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The Finds Treasure Forum Classifieds is for individual use only with the exception of banner advertising buyers. Those buyers may advertise their traded in, discontinued models, etc.

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Ebay and PayPal: Seller Beware!

G

go-rebels

New member
Just another comment related to Ebay and PayPal.

There is absolutely no such thing as an absolute auction on Ebay.

Say you want to try out a White's V3, new or used. Find on one on Ebay, regardless of the return policy, and pay for it using Paypal. Save all the packing material. When you get the unit, try it out and see how you like it. Maybe you found another at a cheaper price, didn't like it, or only wanted to try it for a specific purpose. In any event, you plan to return it.

Pack the unit in it's original box and return the unit to the Ebay seller. Immediately file a claim with PayPal claiming that the unit was "not as described". I've never heard of a claim by someone that was overturned by PayPal, and the Buyer will be refunded their original price INCLUDING shipping. If the original Seller claimed that the unit was new, the Buyer can claim that it was not new and the Buyer's word will stand.

Should the original seller refuse to pick up the returned detector, it will eventually go back to the original buyer, so the buyer will have both the detector and his original money.

Ebay does not allow negative feedback to be applied to the seller so this behaviour is transparent to future sellers.

This technique can also be used to return items to avoid a restocking fee, again for a valid or invalid reason.

I've been on the wrong end of this exchange this past month sellinga $1200 coin. Fortunately I picked up the returned coin at the post office so I was only out my original shipping $18 and listing fee $20. That's still $38 out of my pocket because a buyer exploited a loophole in the Ebay/PayPal system.
 
On the other side of the coin (no pun intended) - I've done over 600 transactions on ebay - all but 4 using paypal. I have yet to have a bad experience that wasn't quickly resolved between me and the other party. It's good to know the risk your running though.
 
From what I understand, Ebay owns Paypal. What a scam.
 
Yes, they are the same company.

It's interesting to see how few true auctions are held on Ebay these days. Most listings are of the "Buy it Now" type. It would seem to me that Ebay sales would significantly drop due to this trend. I really can't wait for a real competitor to surface to give Ebay a "run for the money".
 
Shambler said:
On the other side of the coin (no pun intended) - I've done over 600 transactions on ebay - all but 4 using paypal. I have yet to have a bad experience that wasn't quickly resolved between me and the other party. It's good to know the risk your running though.
Click to expand...

Yes, my same experience too, except for last month when I learned first-hand the 'loophole'.

To add salt to the wound, I relisted the coin again and the same buyer won the auction Monday night using a different Ebay name (I blocked his original Ebay name from bidding). When I told him that this was the same coin he just returned, he requested that I cancel the auction.

So now I'm out another $20 listing fee...
 
go-rebels said:
Ebay does not allow negative feedback to be applied to the seller so this behavior is transparent to future sellers.
Click to expand...

This is my biggest disappointment with Ebay's recent rule changes.



go-rebels said:
Fortunately I picked up the returned coin at the post office so I was only out my original shipping $18 and listing fee $20. That's still $38 out of my pocket because a buyer exploited a loophole in the Ebay/PayPal system.
Click to expand...

Unless Ebay has changed something you should still be able to recover your selling fees.
 
ZOFCHAK said:
go-rebels said:
Fortunately I picked up the returned coin at the post office so I was only out my original shipping $18 and listing fee $20. That's still $38 out of my pocket because a buyer exploited a loophole in the Ebay/PayPal system.
Click to expand...

Unless Ebay has changed something you should still be able to recover your selling fees.
Click to expand...

Yes, I recovered my $60 selling fees but I was still out $38 due to no fault of my own. It's aggrevating that the Seller ultimately has to pay the initial shipping charge to the Buyer when the Buyer reneges on the auction. And, again, the listing fee is unrecoverable. That in itself can be a good sum on a large sale with reserve.
 
Is the grey hair or loss of hair worth all this?? (and I can't afford much more of either)-----I guess I'm old fashioned but I know hardly anything about ebay & don't want to.------Del
 
Ebay is often the best way to sell a valuable used item as the potential audience is huge. It's just a shame that they continue to allow loopholes in their system that enable one group to take advantage of another group.
 
I stopped selling on ebay because i also have been subject to that loophole quite a bit.. on items now if its nothing big i will accept paypal.. if its something i think someone will try to scam. Like coins or gold. I put postal money order only.. Usually stops the scammers right in their tracks.
 
Corpsegrinder said:
.. if its something i think someone will try to scam. Like coins or gold. I put postal money order only.. Usually stops the scammers right in their tracks.
Click to expand...

... but Ebay REQUIRES that you use PayPal or another Electronic pay method, like Visa/Mastercard. You cannot state that you accept Postal Money Orders only; Ebay will pull the ad and you'll lose your insertion fee.
 
Ah yes. now that i think about it i do remember seeing that.. but i havent sold anything on ebay in quite awhile.. with all those problems. fee's are plain robbery..
 
conspiracytheorist said:
From what I understand, Ebay owns Paypal. What a scam.
Click to expand...

:shrug:

Del said:
Is the grey hair or loss of hair worth all this?? (and I can't afford much more of either)-----I guess I'm old fashioned but I know hardly anything about ebay & don't want to.------Del
Click to expand...

I've made a good deal of money on eBay and gotten some great deals as well. It's not voodoo. People get hurt because they have literal rock bottom prices - they don't work in coverage for a potential return shipping cost. How would using a money order stop fraud? You just shift the fraudulent behavior to the other party.
 
If your haven't had a negative experience with Paypal you will sooner or later. I have been selling on eBay for 11 years a over 700 + feedbacks.
 
Yes Shambler, I've done well on Ebay too. The loophole I describe can be closed if Ebay 1) Enforced their "no return" policy or, 2) Allowed sellers to give negative feedback to buyers or, 3) Put a little more effort into researching "not as described" claims.

My coins I auction on Ebay have sharp, well lit, high-res pictures uploaded for the auction. There is never a valid claim to say "not as described" or "damaged" that is not visible in the big pics.

Just think: Ebay and Paypal will support you if you buy $25,000 worth of coins one week, try to sell all you can at a weekend coin show, then return the rest the following week claiming "not as described". One could make an entire business out of this!
 
E-bay used to be fun and profitable. Now, it sucks and it has gotten too greedy. I just wish they had some competition. Why hasn't somebody come up against them? I hate paypal, too.
 
It is not a loophole.
It is called "Buyer Protection".
True ... it can be misused.
However, if you list your item with no return policy then the item can not be returned for any reason.
I suppose even that can be misused also.
Where there is money ... there will be scammers trying to get it.

If the money is not in your paypal account how can they refund it?
I don't think they can go to your bank account and draw it out.

Craig's list is the only other place to sell things that I know of.
Yahoo used to have an auction site but I think it is closed now.

Willee
 
WELL,I GOT BURNED BY A SELLER OVER A JUNKER DETECTOR THAT LOOKED LIKE A BRAND-NEW ONE,WHEN I GOT IT ,IT WAS DIRTY,MUD INSIDE LOOSE LEAKING BATTERIES,PILE OF JUNK! I SENT HIM A POSTAL MONEY ORDER-----------E-BAY WOULDN'T NOT HELP AT ALL.ITS ALL BARK AND NO BITE AND THE SELLER GOT AWAY FREE!!!!!!:ranting:WENT TO EVERY AGENCIES I COULD THINK OF FOR HELP------------NO ONE CARED:thumbdown::veryangry:pAY-PAL WILL NICKLE AND DIME YOU TO DEATH--ITS A RIP-OFF.YOU HAVE NO PROTECTION FOR FOLKS THAT HAVE A 100% PROFILE AND ARE UP-FRONT.YOU ARE AT THE MERCY OF THE SELLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:pulltab:BILL
 
Willee said:
It is not a loophole.
It is called "Buyer Protection".
True ... it can be misused.
However, if you list your item with no return policy then the item can not be returned for any reason.
Click to expand...

WRONG! Any item payed with PayPal can be returned for a full refund, including shipping, regardless if the auction is of a "No Return" type, if a claim is made that the product is "damaged" or "not as described". My "no return" auction was overridden by this PayPal policy. It is buried within the legal fine print when you accept PayPal payments. Call it what you want, but I call it a "loophole". If that's "Buyer Protection", then we need a similar "Seller Protection."

Willee said:
If the money is not in your paypal account how can they refund it?
I don't think they can go to your bank account and draw it out.
Willee
Click to expand...

You are correct, they cannot go into your checking account to pull money. However, should you sell anything else on Ebay, that money will be confiscated through PayPal. If you cancel your Ebay account, you will never be able to sell on Ebay again using your legal name. This extreme course of action would be necessary if you had your money pulled and, for whatever reason, never received your product back after shipment, or received a significantly different product in return.

Imagine shipping out a slightly new Whites V3 under a "no return" auction, then the Buyer files a "not as described" claim and ships you back an old White's 5900. Now that's a mess and the Seller will probably lose due to Ebay/PayPal's "Buyer Protection" policy.
 
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