discriminat iron

[kevinslack]

whats the best metal detector for coin shooting that will discriminat on old rusty nails. i just bought the e-trac with the sunray prob and three extra coils. but it will still pick up those old rusty nails. even if i try to discriminat them out they will still come in on a high pitch which fools me into digging. dont get me wrong i have found some wheat pennys at 10 inches deep. but im looking for a metal detector that will discriminat those rusty old nails or iron out very good.

 

[JohnTN]

The Etrac is very effective at discriminating iron nails. Yes some will come in at a high pitch but this takes practice to learn the difference. My suggestion is get with a local productive Etrac user and let him/her show you the difference. Sure your still gonna dig a few nails but it will only be the deep iffy signals. I have only had a few nails that were not suspect of being a nail with the Etrac. You have the best coinshooting machine on the planet all you gotta do is harness that power and learn it's language.

Good Luck
John

 

[Razorback]

Well its not so much about the Iron as it is the combinaiton of the Iron, Rust, Soil Conditions/mineralisation, effect of the rusty iron reacting with the soil, depth, other nearby targets, atmospherics.... etc etc

I have done about 5 years of gold prospecting before this, first with an SD2000 then a SD2100 then a GPX4000.

I think it was an excellent primer for treasure because the degree of attention you have to pay to pick the minute changes in the threshold hum of a deep nugget gives you a mindset that makes you a lot more careful than many treasure hunters I have seen who havnt detected for gold with a PI machine.

The point of that ramble is this. No matter how good your detector, now matter how advanced, no matter how much discrimination you employ, your going to detect targets that are not what your looking for and the type of metal involved is only one factor in the mix. If you start convincing yourself you can identify every target without actually digging it, your in danger of walking away from potentially great finds, that at first sound like junk. Equally your always going to dig utter garbage that sounds like treasure. With experience, your going to be able to start making a call about whats below your coil, as your confidence increases you will only dig the bad sounds every now and then to just confirm you still have your "mojo". So eventually you will be walking away from bad signals with a high degree of certainty that they are in fact ok to walk away from.

One of the most important things you can do though to reach this level is STICK WITH IT! Pick a machine and learn it inside and out.

One of the best gold prospectors I know, who I have personally seen his collection of over $100,000 AUD in nuggets and speccys, still uses a GP Extreme..... why ? Because he KNOWS IT. I let him use my GPX4000 for almost a whole day, he liked it, and could see the benefits, but he didnt like the idea of totally re-learning a new machine and maintained that until he "has to" he wont swap. Being familiar with your machine and what its trying to tell you is in my opinion far more important that what machine your using.

Almost every good day I had with the GPX4000 could have been done with the SD2100 and many many gold detectorists will tell you the same thing about their current and former machines.

Having said all that.... if your looking to sell your Etrac... gimme a PM

 

[kevinslack]

ok thanks, i dont see anybody metal detecting in the parks here in pueblo co. i wish there was because im monkey see monkey do kind of guy. if i see how something is done i can do it.

 

[NebTrac]

Kevin,

Please don't give up. I have no right in telling you this. I got my E-Trac in December and have not had a chance of using this. Since then I've devoted almost everyday learning from this forum and youtube videos. You see the guys on youtube still picking up nails once in a while. Take a look back a number of pages at Ray-Mo's trash he digs up. He posted a picture not too long ago. Read Andy's book, especially page 76 I believe on the tip about rusted iron. From my reading it happens and it takes time. I'm willing to devote the time because quite frankly the "finds" from the E-Trac are astounding. There's too much evidence. Read rbholt's posts, he didn't like it either for 2 months.

Again, I really have nothing to offer from experience, just encouragement. Who knows in another month or two it might be you offering me encouragement. At least you can dig the signals. I refuse to spend 30 minutes chopping through 16 inches of frozen ground only to find I too have been fooled by a rusty nail. One thing I might add is that in Andy's book when you encounter that high sound go ahead and look at your screen and see where the target lies. Is it in the ferrous zone 27 and below or maybe 1 or 2, if I remember right those numbers seemed a high probability of that nail you posted a picture of.

Regards,

NebTrac

 

[bcoop]

I don't mind getting fooled with a few nails here and there especially when I know I'm in an area that has potential for silver or other good coins. Sometimes I guess we have to take the good with the bad, and hope for more good.
As you get accustomed to the sounds and compare them with you finds you will start to recognize the potential nail and may decide not to dig. I have found coins right in the same hole with a crusty nail though.

Good luck and keep digging
BCOOP

 

[Ray-Mo.]

Should be other E-Trac users near by that would be willing to help you out,Ray.

 

[David]

whats the best metal detector for coin shooting that will discriminat on old rusty nails. i just bought the e-trac with the sunray prob and three extra coils. but it will still pick up those old rusty nails. even if i try to discriminat them out they will still come in on a high pitch which fools me into digging. dont get me wrong i have found some wheat pennys at 10 inches deep. but im looking for a metal detector that will discriminat those rusty old nails or iron out very good.

The lower frequency VLF's(3 to 5 kHz) will go better in Iron. X-Terra 705 with 3 kHz coil and listen to the harmonic audio tone. Whites Spectra V3 with the lowest of the 3 frequencies. I have heard the older uMax and Lobo & Compadre detectors from Tesoro. Older Fisher 12** series. The Technetics T2 LTD and Omega. Maybe some older Whites and the Musketeer Advantage(5 kHz).

Digger or Monty on Findmall are a very good ones to ask on the very best MD's in Iron.

http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=15664&highlight=pesky+bottle+caps
"The MXT discrimination and sensitivity is such that many bottle caps (the crimped steel ones) will ID as a good quarter or dime signal, depending on how rusty they are, when your coil sweeps are centered over them.

The XLT and DFX, with their Signagraph capability, have an easier time of it. The Signagraph will show the target with multiple separated bars and give the bottle cap away.

When I am hunting with my MXT in an area where these bottle caps are plentiful, the easiest way to identify them, rather than digging them, is to take another pass over them in discriminate mode, but this time do it with the edge of the coil, instead of the coil centered on the target. "Rimming" the target this way will let the detector show them up as ferrous targets. This technique will work with just about any VLF detector.

Try it!"

Hope this helps!

 

[UtahRich]

Kevinslack,

Check your settings compared to other E-trac users. I found that the Explorers series are excellent at discriminating out rusty iron nails even when set for low discrimiation levels. But it is excellent at finding coins that are hiding in with rusty nails. Make sure you are rechecking your holes after removing the rusty nail.

Good luck,

 

[kevinslack]

i had a guy tell me that he was digging alot of nails with his, he sold it and got a sepro and said he dont dig the nails any more. it also has a iron mask on it. any one here use a se pro

 

[Ray-Mo.]

I used a SE Pro for quite a while and found a lot of good old coins with it.However after using the E-Trac for a few weeks I left the SE as a backup and then sold it.I dug just as many old rusty cut nails with it as I have with the E-Trac if not more and for sure more than I did with the Explorer II.If I run the E-Trac in the preset coins I rarely dig a nail and when I do it is almost always an iffy one way signal.I have never dug a silver coin thinking it might be a nail unless it was very close to iron.On the other hand I have dug a number of nails and almost always thought they would be a nail before digging.Once in a while I will dig a nail bent almost in a U shape that will sound almost as good as a silver coin but the numbers will still be off as a general rule.
I think a lot of the time with any new top end machine a person tries to hard the first 40 or 50 hours to make it perform like the guys who have been posting about theirs after a few hundred hours of use.
It does take a while to learn all any top end ultra powerfull and sensitive machine is telling you about any given target at depth.Another thing to remember is that the wetter the soil the better rusty iron sounds on most if not all high end machines.
It might help if you will share the settings you are running your E-Trac at,Ray.

 

[gregliss]

I've dug bugger all nails with the etrac, the ones I have dug are bent into a horse shoe shape and sound quite good. Tell tail sign is blanking either side of the high tone, turn 90 deg and it should sound different again if not completley blanked. Coins are usually nice and consist from both angles if not co-located with other targets.

If you run the iron mask of the pattern to low you will dig more nails.

When I'm on a site with lots of iron I switch to 2-tone ferrous with a mostly open pattern. Ferrous objects (iron) will be a low grunt and Non-ferrous a nice high tone, nails will grunt at you, or you get "grunt-short high tone-grunt".

Just remember on those iffy targets, if there is blanking on either or both sides of the good tone solid chance it's junk.

Cheers,
Greg

 

[NebTrac]

Thank you Greg,

That was very well explained. I really appreciate your information.

NebTrac

 

[kevinslack]

i run it maxed out because if i put it on audio sensitivity it will only run at about 14. so i put it in manual sensitivity 25 to 30 and run threshold level at 20 volume limit 30 volume gain 30 response normal tone ID multi variability 30 limits 30 threshold pitch 30 recovery deep on trash density high ground difficult and manual noise cancel every 30 min.

 

[Ray-Mo.]

What are running for discrimination?

 

[kevinslack]

heres the two i use.

 

[kevinslack]

i will have to try the Ferrous two tone around these sites to see if the nails sound drifferent from the coins. thanks for the tip.

 

[Ray-Mo.]

I see you are using a lot of disc. I think if you will try the 2 tone ferrous and just black out on bottom of your screen to around 30-31 you will see a big improvement .You might try a bit with a wide open screen and just dig the high tones and leave the iron grunts in the ground.I think if you will experiment some and test a few settings you will be able to make it work well for you as no two sites are the same.Good luck and keep us posted,Ray.

 

[gregliss]

I see you are using a lot of disc. I think if you will try the 2 tone ferrous and just black out on bottom of your screen to around 30-31 you will see a big improvement .You might try a bit with a wide open screen and just dig the high tones and leave the iron grunts in the ground.I think if you will experiment some and test a few settings you will be able to make it work well for you as no two sites are the same.Good luck and keep us posted,Ray.

I agree Ray!

Just on that, I find that large iron can faulse across the top of the screen giving high tones/squeeks you need to re-check, so I have a band across the top stopping short to allow large silver in, the rest of the pattern is open. I've found this to be a solid performer keeping iron in the low grunt realm with very little to no iron high tones. (I use the top half of Andy S's coin pattern)

Give it a go Ray I think you might like it.

Cheers
Greg

 

[Ray-Mo.]

I plan to try it tomorrow and I noticed that crown caps hit at top at 1- 20s if I remeber right and are a high tone,Ray.