Ebay and PayPal: Seller Beware!

[go-rebels]

YOU HAVE NO PROTECTION FOR FOLKS THAT HAVE A 100% PROFILE AND ARE UP-FRONT.YOU ARE AT THE MERCY OF THE SELLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BILL

This statement is correct if you purchase items NOT using PayPal, but is quite the opposite if you use PayPal. Remember, the Ebay/PayPal scales-of-justice are currrently tilted heavily in favor of the Buyer, and if you pay using PayPal, you have nothing to worry about. In your case, had you paid by PayPal, you could have filed a "Not as Described" claim and only been out your return shipping. That's a good deal for the Buyer in ALL cases, eh?

 

[thepest]

some sellers on ebay use the loophole.... i bought a 20.00 coil.... with priority plus insurance( 11.00 )... it came to 31.00..... the seller only took a pic of the top of the coil.... and said it was in decent used condoition...... with 100% feedback ... why wouldn't i beleive him.....the item was not as described.... even though i paid for the best shipping..... the item was delberately packed loose..... and the bottom was cracked..... sure i paid for the insurance..... try to collect.... you want to file a paypal complaint.... no problem.... but you're required to send the item back..... even if i don't put insurance on the return ship.... it's still 7.00 to send it back..... 11.00 and 7.00 is 18.00 the coil cost 20.00..... it aint worth the trouble.... yess i can leave bad feedback.... which the seller will defuse by not commenting.... or responding with somthing like .... " offered buyer refund no response " ..... i am a seller as well as a buyer..... and i've been took on both sides of the fence.... which is why i don't do international shipping.... or accept personal checks and money orders....
the lilttle things are where a seller with glowing feedback..... can stick it to you and get away with it....
there isin't anything any better to use.... as a seller... i can say.... this is the price of doing business.... if there was a better deal out there.... we'd be usin it...

 

[go-rebels]

.... but you're required to send the item back..... even if i don't put insurance on the return ship.... it's still 7.00 to send it back..... 11.00 and 7.00 is 18.00 ...

If you file a "not as described", PayPal will refund your entire initial payment, including shipping. so you would be paid $20 + $11 = $31. Your true cost would be $7, not too bad.

This is the only way to go if your Seller tries to apply a "re-stocking" fee, even if it appears in the auction description as a condition of sale.

 

[musky8it]

To add salt to the wound, I relisted the coin again and the same buyer won the auction Monday night using a different Ebay name (I blocked his original Ebay name from bidding). When I told him that this was the same coin he just returned, he requested that I cancel the auction.

f

When a seller blocks a buyer, and the buyer tries to bid. They get a message saying the seller has blocked them and if they use another account to bid with they can get suspended. So if I had been in your shoes I would have reported this buyer.

 

[plugger]

One little error in your statement that eBay "doesn't allow negative feedback on the seller"... you mean that you can no longer give negative feedback to the "BUYER", that's why and how they are able to get away with these scams. I actually had a bad experience with a buyer who threathened me with negative feedback if I didn't take an item back (which I would have done anyways as a matter of good business). I even paid the return shipping and gave him all of his money back. The item was not as he described, he just wanted to return it. And, he did leave me very positive feedback, but I am still a bit upset with ebay for not allowing us honest sellers to "flag" the dishonest buyers with negative feedback! It should work both ways and I tell them that every chance I get.

Plugger

 

[musky8it]

Yes, I recovered my $60 selling fees but I was still out $38 due to no fault of my own. It's aggrevating that the Seller ultimately has to pay the initial shipping charge to the Buyer when the Buyer reneges on the auction. And, again, the listing fee is unrecoverable. That in itself can be a good sum on a large sale with reserve.


I hate to say it, but $18 to ship a coin is way to much. At most shipping Priority would be $4.80 and 1st class would be less than $2. Ebay does not look kindly to sellers who overcharge on shipping, ebay only allows sellers to charge packaging material for handling cost. I been selling on ebay since 2002 and have sold approx 4,000 items, the most I have ever charged for handling is $2......... Listing fees(inserting fees) are recoverable if you relist the item and it sells. If your coin sold for $1,200 I was thinking your best bet would have been to send out a 2nd chance offer to the 2nd highest bidder.

I'm Still trying to figure out why your listing fees where $20, you must have added every extra selling feature ebay offers to be charged $20 listing fees.


It's interesting to see how few true auctions are held on Ebay these days. Most listings are of the "Buy it Now" type.....

I also buy on ebay and maybe there are allot of BIN listing in the coin category, but most other categories have at most 1/4 BIN auctions. One good thing about BIN auctions is the seller can set the BIN price high, then add "best offer", that is almost like a regular auction with a reserve.

I really can't wait for a real competitor to surface to give Ebay a "run for the money".

There are some good ones out there like iOffer, its in 2nd place but for some reason its not listed on the site that shows online auction sites and number of listing. Click here to see it. http://www.powersellersunite.com/auctionsitewatch.php

The loophole I describe can be closed if Ebay 1) Enforced their "no return" policy or, 2) Allowed sellers to give negative feedback to buyers or, 3) Put a little more effort into researching "not as described" claims.

That will never happen, ebay is out for one thing only. That's to make money, and to do that they cater only to buyers not sellers.

... but Ebay REQUIRES that you use PayPal or another Electronic pay method, like Visa/Mastercard. You cannot state that you accept Postal Money Orders only; Ebay will pull the ad and you'll lose your insertion fee.

Yep, that is correct and it stinks...Just another way for ebay to make money. I accepted M.O. for years with NO problems at all. The only way you can take a snail mail payments is if the buyer request it, you can't even send out an email telling your buyer you will take snail mail payments.

 

[go-rebels]

To add salt to the wound, I relisted the coin again and the same buyer won the auction Monday night using a different Ebay name (I blocked his original Ebay name from bidding). When I told him that this was the same coin he just returned, he requested that I cancel the auction.

f

When a seller blocks a buyer, and the buyer tries to bid. They get a message saying the seller has blocked them and if they use another account to bid with they can get suspended. So if I had been in your shoes I would have reported this buyer.

Yes, I did report the Buyer, both to Ebay and Paypal. They suggested that I record a "strike" against him, but, unfortunately, it is transparent to future Sellers.

 

[go-rebels]

One little error in your statement that eBay "doesn't allow negative feedback on the seller"... you mean that you can no longer give negative feedback to the "BUYER",
Plugger

Yes Plugger, you are correct, I transposed what I meant to say. But you followed along just fine and understood my point.

 

[go-rebels]

Yes, I recovered my $60 selling fees but I was still out $38 due to no fault of my own. It's aggrevating that the Seller ultimately has to pay the initial shipping charge to the Buyer when the Buyer reneges on the auction. And, again, the listing fee is unrecoverable. That in itself can be a good sum on a large sale with reserve.


I hate to say it, but $18 to ship a coin is way to much. At most shipping Priority would be $4.80 and 1st class would be less than $2. Ebay does not look kindly to sellers who overcharge on shipping, ebay only allows sellers to charge packaging material for handling cost. I been selling on ebay since 2002 and have sold approx 4,000 items, the most I have ever charged for handling is $2......... Listing fees(inserting fees) are recoverable if you relist the item and it sells. If your coin sold for $1,200 I was thinking your best bet would have been to send out a 2nd chance offer to the 2nd highest bidder.

I'm Still trying to figure out why your listing fees where $20, you must have added every extra selling feature ebay offers to be charged $20 listing fees.

Check what it costs to ship a AU 1955 Double Die penny worth $1500 across state lines. The most economical manner of shipment is Registered, Insured mail, and that costs $18 +/- $1 depending upon location. Shipping "insured" is cheaper for coins under $1000, but "registered" mail is cheaper over $1000. I charge nothing for handling.

I tried the 2nd bidder option but received no response. Experience has shown me that it is unlikely to sell a rare coin valued at over $1000 on a 2nd chance offer due to the proliferation of 2nd chance scams.

A $1200 reserve bid plus a highlighted auction costs ~$16. The other little stuff adds $3-$5.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1955-55-Double-Die-Lincoln-Cent-AU_W0QQitemZ120465621582QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_US_Individual?hash=item1c0c4f824e&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

It's interesting to see how few true auctions are held on Ebay these days. Most listings are of the "Buy it Now" type.....

I also buy on ebay and maybe there are allot of BIN listing in the coin category, but most other categories have at most 1/4 BIN auctions. One good thing about BIN auctions is the seller can set the BIN price high, then add "best offer", that is almost like a regular auction with a reserve.

I only buy and sell coins. The 1955 Double Die is one of my favorites. Count the number of true auctions:

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=1955+%28double%2Cdd%2Cddo%2C55/55%2Cdbl%29&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_sop=3

Not too many eh? I've tried "Best Offers" and get terribly low-balled. Within the rare coin category, very little sells that way.

The loophole I describe can be closed if Ebay 1) Enforced their "no return" policy or, 2) Allowed sellers to give negative feedback to buyers or, 3) Put a little more effort into researching "not as described" claims.

That will never happen, ebay is out for one thing only. That's to make money, and to do that they cater only to buyers not sellers.

... but Ebay REQUIRES that you use PayPal or another Electronic pay method, like Visa/Mastercard. You cannot state that you accept Postal Money Orders only; Ebay will pull the ad and you'll lose your insertion fee.

Yep, that is correct and it stinks...Just another way for ebay to make money. I accepted M.O. for years with NO problems at all. The only way you can take a snail mail payments is if the buyer request it, you can't even send out an email telling your buyer you will take snail mail payments.

Correct & correct

 

[Willee - Texas]

This is nothing new.
Wal-Mart and other stores like them have been dealing with buyers like that for years.
They buy something, use it, break it, switch out parts, then return it for a refund.
It aint nothing new and if you are a seller then you are gonna get a few of these people.

 

[musky8it]

This is nothing new.
Wal-Mart and other stores like them have been dealing with buyers like that for years.
They buy something, use it, break it, switch out parts, then return it for a refund.
It aint nothing new and if you are a seller then you are gonna get a few of these people.

Ya, ebay has turned sellers into mini walmart stores. All the buyer simply has to say, is they changed their mind, and ebay makes sellers let the buyers return it, just like walmart. Only good thing is the buyer has to pay shipping cost back. If it was not for that, then there would be allot more items returned. I believe ebays knows if they make the seller pay shipping back it will ruin them....


Tip for beating return scams:

When a buyer wants to return, make sure your email them. And in a nice way, let them know you have microdot marked the item, some internal parts if electronic, and if item is used taken closeup shots of surface scratches which is like fingerprints... This will scare off allot of scammers who only buy items to replace broken items they already own. I sure am glad I don't sell new items, I just sell antique/vintage collectible items. The scammers tend to stay away from that catagory.

 

[go-rebels]

Ya, ebay has turned sellers into mini walmart stores. All the buyer simply has to say, is they changed their mind, and ebay makes sellers let the buyers return it, just like walmart. Only good thing is the buyer has to pay shipping cost back. If it was not for that, then there would be allot more items returned. I believe ebays knows if they make the seller pay shipping back it will ruin them.....

Remember that the total shipping costs are split; PayPal makes the Seller pay the origianl shipping charges back to the Buyer but the Buyer has to pay for the return shipping.

Tip for beating return scams:

When a buyer wants to return, make sure your email them. And in a nice way, let them know you have microdot marked the item, some internal parts if electronic, and if item is used taken closeup shots of surface scratches which is like fingerprints... This will scare off allot of scammers who only buy items to replace broken items they already own. I sure am glad I don't sell new items, I just sell antique/vintage collectible items. The scammers tend to stay away from that catagory.

This is a very slippery area. More often than not if a Buyer insists that an item was used, for example, and the Seller insists that it was new, without overwelming evidence one way or the other, the Buyer will prevail. I had a slightly used electronic device sent to me last year that I returned as used because the plastic wrappers were all torn and taped indicating that the contents were previously opened. The Seller vehemently argued to Ebay that I was lying but Ebay quickly decided the case in my favor and refunded all my money, including initial shipping. Ebay never spoke to me or contacted me for further evidence.

 

[prospector 55]

I have done lots of transactions on EBAY with paypal and no problems not one!!!!!
Rick

 

[musky8it]

Remember that the total shipping costs are split; PayPal makes the Seller pay the origianl shipping charges back to the Buyer but the Buyer has to pay for the return shipping.

Yes, that is what I said. Buyer pays shipping cost back, everyone knows seller has to refund shipping to buyers so know need to mention that.