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Disc or pinpoint?
- Thread starter braich77
- Start date
Neil
Well-known member
hershey1 said:Erikk I really don't think PP shrinks the footprint on a DD coil because I wiggle my coil backwards until the target sound leaves put my foot beside the coil move the coil and dig the target. So I'm getting full length of the coil. I know this is not a Y or N answer.
I agree with you and kered. one, try your site with both modes for a while, give each mode some hunt time, not just a few minutes and then see which is best for you.
and the pinpoint mode narrows down the signal but the length remains the same as does the coverage, your right hershey.
I'm with ya there.....
But,
Most of all..
I don't know where everyone is hunting.. where they have the Time to switch Back and fourth between the 2 .. while Dodging waves and Currents...
Maybe everyones hunting inland lakes or Lagoons... Don't know..
But.
I really don't have the time to Play around between the 2...
that's why I set it and forget it...
I know exactly where my target is, and I dig....
Maybe it's different for others... If your at 1 with your machine.. You know it hands down.. and don't need to be switching around.. messing and playing around...
just get serious and DIG. move onto the next target. haha
DON"T OVER THINK IT !!!!! JUST DIG IT !!!
the song that stays in my head as im hunting..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFxFibVHy-w
goodmore said:
But,
Most of all..
I don't know where everyone is hunting.. where they have the Time to switch Back and fourth between the 2 .. while Dodging waves and Currents...
Maybe everyones hunting inland lakes or Lagoons... Don't know..
But.
I really don't have the time to Play around between the 2...
that's why I set it and forget it...
I know exactly where my target is, and I dig....
Maybe it's different for others... If your at 1 with your machine.. You know it hands down.. and don't need to be switching around.. messing and playing around...
just get serious and DIG. move onto the next target. haha
DON"T OVER THINK IT !!!!! JUST DIG IT !!!
the song that stays in my head as im hunting..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFxFibVHy-w
Critterhunter
New member
I've just did some more testing at the beach I previously described that is giving the stock 10" Tornado a hard time. I tested Auto, manual, PP, All Metal, and discrimination against each other and got some interesting results...
As I previously said the 15x12 runs smooth in manual at this beach and gets good depth, while on my prior two hunts with the 10" Tornado I had to run it in Auto to keep the threshold from nulling out. When I tried manual on those two hunts anything but almost total lowest setting (like 5PM) would give me an nulling out threshold due to the minerals at this fresh water beach. As I've also said, I've never seen the GT get such poor performance. In Auto I was lucky to get 5 or 6", perhaps 7" would be a stretch on a coin. And even then half the time the ID was all over the place or would go to a total null from certain directions.
Anyway, today when I went back to grid some more of this beach I decided to test manual again to see if anything has changed. I believe you should never assume that one setting in sensitivity always works for a spot. Anything from changing stray RF noise, to soil or sand moisture content, to even the humidity in the air can alter things from one day to the next IMO. So today I flipped over to manual and found that the threshold was mostly stable (with the occasional slight null every 6 or 7 sweeps) at around the 4PM position. That's better because the other days something even this high would cause severe nulling. The random null every 6 to 10 sweeps today told me that it was possible to hunt in manual without losing the threshold a lot, but I needed to see if Auto was just as deep as 4PM on the dial. If it was then might as well throw it in Auto because it would clean up that last little bit of nulling here and there and run smoother.
Well, once I confirmed that manual was possible today I stuck a silver dime in the ground at about 5 to 7" deep and then tried Auto. Nothing doing, not even a null! Then I threw it over to 4PM in manual to see how that it and it was perfect in audio and ID. Hmmmm....I've always found Auto to give me somewhere between 2 to 4PM manual's depth depending on the site. It's not static for every time you use it. Minerals, stray RF noise, and so on I believe can cause Auto to run higher or lower on any given day. Adjusted manual down to the lowest setting (like 5:30 PM it looks like when all the way to lowest) and it was STILL hitting the coin fine! Throw it back over to Auto and once again the coin is gone! Wow, I've never seen Auto go so low to where it appears it's getting even less depth than the very lowest manual setting. As said, typical Auto depth for me is anywhere between 3 and 4PM, perhaps as high as 2PM at some locations.
My heart sunk because I've been gridding a fair portion of this beach in Auto only to find out at least today manual 4PM which is usable today or even the lowest manual is giving me more depth. Oh well, I guess I got all winter and my coming 12x10 to re-grid this beach with a tweaked manual setting to get a little deeper. I feel manual 4PM was giving me about 2" more depth than Auto today while testing. Just the same, next time I'm there with the stock coil Auto might be the only usable setting once again like it was the prior days. Besides, when I take the 12x10 there if it follows suit with the 15x12's performance there I'm expecting a much higher manual setting to be stable, like perhaps 2PM or higher. Either way, if manual provides me with higher stability with the 12x10 I might not even go that high, as my buried dime calibration method normally has sensitivity a bit lower than max stable and provides me with more depth.
With the 10" coil it wasn't a question of seeing how sensitivity should be set via the dime test. It needed to be the highest I could get it while still having a decently stable threshold. That's very different than the norm for me, as my buried dime test puts it much lower than the edge of stability. Today it was the reverse- I had to see just how high I could get sensitivity without the threshold nulling out on me most of the time. Where ever that ended up being (4PM) was where it would be.
Just the same, for kicks I decided to play with the sensitivity and go too high for stability and all the way down on the buried dime and see what gives. At around 2PM I still was able to ID the coin fine, but the nulling while sweeping around was too much to put up with. At around noon or higher the ID was going nuts on me so I knew even if I could put up with the blanking threshold it would be pointless to go that high because the ID was being destroyed. Lowest manual ID'd it fine, though with a little more wiggle work than 4PM needed. Swept around again to see where sensitivity was too high for the threshold to stay stable and once again confirmed that 4PM was about as far high as I could push it without the threshold going out to lunch on me all the time. Again, just shocked that Auto didn't see the coin and yet the lowest manual did. First time I've ever seen Auto go that low.
The other curious thing is I can think of only one other time where the buried dime test put sensitivity high enough to even mess with the threshold, but again I was more going with just what sensitivity would allow today. Since it was already super low to get it stable there wasn't much point to calibrating it with the dime to judge where it should be. I mainly did the dime test to confirm that it would pick it up fine at 4PM and just where Auto was dropping out. Glad I tested all that because it was a real shocker to see Auto that low. Just goes to show that you should never assume the same settings at the same spot on two different days. If anything it's important to not assume Auto it getting about 3PM in depth all the time. You might very well find out that on a particular day even the lowest manual is deeper than Auto, so don't assume that if manual is unstable until it's almost dead lowest that you should just use Auto. No matter how low you have to go in manual to get the machine stable always test Auto against it and see which is giving more depth. On some days Auto will be very stable yet give more depth than where ever manual needs to be to get the machine running smooth. Test, compare, and set your machine up properly before each hunt to insure you are getting max depth via either Auto or a properly set manual setting.
So on to the PP, All Metal, Discriminate comparisons. After I finished gridding the section I wanted to get done today I decided to play with these functions a bit. Cranked up the volume all the way so as to leave no doubt as to being able to hear PP. Threw the machine into All Metal Track and swept around in a clean area of beach for about five minutes to let it adjust properly, then threw it over to All Metal fixed and started looking for targets. Found something deep and threw it from All Metal Fixed over to PP and for sure PP is more pronounced (louder). It also makes you notice the target more due to the nature of PP in it's oscillating pitch based on coil proximity to the target. All Metal is more flat and uniform in it's response and, while I had no trouble seeing the Target in All Metal, it was for sure less of a "HERE I AM" type of statement compared to how PP reacts to try to get you to take notice. Threw it over to discriminate and could not hear the target. Dug it up and from the depths of about 6 or 7" came a piece of rusted steel roughly the size of a dime.
Off I go searching for more targets. Half the time I was seeking them out in PP and the other half I was seeking them out in All Metal fixed. That way I could judge if either was deeper than the other. I should have buried a target at fringe for one of them and seen if the other would still hear it. Next time I'll do that as I'm anxious to see if PP or All Metal is deeper. My money is on All Metal so long as the ground balance is set properly and not running in tracking (which can track out a deep target after you've swept over it a few times). Also played with the pump method of setting the ground balance in fixed to see if I could notice any difference between doing it that way and using the sweeping method. Saw no difference but Minelab states that setting ground balance by using the tracking method will adjust it a little hot for best depth anyway, so I don't see much point using the pump method unless you can't find a clean spot to sweep over for a few minutes. That's important because any targets or iron in the soil might throw off ground balance while setting it via tracking before throwing it over to fixed. Always make sure you are in a clean spot and sweep over that same area for several minutes before going to fixed. Otherwise use the pump method in whatever small clean spot you can find. So I didn't find any targets that All Metal could get and PP couldn't and vise versa, but as said I need to go to fringe depth on a target and then see which one finally can't keep up with the other.
For the next half hour I kept hunting in All Metal or PP and then compared the two to each other, then would go to discriminate to see if it would hear it. I dug about 5 or 6 bobby pins, 4 or 5 pieces of rusted steel roughly dime to nickle in size, a steel washer, an eye bolt, and about 4 or 5 nails or so. Discriminate could not hear any of these targets, which it shouldn't because that's Iron Mask doing it's magic to ignore ferrous junk like that. Some of the targets Discriminate would null over. At least 75% of them if not all of them but I can't remember for sure. I'll once again say that PP was more dramatic in the way it reacts to make you notice a target where as All Metal is more "flat" and uniform in it's response. Not hard to notice, just not as dramatic of a response as PP.
After a good half hour of removing my share of steel and iron from the beach I'll say that I for sure felt like I was using a PI unit. I feel real sorry for those guys in how many bobby pins and other junk they have to dig. This was an area I had already gridded prior to this experiment so I was real happy to see all the junk iron and steel that discriminate kept out of my life with my prior grid. I kept thinking that even if PP or All Metal was deeper in certain locations for people you have to think about all the time you are waisting digging junk that Discriminate otherwise would never bother you with. I for sure wouldn't use PP or All Metal when targets are plentiful, because while you are digging all the lost bits of humanity out of the sand your competition is allowing discriminate work it's magic and get them to the "good" finds before you. I hardly even moved out of about a 10x15 foot area in that length of time, where as in discriminate I would have probably covered 10 times that amount of ground not being slowed down by nails and other junk that PP is telling me to dig.
More importantly in distinction, though, I for sure could see the merits of running in PP or All Metal when targets are few and far between. In that case it's not a matter of who gets what first, but who takes the time to listen and work any deep whispers in the hopes of getting the goods that way. That's also an important thing to remember when you envy guys running around with other machines like a chicken with it's head cut off. They may be covering more ground faster than you in the horizontal axis, but you've got to remember that your Excal or Sovereign is covering more ground in the vertical respect (meaning depth). If he's getting 6 to 8" of depth (typical for most other machines on the beach) then there's a good chance your Sovereign or Excal is getting perhaps double that or more. In effect you are covering twice as much ground with each pass in the vertical respect, so you can think to yourself that your sweep speed is in effect double the slower pace you are swinging at if you know what I mean. Of course going to a larger coil will also in effect increase your "sweep speed" in a sense in that you are covering more ground per sweep than somebody swinging faster with a smaller coil.
While on the subject, I realized something today about the sweep speed of the Sovereign. I was swinging at my normal pace which to me leans towards a more medium speed. I seem to get the best hit on a target at depth at that speed, though I still do the short/fast wiggle once the threshold reacts in anyway (even a null) to derive the best ID from the target. Still, I wouldn't call this speed slow. Most sweep the Sovereign much slower. Oh sure, it's not as fast as my Whites could go, but it's about the same pace I would swing my Whites at which is comfortable for me- around a medium speed (at least to me I'd call it that). Anyway, my point is I was thinking that the "best" swing rate I've found for best depth/hit when searching out the next target is about the perfect speed for me that I normally hunt at regardless of machine. I'm not one to whip a machine around like somebody on speed. I try to swing at a speed that matches my slow walking pace. I try to time the two so that for roughly every step I take (slowly) I get about two to three sweeps in a 3 to 4 foot sweep with my detector.
I've said this already but I find the stock 10" coil to be an odd match for my rate of swing/walking speed. I find myself having to hold a step back in mid air until I finish covering the ground directly ahead of me with the coil. Maybe I'm just used to the 15x12 where in two or three sweeps it's already "cleared the ground" for me to keep what feels like a comfortable "in sync" walking pace for me. I was watching the 10" coil today and noting how much ground was "left" that I needed to cover before I could finish taking the next step. Roughly it seems like I need another 2" per sweep to get things back in sync again, so I'm hoping the 12x10 will fit the bill in that respect so that I don't have to "think" about my next step. I never realized it before but when things throw you off your normal routine what is automatic becomes a game of mental concentration when hunting. I found myself having to watch my sweep, think about my next step, and make sure I was not missing any ground with the two or three sweeps I was making before my next step. Very odd to have to think of those things when normally I could be eyeing the girls on the beach or off somewhere day dreaming in my head while I wait to hear any change in threshold.
Just thought I'd throw this out there for people. If you never feel quite comfortable with your coverage or walking/sweeping motion then perhaps a bigger coil is in order to smooth out the routine for you. I almost felt like I was going to trip over my own two feet or the coil with the constant mental effort I had to put into something that would otherwise come natural. The 15x12 spoiled me in that respect and I hope the 12x10 will have me back on track with my motion again. I've also noticed that it's a lot less swinging effort to cover the ground with a bigger coil. You can in effect not have to be horsing the coil around to make sure you cover everything in time before your next automatic step. In that way the 15x12 I feel was easier on my shoulder because with the 10" coil I feel like I'm trying to force things to get done before I take the next step.
That's about all I've got on today's testing. Next time it's fringe depth and see if PP, All Metal Fixed, or Discriminate wins out on this beach. Regardless, I don't think I'll take a fancy to using PP or All Metal on any of my beaches until targets widdle down in numbers by mid winter or so. Heck, I'm digging tons of round tabs way up on the dry sand where no wave action could have placed them. That blows my mind that the so called beach hunters around here haven't dug these things up in the last 30 years. Either they are lazy and don't pick up their trash (seen a few leaving stuff behind at a few beaches this summer), or maybe it's just that they aren't getting the depth that the Sovereign is getting at these beaches. What am I thinking...Of course they aren't!
Yesterday I got a gold filled woman's ring with a large fake diamond. Had my heart going until I saw it was obviously gold plated by it being worn off on the bottom in a little spot. Too bad, it would have been a good hunk of scrap gold to cash in. I'll be getting the 12x10 by Wednesday or Thursday and I'm anxious to re-grid one of the sections I've already done with the 10" coil to see if the 12x10 starts popping stuff the 10" Tornado missed. Also, it'll be real interesting to see if this coil allows higher sensitivity settings on this beach like the 15x12, and also where it wants sensitivity via my buried dime test. Along with all that I'm anxious to see if it's popping coins deeper than the lousy performance the 10" coil has been getting there. On the prior few days in Auto 5, 6, and *maybe* 7" deep was max and mostly not very good signals on coins at those depths. Today in manual 4PM I was getting 8 or 9" maybe. Still not stellar performance for the GT, but imagine how bad other non-Minelabs are doing there! If the 12x10 gets me past 8 or 9" deep then I'll know it's beating the stock coil on this beach like the 15x12 did in the sand.
Long mostly pointless ramble but hope you were able to make it through this message...
As I previously said the 15x12 runs smooth in manual at this beach and gets good depth, while on my prior two hunts with the 10" Tornado I had to run it in Auto to keep the threshold from nulling out. When I tried manual on those two hunts anything but almost total lowest setting (like 5PM) would give me an nulling out threshold due to the minerals at this fresh water beach. As I've also said, I've never seen the GT get such poor performance. In Auto I was lucky to get 5 or 6", perhaps 7" would be a stretch on a coin. And even then half the time the ID was all over the place or would go to a total null from certain directions.
Anyway, today when I went back to grid some more of this beach I decided to test manual again to see if anything has changed. I believe you should never assume that one setting in sensitivity always works for a spot. Anything from changing stray RF noise, to soil or sand moisture content, to even the humidity in the air can alter things from one day to the next IMO. So today I flipped over to manual and found that the threshold was mostly stable (with the occasional slight null every 6 or 7 sweeps) at around the 4PM position. That's better because the other days something even this high would cause severe nulling. The random null every 6 to 10 sweeps today told me that it was possible to hunt in manual without losing the threshold a lot, but I needed to see if Auto was just as deep as 4PM on the dial. If it was then might as well throw it in Auto because it would clean up that last little bit of nulling here and there and run smoother.
Well, once I confirmed that manual was possible today I stuck a silver dime in the ground at about 5 to 7" deep and then tried Auto. Nothing doing, not even a null! Then I threw it over to 4PM in manual to see how that it and it was perfect in audio and ID. Hmmmm....I've always found Auto to give me somewhere between 2 to 4PM manual's depth depending on the site. It's not static for every time you use it. Minerals, stray RF noise, and so on I believe can cause Auto to run higher or lower on any given day. Adjusted manual down to the lowest setting (like 5:30 PM it looks like when all the way to lowest) and it was STILL hitting the coin fine! Throw it back over to Auto and once again the coin is gone! Wow, I've never seen Auto go so low to where it appears it's getting even less depth than the very lowest manual setting. As said, typical Auto depth for me is anywhere between 3 and 4PM, perhaps as high as 2PM at some locations.
My heart sunk because I've been gridding a fair portion of this beach in Auto only to find out at least today manual 4PM which is usable today or even the lowest manual is giving me more depth. Oh well, I guess I got all winter and my coming 12x10 to re-grid this beach with a tweaked manual setting to get a little deeper. I feel manual 4PM was giving me about 2" more depth than Auto today while testing. Just the same, next time I'm there with the stock coil Auto might be the only usable setting once again like it was the prior days. Besides, when I take the 12x10 there if it follows suit with the 15x12's performance there I'm expecting a much higher manual setting to be stable, like perhaps 2PM or higher. Either way, if manual provides me with higher stability with the 12x10 I might not even go that high, as my buried dime calibration method normally has sensitivity a bit lower than max stable and provides me with more depth.
With the 10" coil it wasn't a question of seeing how sensitivity should be set via the dime test. It needed to be the highest I could get it while still having a decently stable threshold. That's very different than the norm for me, as my buried dime test puts it much lower than the edge of stability. Today it was the reverse- I had to see just how high I could get sensitivity without the threshold nulling out on me most of the time. Where ever that ended up being (4PM) was where it would be.
Just the same, for kicks I decided to play with the sensitivity and go too high for stability and all the way down on the buried dime and see what gives. At around 2PM I still was able to ID the coin fine, but the nulling while sweeping around was too much to put up with. At around noon or higher the ID was going nuts on me so I knew even if I could put up with the blanking threshold it would be pointless to go that high because the ID was being destroyed. Lowest manual ID'd it fine, though with a little more wiggle work than 4PM needed. Swept around again to see where sensitivity was too high for the threshold to stay stable and once again confirmed that 4PM was about as far high as I could push it without the threshold going out to lunch on me all the time. Again, just shocked that Auto didn't see the coin and yet the lowest manual did. First time I've ever seen Auto go that low.
The other curious thing is I can think of only one other time where the buried dime test put sensitivity high enough to even mess with the threshold, but again I was more going with just what sensitivity would allow today. Since it was already super low to get it stable there wasn't much point to calibrating it with the dime to judge where it should be. I mainly did the dime test to confirm that it would pick it up fine at 4PM and just where Auto was dropping out. Glad I tested all that because it was a real shocker to see Auto that low. Just goes to show that you should never assume the same settings at the same spot on two different days. If anything it's important to not assume Auto it getting about 3PM in depth all the time. You might very well find out that on a particular day even the lowest manual is deeper than Auto, so don't assume that if manual is unstable until it's almost dead lowest that you should just use Auto. No matter how low you have to go in manual to get the machine stable always test Auto against it and see which is giving more depth. On some days Auto will be very stable yet give more depth than where ever manual needs to be to get the machine running smooth. Test, compare, and set your machine up properly before each hunt to insure you are getting max depth via either Auto or a properly set manual setting.
So on to the PP, All Metal, Discriminate comparisons. After I finished gridding the section I wanted to get done today I decided to play with these functions a bit. Cranked up the volume all the way so as to leave no doubt as to being able to hear PP. Threw the machine into All Metal Track and swept around in a clean area of beach for about five minutes to let it adjust properly, then threw it over to All Metal fixed and started looking for targets. Found something deep and threw it from All Metal Fixed over to PP and for sure PP is more pronounced (louder). It also makes you notice the target more due to the nature of PP in it's oscillating pitch based on coil proximity to the target. All Metal is more flat and uniform in it's response and, while I had no trouble seeing the Target in All Metal, it was for sure less of a "HERE I AM" type of statement compared to how PP reacts to try to get you to take notice. Threw it over to discriminate and could not hear the target. Dug it up and from the depths of about 6 or 7" came a piece of rusted steel roughly the size of a dime.
Off I go searching for more targets. Half the time I was seeking them out in PP and the other half I was seeking them out in All Metal fixed. That way I could judge if either was deeper than the other. I should have buried a target at fringe for one of them and seen if the other would still hear it. Next time I'll do that as I'm anxious to see if PP or All Metal is deeper. My money is on All Metal so long as the ground balance is set properly and not running in tracking (which can track out a deep target after you've swept over it a few times). Also played with the pump method of setting the ground balance in fixed to see if I could notice any difference between doing it that way and using the sweeping method. Saw no difference but Minelab states that setting ground balance by using the tracking method will adjust it a little hot for best depth anyway, so I don't see much point using the pump method unless you can't find a clean spot to sweep over for a few minutes. That's important because any targets or iron in the soil might throw off ground balance while setting it via tracking before throwing it over to fixed. Always make sure you are in a clean spot and sweep over that same area for several minutes before going to fixed. Otherwise use the pump method in whatever small clean spot you can find. So I didn't find any targets that All Metal could get and PP couldn't and vise versa, but as said I need to go to fringe depth on a target and then see which one finally can't keep up with the other.
For the next half hour I kept hunting in All Metal or PP and then compared the two to each other, then would go to discriminate to see if it would hear it. I dug about 5 or 6 bobby pins, 4 or 5 pieces of rusted steel roughly dime to nickle in size, a steel washer, an eye bolt, and about 4 or 5 nails or so. Discriminate could not hear any of these targets, which it shouldn't because that's Iron Mask doing it's magic to ignore ferrous junk like that. Some of the targets Discriminate would null over. At least 75% of them if not all of them but I can't remember for sure. I'll once again say that PP was more dramatic in the way it reacts to make you notice a target where as All Metal is more "flat" and uniform in it's response. Not hard to notice, just not as dramatic of a response as PP.
After a good half hour of removing my share of steel and iron from the beach I'll say that I for sure felt like I was using a PI unit. I feel real sorry for those guys in how many bobby pins and other junk they have to dig. This was an area I had already gridded prior to this experiment so I was real happy to see all the junk iron and steel that discriminate kept out of my life with my prior grid. I kept thinking that even if PP or All Metal was deeper in certain locations for people you have to think about all the time you are waisting digging junk that Discriminate otherwise would never bother you with. I for sure wouldn't use PP or All Metal when targets are plentiful, because while you are digging all the lost bits of humanity out of the sand your competition is allowing discriminate work it's magic and get them to the "good" finds before you. I hardly even moved out of about a 10x15 foot area in that length of time, where as in discriminate I would have probably covered 10 times that amount of ground not being slowed down by nails and other junk that PP is telling me to dig.
More importantly in distinction, though, I for sure could see the merits of running in PP or All Metal when targets are few and far between. In that case it's not a matter of who gets what first, but who takes the time to listen and work any deep whispers in the hopes of getting the goods that way. That's also an important thing to remember when you envy guys running around with other machines like a chicken with it's head cut off. They may be covering more ground faster than you in the horizontal axis, but you've got to remember that your Excal or Sovereign is covering more ground in the vertical respect (meaning depth). If he's getting 6 to 8" of depth (typical for most other machines on the beach) then there's a good chance your Sovereign or Excal is getting perhaps double that or more. In effect you are covering twice as much ground with each pass in the vertical respect, so you can think to yourself that your sweep speed is in effect double the slower pace you are swinging at if you know what I mean. Of course going to a larger coil will also in effect increase your "sweep speed" in a sense in that you are covering more ground per sweep than somebody swinging faster with a smaller coil.
While on the subject, I realized something today about the sweep speed of the Sovereign. I was swinging at my normal pace which to me leans towards a more medium speed. I seem to get the best hit on a target at depth at that speed, though I still do the short/fast wiggle once the threshold reacts in anyway (even a null) to derive the best ID from the target. Still, I wouldn't call this speed slow. Most sweep the Sovereign much slower. Oh sure, it's not as fast as my Whites could go, but it's about the same pace I would swing my Whites at which is comfortable for me- around a medium speed (at least to me I'd call it that). Anyway, my point is I was thinking that the "best" swing rate I've found for best depth/hit when searching out the next target is about the perfect speed for me that I normally hunt at regardless of machine. I'm not one to whip a machine around like somebody on speed. I try to swing at a speed that matches my slow walking pace. I try to time the two so that for roughly every step I take (slowly) I get about two to three sweeps in a 3 to 4 foot sweep with my detector.
I've said this already but I find the stock 10" coil to be an odd match for my rate of swing/walking speed. I find myself having to hold a step back in mid air until I finish covering the ground directly ahead of me with the coil. Maybe I'm just used to the 15x12 where in two or three sweeps it's already "cleared the ground" for me to keep what feels like a comfortable "in sync" walking pace for me. I was watching the 10" coil today and noting how much ground was "left" that I needed to cover before I could finish taking the next step. Roughly it seems like I need another 2" per sweep to get things back in sync again, so I'm hoping the 12x10 will fit the bill in that respect so that I don't have to "think" about my next step. I never realized it before but when things throw you off your normal routine what is automatic becomes a game of mental concentration when hunting. I found myself having to watch my sweep, think about my next step, and make sure I was not missing any ground with the two or three sweeps I was making before my next step. Very odd to have to think of those things when normally I could be eyeing the girls on the beach or off somewhere day dreaming in my head while I wait to hear any change in threshold.
Just thought I'd throw this out there for people. If you never feel quite comfortable with your coverage or walking/sweeping motion then perhaps a bigger coil is in order to smooth out the routine for you. I almost felt like I was going to trip over my own two feet or the coil with the constant mental effort I had to put into something that would otherwise come natural. The 15x12 spoiled me in that respect and I hope the 12x10 will have me back on track with my motion again. I've also noticed that it's a lot less swinging effort to cover the ground with a bigger coil. You can in effect not have to be horsing the coil around to make sure you cover everything in time before your next automatic step. In that way the 15x12 I feel was easier on my shoulder because with the 10" coil I feel like I'm trying to force things to get done before I take the next step.
That's about all I've got on today's testing. Next time it's fringe depth and see if PP, All Metal Fixed, or Discriminate wins out on this beach. Regardless, I don't think I'll take a fancy to using PP or All Metal on any of my beaches until targets widdle down in numbers by mid winter or so. Heck, I'm digging tons of round tabs way up on the dry sand where no wave action could have placed them. That blows my mind that the so called beach hunters around here haven't dug these things up in the last 30 years. Either they are lazy and don't pick up their trash (seen a few leaving stuff behind at a few beaches this summer), or maybe it's just that they aren't getting the depth that the Sovereign is getting at these beaches. What am I thinking...Of course they aren't!
Yesterday I got a gold filled woman's ring with a large fake diamond. Had my heart going until I saw it was obviously gold plated by it being worn off on the bottom in a little spot. Too bad, it would have been a good hunk of scrap gold to cash in. I'll be getting the 12x10 by Wednesday or Thursday and I'm anxious to re-grid one of the sections I've already done with the 10" coil to see if the 12x10 starts popping stuff the 10" Tornado missed. Also, it'll be real interesting to see if this coil allows higher sensitivity settings on this beach like the 15x12, and also where it wants sensitivity via my buried dime test. Along with all that I'm anxious to see if it's popping coins deeper than the lousy performance the 10" coil has been getting there. On the prior few days in Auto 5, 6, and *maybe* 7" deep was max and mostly not very good signals on coins at those depths. Today in manual 4PM I was getting 8 or 9" maybe. Still not stellar performance for the GT, but imagine how bad other non-Minelabs are doing there! If the 12x10 gets me past 8 or 9" deep then I'll know it's beating the stock coil on this beach like the 15x12 did in the sand.
Long mostly pointless ramble but hope you were able to make it through this message...
Critterhunter
New member
Wow, that may be my longest message yet. 
Not even sure it went any where. 
One more minor thing on the PP/Discriminate debate- So far I don't feel PP is deeper, but I do believe it will see targets in high mineral beaches that Discriminate is having trouble detecting. That's either due to the iron or other mineral content lowering the target's conductivity into the iron or perhaps ground signal range, or perhaps the target is on edge and thus it's conductivity is really low and hits Iron Mask. I'm still looking for that point where I see PP is deeper, though. So far it hasn't been in all my testing and not just today in my soil. Better at hitting on targets when conductivity due to angle or ground mineral content is pushing it low? Yes. But deeper? I'm not convinced of that in my soil and beaches, but I'll play with it more as well as All Metal to see which wins out over Discrimination, if any.
Not even sure it went any where. One more minor thing on the PP/Discriminate debate- So far I don't feel PP is deeper, but I do believe it will see targets in high mineral beaches that Discriminate is having trouble detecting. That's either due to the iron or other mineral content lowering the target's conductivity into the iron or perhaps ground signal range, or perhaps the target is on edge and thus it's conductivity is really low and hits Iron Mask. I'm still looking for that point where I see PP is deeper, though. So far it hasn't been in all my testing and not just today in my soil. Better at hitting on targets when conductivity due to angle or ground mineral content is pushing it low? Yes. But deeper? I'm not convinced of that in my soil and beaches, but I'll play with it more as well as All Metal to see which wins out over Discrimination, if any.Critterhunter
New member
Headed back to that beach today to grid yet another new section. This time the GT allowed me to raise the sensitivity the highest yet on this beach using the 10" stock coil- right at 3PM. The threshold was a tiny bit more in and out than it was with the slightly lower setting yesterday, but based on my buried dime test I was confident 3PM was going to give me the best depth/response even with the threshold dropping out every 4 or 5 sweeps or so. Since this is the highest setting yet that the 10" coil has been able to do at this site, I plan to re-grid today's hunted area with the 12x10 when it gets here in a few days. That should be a good test to see if it's getting deeper or finding targets that the 10" Tornado missed, because I really gridded intensly today and overlapped my rows by about half to insure complete coverage. I'm also anxious to see if the 12x10 allows for higher sensitivity settings without the threshold bombing out. I suspect it will based on how well the 15x12 has done for me at this beach.
I didn't really play with AM/PP/Disc today because I was in a hurry to finish gridding this section of beach. It's easier to remember where I left off by finishing up this particular section and using land marks to know where I need to go next. When the 12x10 arrives I'll be heading right back to this same spot to see what the 10" missed. The only real testing I did today was to pay notice as to how hard PP was hitting on targets that were almost a complete null with discrimination. Due to the bad minerals at this beach or the coin being on edge, there were several coins at depth (8 or 9") that discriminate was having a hard time giving a good response to but for sure was doing enough to let me know something was there. However, PP was better at sounding off to these problem targets. Most of them turned out to be iron or steel that one should expect discriminate to be dropping out on. I can only think of two or three deep coins that I thought for sure were going to be junk based on discriminates response yet turned out to be coins and that PP hit hard on. Whether that's due to the coin's orientation in the ground or the high minerals/iron causing targets to drop in conductivity is any body's guess.
Two junk earrings today (one was a loop about the size of a pea and I thought it was gold at first) and a few bucks in clad. Nothing major, since I had already worked this section randomly a few weeks ago without gridding.
I didn't really play with AM/PP/Disc today because I was in a hurry to finish gridding this section of beach. It's easier to remember where I left off by finishing up this particular section and using land marks to know where I need to go next. When the 12x10 arrives I'll be heading right back to this same spot to see what the 10" missed. The only real testing I did today was to pay notice as to how hard PP was hitting on targets that were almost a complete null with discrimination. Due to the bad minerals at this beach or the coin being on edge, there were several coins at depth (8 or 9") that discriminate was having a hard time giving a good response to but for sure was doing enough to let me know something was there. However, PP was better at sounding off to these problem targets. Most of them turned out to be iron or steel that one should expect discriminate to be dropping out on. I can only think of two or three deep coins that I thought for sure were going to be junk based on discriminates response yet turned out to be coins and that PP hit hard on. Whether that's due to the coin's orientation in the ground or the high minerals/iron causing targets to drop in conductivity is any body's guess.
Two junk earrings today (one was a loop about the size of a pea and I thought it was gold at first) and a few bucks in clad. Nothing major, since I had already worked this section randomly a few weeks ago without gridding.