EQUINOX technologies.......

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

FBS 2 goes as high as 100khz. So where is the gain with the EQ going to 40 khz coming from? Just an honest question.

No way FBS 2 is hitting 100khz, otherwise it'd be killer on small gold, it actually sucks in that dept, but, that's just my opinion.

Se Pro won't get a tone on any of this gold even if you rub it on the coil, my other machine at 56 kHz hits them all. That round piece of 14k with the fake stone hits solid at 3 inches on my other machine, not a peep from the Se Pro.

 

[Architex]

I got the 100 khz info from Minelab's web site: (and I quote)


"Full Band Spectrum 2 (FBS 2)
(used in CTX 3030 detector)

FBS 2 diagram

FBS 2 combines Minelab's FBS multiple frequency rectangular-wave transmission (1.5 kHz –100 kHz) with advanced digital coil-to-detector communications. The precisely calibrated smart coils and detector electronics allow advanced signal analysis for more accurate detection."

 

[Hello]

Thanks for the link...

A quote from the link >>> "however BBS/FBS still have an advantage for finding high conductive silver coins in all conditions." The Etrac and CTX still will rule the old silver coin world. I love my Etrac and CTX. I will buy the 800 for my grandson to use when he is here in Oregon.

A quote from another detector manufacturer said common sense tells you that fbs/bbs wont be any deeper than the lowest probing single frequency VLF detector, not sure if it went to court this was about 17 years ago and they said it was false advertising after Minelab were showing a diagram of their Explorer detectors probing much deeper than their competitors,

Hello,

What you were told by that other detector manufacturer ONE -- misses the point, and TWO -- I dare say is false.

FALSE, because if one machine is transmitting with greater power than a second machine of the same frequency, there COULD be a depth gain, but more importantly, if one detector does a better job dealing with the ground matrix than a second machine running the same frequency, the one dealing with the ground better would detect targets deeper. CLEARLY, some machines are deeper than others. Period. FALSE statement, whoever said it.

But, second, it MISSES THE POINT because, as others have alluded to in previous posts, multi-frequency can (and in the case of FBS, DOES) give you better target ID with depth. What good is a machine that can detect an 8" dime, but IDs it solidly as iron, versus a second machine that detects the same 8" dime, but IDs it as a dime? This is EXACTLY the scenario I have dealt with, with single-frequency machines versus FBS. I had an F70 that would detect ANY "deep" coin with a "15" ID -- in other words, IRON. Anything whatsoever beyond 7-8" gave a solid "IRON" ID number. Meanwhile, my Explorer can ID a coin with relatively good accuracy to the very limits of its depth capability. In terms of raw depth, the F70 was deeper -- ESPECIALLY in all-metal mode. By a few inches even. But accurate ID with depth, FBS is more accurate in my dirt by a good 3-4"...

Steve

yes it could well be false ive never owed a FBS machine it was a publicized statement i read in a metal detecting magazine. IVE managed to find a small reference to it online from another forum (Tres...net
"What upset many detector users was that C-Scope managed to get the Minelab ad withdrawn that showed one frequency going a couple of inches into the soil, two going a few more and ....multifrequency going way deeper by proving that on all but the most highly mineralised sites a single frequency could go as deep or deeper."

 

[Southwind]

I think what keeps getting ignored here is the key words "Accurate target ID at depth". A big difference between being able to say I've found coins with my single frequency deeper than the E-Trac.

I have had many detector that could go as deep as the E-Trac/CTX when it comes to just plain digging anything that makes a sound. I have never had any of those detector with as accurate target ID at the depth of my E-Trac. For some VDI and accurate target ID is not a factor, but for myself, and I believe many others, knowing when you have a deep coin is very important. multifrequency has much more accurate target ID than a single frequency.

 

[Dan(NM)]

I got the 100 khz info from Minelab's web site: (and I quote)


"Full Band Spectrum 2 (FBS 2)
(used in CTX 3030 detector)

FBS 2 diagram

FBS 2 combines Minelab's FBS multiple frequency rectangular-wave transmission (1.5 kHz –100 kHz) with advanced digital coil-to-detector communications. The precisely calibrated smart coils and detector electronics allow advanced signal analysis for more accurate detection."

Hey Architex, I wasn't disputing you, just what Minelab has said about the 100khz claim. My Racer 2 hit my test nuggets very good for a VLF, my Etrac and CTX, not a peep.

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

I got the 100 khz info from Minelab's web site: (and I quote)


"Full Band Spectrum 2 (FBS 2)
(used in CTX 3030 detector)

FBS 2 diagram

FBS 2 combines Minelab's FBS multiple frequency rectangular-wave transmission (1.5 kHz –100 kHz) with advanced digital coil-to-detector communications. The precisely calibrated smart coils and detector electronics allow advanced signal analysis for more accurate detection."

FBS uses/processes harmonic frequencies of the "rectangular wave transmission". So 2nd, 3rd, 4th order harmonic frequencies, but here's the catch...the harmonics are weaker, the 3rd harmonic is weaker than the 2nd, 4th weaker than the 3rd, and so on. So 100 kHz yes technically but if FBS 100 kHz is say a 5th order harmonic, a single frequency detector transmitting at 100 kHz will be much stronger. This assumes Minelab is even using the 100 kHz harmonic for detecting a target, instead they may be using that 100 kHz for ground rejection.

What I find interesting about the Equinox is this image on Minelab's blog, does it transmit a fundamental frequency at all 5 of those frequencies in multi-frequency mode? That would be interesting because if so then it would be a full power at each of those frequencies, hence at 40 kHz it would be at full power on small gold vs say FBS being a 3rd or 5th order harmonic at 40 kHz. And if its also using harmonics of all 5 of those frequencies which the graphic seems to suggest in single frequency mode, with each frequency overlapping the other then very interesting indeed.

 

[nagant]

Charles the blurb below that image caught my eye big time....... "20 kHz and 40 kHz are not available as single operating frequencies in EQUINOX 600. The Multi-IQ frequency range shown applies to both EQUINOX 600 and 800. This diagram is representative only. Actual sensitivity levels will depend upon target types and sizes, ground conditions and detector settings " So in multi freq. they are the same!

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

Open question, if its transmits at full power at all 5 frequencies in multi-frequency mode then why ever use it in single frequency mode?

 

[Architex]

Minelab's "Knowledge Base" doesn't say a word about 100 khz being less effective but in-field results seem to indicate that. Wonder what they're not saying about Multi-IQ.

 

[Southwind]

Open question, if its transmits at full power at all 5 frequencies in multi-frequency mode then why ever use it in single frequency mode?

Good question. Now I'm not sure if the Whites DFX transmits full power to both 3.5 kHz & 15 kHz when run in multimode, but I can attest to the fact that if you run in single 15 kHz on the DFX it will pick up a lot smaller gold better. I've got a video on Youtube showing a comparison of the DFX in Best Data/Multimode compared to single 15 kHz and it is easy to see the difference.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu5_ygs_5L4[/video]

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

Open question, if its transmits at full power at all 5 frequencies in multi-frequency mode then why ever use it in single frequency mode?

Good question. Now I'm not sure if the Whites DFX transmits full power to both 3.5 kHz & 15 kHz when run in multimode, but I can attest to the fact that if you run in single 15 kHz on the DFX it will pick up a lot smaller gold better. I've got a video on Youtube showing a comparison of the DFX in Best Data/Multimode compared to single 15 kHz and it is easy to see the difference.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu5_ygs_5L4[/video]

Once the Equinox arrives I'll be testing single vs multi-frequency on various size targets each single frequency is suited for and we'll just see if there's a difference. I guess I could make a case that if I was hunting only deep cache type targets and didn't want to be bothered with small targets going single low frequency might be useful, using the lack of the other frequencies as a form discrimination or notching. Ditto if I was hunting small jewelry at the highest frequency, which will only be detectable a few inches deep, then basically turn off all the other frequencies.

 

[Bryan V]

Open question, if its transmits at full power at all 5 frequencies in multi-frequency mode then why ever use it in single frequency mode?

If I remember correctly, in one of the first videos the Minelab rep said that each hunt mode will have its own custom multi frequency...
Also the small print under the Multi-IQ graph says " Actual sensitivity levels will depend upon target types and sizes, ground conditions and detector settings."

Bryan

 

[Cal_Cobra]

I got the 100 khz info from Minelab's web site: (and I quote)


"Full Band Spectrum 2 (FBS 2)
(used in CTX 3030 detector)

FBS 2 diagram

FBS 2 combines Minelab's FBS multiple frequency rectangular-wave transmission (1.5 kHz –100 kHz) with advanced digital coil-to-detector communications. The precisely calibrated smart coils and detector electronics allow advanced signal analysis for more accurate detection."

FBS uses/processes harmonic frequencies of the "rectangular wave transmission". So 2nd, 3rd, 4th order harmonic frequencies, but here's the catch...the harmonics are weaker, the 3rd harmonic is weaker than the 2nd, 4th weaker than the 3rd, and so on. So 100 kHz yes technically but if FBS 100 kHz is say a 5th order harmonic, a single frequency detector transmitting at 100 kHz will be much stronger. This assumes Minelab is even using the 100 kHz harmonic for detecting a target, instead they may be using that 100 kHz for ground rejection.

What I find interesting about the Equinox is this image on Minelab's blog, does it transmit a fundamental frequency at all 5 of those frequencies in multi-frequency mode? That would be interesting because if so then it would be a full power at each of those frequencies, hence at 40 kHz it would be at full power on small gold vs say FBS being a 3rd or 5th order harmonic at 40 kHz. And if its also using harmonics of all 5 of those frequencies which the graphic seems to suggest in single frequency mode, with each frequency overlapping the other then very interesting indeed.

I believe at Detectaval the Minelab engineer said that each mode (park, field, beach, prospecting, etc) would have a different set of frequencies in multi-frequency mode tailored specifically to that type of hunt mode, and that the prospecting mode was multi-frequency only.

 

[jtalley007]

BBS and FBS must behave differently than traditional single frequency machines?

I've always had a theory that Minelabs favor the lower frequencies since they don't respond at all or well to small gold.

If the upper frequencies were coming into play they would be killers on gold?

JMHO

Jerry

 

[Wayfarer]

A slightly tweaked multi-freq for each mode or type of hunting would make sense. If you were looking for deep silver, for instance, you'd want a multi-freq that was more heavily biased towards the lower freqs, like 5, 10, and 15. If you were looking for small gold jewelry, you'd still want the benefits of multi-freq for ground cancelling, but you'd want it hotter on small low conductors, so you'd want a bias toward the higher freqs, like 15, 20, and 40.

Rather than calling the modes, "park," "field," etc., maybe it would have made more sense to call the modes "high conductor," "low conductor?" But I think you are onto something here, that basically that's what the modes are. Park is essentially low conductor biased, field is mid conductor, beach is high-mid good for gold jewelry, and prospecting is high conductor only for tiny gold nuggets.

Why wouldn't they be able to vary the power in each frequency in multi-freq mode to suit particular target types? Makes sense to me.

 

[bugg]

Brian, I thought the beach mode was multi......from my memory of the same video.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Rather than calling the modes, "park," "field," etc., maybe it would have made more sense to call the modes "high conductor," "low conductor?"

Because most of the people who buy these detectors arent the geek level of this that we are. high and low conductor is meaningless and confusing to them. So they name them for where you hunt because most are after similar targets in each area.

 

[Ksdirt]

common sense....well put Jason....high and low conductor ...I met one on a train once.....

 

[Wayfarer]

Rather than calling the modes, "park," "field," etc., maybe it would have made more sense to call the modes "high conductor," "low conductor?"

Because most of the people who buy these detectors arent the geek level of this that we are. high and low conductor is meaningless and confusing to them. So they name them for where you hunt because most are after similar targets in each area.

You're probably right. Maybe then: Park=Coins, Field=Relics&Jewelry, Beach=Small Jewelry&Gold, Prospecting=Prospecting.

My main point was that the different multi modes are probably programmed so they emphasize low freqs to hit hard on high conductors, mid freqs on mid conductors, and high freqs on low conductors. That would make logical sense. That way the operator could tailor the detector to the type of targets he was hunting, but still operate in multi and get the benefits of multi, like better ground cancelling.


Or how about this as an example of a low conductor:

 

[Jason in Enid]

LOL, that would be a short conductor!

Yeah, this kind of thing has always been a thorn in my side. I prefer to deal with raw settings. Let me set up the options how I need them best. Companies want "user friendly interfaces" so the generic user can talk about how easy it is to use.