have to wonder how many good targets have been passed over because they were swept from the wrong direction or discriminated out.....
Then there are the ones that have to be swept from the right direction to pick them up at all.
Guess it depends on how much time and effort you want to put into it.

HH

 

[Mike (Virginia Beach)]

Agree, totally.

One thing I have ofter wondered. I have found a ton of silver coins over the years and have done extremely well on the beach detecting as well, with many nice rings and things. Of course at the beach I never discriminate anything out.

But on land I do. And I've never found a gold coin, in all my years of detecting. And I know there are MANY who have not. But I've often wondered how many of THOSE I may have passed up, by knocking out "trash" or leaving the "iffy" ones alone.

 

[Art (NWOH)]

Gold coins were worth a lot of money back then. Doubtful that they would have been carried as carelessly as we carry around pocket change now.

If I ever find one, it probably will be because I am a sucker for those unusual sounding hits. I just have to see what they are. I dig up anything that sounds different from the usual junk. Of course this requires some junk digging at a new location to find out what the typical junk will be at that location....time well spent in my opinoin.

HH

 

[Cal_Cobra]

After passing over iron null the threshold comes back as a low growl, to let you know it was iron, not as nothing, same on the sov, excal, Explorer SE(in pitch hold)

To be honest, I've never heard my Sov growl (I'm using a XS2a-pro) ... it just nulls to silence until it hits something else.

 

[Cal_Cobra]

If I ever find one, it probably will be because I am a sucker for those unusual sounding hits. I just have to see what they are. I dig up anything that sounds different from the usual junk.

I actually get excited when I get a signal out of the ordinary as rings, all being somewhat different, usually come in as something out of the ordinary. Of course more often then not it's trash, but the few pieces of jewelery I've found with my Sov have rang in as something unusual.

 

[Mike (Virginia Beach)]

>>> To be honest, I've never heard my Sov growl (I'm using a XS2a-pro) ... it just nulls to silence until it hits something else. <<<

Nail > Head > BAM!

 

[Art (NWOH)]

Mine don't do that.
The only way it will null and stay nulled for any length of time is when the sensitivity is too high or sweep speed too fast over dirt with too much iron content. Hold the coil still and the threshold returns with the iron buzz.
These things indicate improper operating procedures for conditions.
HH

 

[kered]

To be honest, I've never heard my Sov growl (I'm using a XS2a-pro) ... it just nulls to silence until it hits something else.

Maybe you have the threshold a tad low to hear it

 

[Mike (Virginia Beach)]

Are you talking about on the beach Art, in the wet salt sand? Because that's what I'm talking about. I've seen the Sovereign Elite do it, the Sovereign GT, the Excal, and the Excal II.

And if it's not set right for conditions, you could have fooled me because it runs with a nice smooth threshold, goes plenty deep and finds lots of gold and diamond rings.

 

[Art (NWOH)]

Talking about dirt, Mike.
Maybe I don't understand....How do you have a nice smooth threshold if there is no threshold after a iron null??
The only time I ever see a constant null is from too much iron for the settings....either in mineral or real objects.

What happens if you just sit the coil on the ground and don't move it??

The only other way I can see this happening is when iron content in the ground gets lit up from heavy electrical interference.

Maybe I will just have to concede that it is possible to have this threshold for iron missing even though I have never seen it happen.

 

[Art (NWOH)]

Mike...
I was just giving this some thought while drinking a beer.

Have seen the 2a null on hot rocks in both disc and am. Even saw a tennis bracelet do it. This makes me wonder if there is something about the confused recieve signals from these things that wacks the detector out? Sand is ground up rock, right? Could this cause a continuous null, since the beach would act like one huge hot rock??

Remember one time the 2a locked up when I used the uniprobe.
Processor gets confused on what it should be doing???

The GT is less prone to this on rocks, but more prone to a positive hit.
HH

 

[Mike (Virginia Beach)]

Well, it's like this.

Cruising along, with a VERY slight threshold...a gentle buzz...and the volume up at maybe 3/4's. My sensitivity with the Excal and the 10" coil is usually about 11 o'clock...MAYBE 12 o'clock if I'm with another hunter, as this reduces "cross-talk" significantly. Nice smooth threshold. Here comes a hit...it's a quarter, I can tell from the tone shift. And the threshold shifts as well, so that after I dig the quarter (which DOES turn out to be a quarter) I now have a high-pitched threshold. And so I begin swinging again. Now the next target is a penny. And so the threshold shifts a LITTLE lower. And I dig the penny and move on. And then I hit a nickel, which gives me a much lower tone of course than the penny. And the threshold stays at that tone when I continue to hunt. This is the way the BBS machines work...the threshold takes on the tone of the last detected target.

So now the next target I get is a null. Maybe it's a rusty fish hook. Maybe it's a stainless steel washer. Maybe it's an old nail. At any rate, it's a solid null. So mostly I tend to NOT dig those. But now I have no threshold. Because the "tone shift" has now shifted to NOTHING, shifting to the tone of the last detected target. And at least with the Excal, what is required is to "flash' my beach scoop in close proximity to the coil, to "jog" it back to having a threshold. Sometimes slapping the coil on the wet sand a few times will bring the threshold back too. Or I can splash it in the water a few times and it will come back. But generally speaking, there needs to be SOME impetus to bring the machine BACK from a null threshold.

Now I will admit that this condition is somewhat less prevalent with the GT. But it still does it. The Excal does it regularly. And it's not a big deal...it's just a fact of life. In fact, I often just "roll with it" because I know as soon as I get another valid target, the tone will shift and I will have a threshold again. But most of the time I like to hear that buzz, so I will "help" the machine out a little and just do a quick "fly by" with my scoop and the threshold comes back. This has been talked about and mentioned MANY times on the forums, so I know I'm not the only one who has experienced this.

Maybe if I were running my machine with a little higher threshold or a little hotter sensitivity (or lower, maybe) the problem might not be as pronounced. Don't know, don't really care. I have learned to deal with it and it's not an issue at all for me now. It's just something I'm aware of and compensate for.

 

[Art (NWOH)]

I understand what you mean now, but have never had it happen to me. An iron hit has always returned a low buzz after a null.

Have to wonder why it can do this . Must be some kind of reason. Maybe won't worry about it.
If they did this in dirt, you would be in silent search all the time in most of the places I have hunted.

Thanks for the good explanation of what you are seeing. Have a good evening, and may more gold come your way.

HH

 

[Cal_Cobra]

I should have indicated that I'm talking about at the beach, the threshold always returns when turf hunting unless I'm swinging to fast or have the sensitivity out of whack. At the beach if I wait a second the threshold will return, and I run it slightly audible +1 as I like to hear what's in the ground.

Today I did a little surf and turf with the Sov. The beach I hit is challenging because it's surrounded by communications equipment so the Sov can get a little excitable as it did today, so I mostly had to run in auto (first time at this beach actually). Jewelery is fairly rare at this beach, but there's a good chance to pick up old coins. Most of the time it's sanded in and the pickings are slim, but today I hit a little honey hole and managed to pick up a nice little old religious medallion, what appears to be a piece of copper or gold (low karat content if so) crusted up with sea muck, a silver spoon, a pocket full of change and the biggest fishing weight I've seen in a long time (looks more like an artillery shell!) , but no oldies this time (I've found barbers here before).

Then I hit an old park, but the best I could muster up today in the golden oldies department was a 1950's wheatie , and more clad (two dimes were a year shy of the silver era

 

[NamVetLesTreasureSeeker]

Art, I think the difference discribed between you and Mike has to do with just how SOFT of a Threshold BUZZ is used by the particular detectorist!! I have been using a SOFTER BUZZ since reading Clive Cynick's Book on FINDING GOLD & SILVER with the EXCALIBUR Detector, and sometimes when it NULLS OUT, the
SOFTER Threshold TOTALLY DISAPPEARS until I re-adjust the threshold. When I use a LITTLE BIT LOUDER Threshold BUZZ and it NULLS OUT because of
going over a DEFINITE PIECE of IRON, it will RETURN with the LOW GROWL Threshold Buzz!! But, I have ALWAYS USED a LOW MILD Threshold BUZZ, and always
got the LOW GROWL, when it NULLED OUT after going over a piece of IRON. It is just recently, that I have LOWERED the threshold buzz to JUST BARELY AUDIBLE!! Hope this helps, hh, Les Robinson

 

[Art (NWOH)]

Les...
I can turn the threshold down so low that I really have to listen to it, and still hear any pitch it puts out.
I don't run that low when hunting, however. I set it so I can hear it, but after a couple minutes without any hits or threshold changes I don't even know it's there unless there is a change. A little like listening to a fan or something else once you get used to it....you don't even hear it unless it suddenly stops or starts making a funny noise.

What Mike is talking about is something I have never seen. I don't know if it is a processor glitch or a slight difference in components causing this.

Sometimes the complaint is that the iron buzz is very loud compared to the other threshold sounds. I don't know if this has something to do with the headphone response at that freq or not. Has not been a problem on either of my sovs.

HH

 

[kered]

On my Elite i have to first pass over my digger(iron) it gives a null then the threshold comes back as the iron growl/buzz. i then adjust the threshold so that it is barely audable and away we go. Good targets come in loud and clear.

If i switch on and adjust the threshold to the first switch on tone on passing iron i get the null but the threshold doesn't come back till i pass over something with a higher tone.(or turn up the threshold)so if i left it like this i could pass over varios iron objects one after the other or something very deep and not know its there.

On the XS2aPro i can set up on the inicial tone and after a null it comes back as a growl with the same intensity as a good target

Basically i think that its because the threshold is set differently in the two machines(on the internal pot) and therefore the threshold should be set on this iron growl. I have tried other Sov's and found that no two machine give the same intensity in the threshold after a null compared to the threshold after a good target.

the way it should be according to the manual
From the GT manual
For example, if you are searching in the Discriminate mode and you have just detected a coin, the threshold
will remain at the tone of the coin signal, but when you pass over a junk target such as a nail, the Audio will
NULL (go silent) over the nail, and the threshold, when it returns, will drop to a lower tone. This can be a
useful feature, as unlike other detectors using Silent Search discrimination modes, you still ignore the junk
targets, but you know when you have passed over them and can estimate the conductivity that they have.

I know this is not the Excalibur but basically they are the same machine

 

[Mike (Virginia Beach)]

Yeah, they are basically the same machine, but as you have said, the threshold acts differently from model to model and particular machine to particular machine.

I have USED the Sovereign XS2a Pro and have owned the Elite, the GT, and the Excal and all have similar but different tones and threshold characteristics. Then there are the coils, the headphones, and the locale that we hunt. Many variables, to be sure.

 

[mblemmy]

with close to a pound in gold jewlrey with the excal. a faint threshhold is the way to go. i would say 70% of my nicest finds would have been missed if set any other way. i always reset my tone with my scoop to a high pitch. a deep item most of the time just drops the tone till i center up on it...


good luck all !!!



mikeB

excal/etrac swinger