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Digging deep and hitting pipes and wires?
- Thread starter Mapleton
- Start date
prep1957, it's interesting having someone like yourself, coming from a utility co's perspective, in regard to the "call before you dig" laws. So thank you very much for chiming in. I had only rarely heard of this law/rule being morphed to apply to md'ing, because it's usually just assumed that the admonitions from the utility co's are directed at const. co's getting ready to do trenching with heavy equipment. But you are making it quite clear, that the law/rules apply to ANY digging. Very interesting 
You go on to cite a portion of the "metal detecting code of ethics:
"Every treasure magazine I have ever read will tell you CHECK YOUR STATE LAWS"
Well, let's put it this way, if you want to start down that road, you really should give up detecting. I mean, let's look at some of the others we can all run afoul of, if we really want to try to be technical.
1) "no collecting" verbage. Yup it's there. This is to keep someone from backing up their pickup truck to the park, and harvesting the flowers, removing tan-bark, sand, or any other resources. Makes sense, so no one can just start mining parks and beaches for their own personal profit, and depriving the next park or beach goers of pretty rocks, flowers, etc.... right? But wait! if you think of it, and want to follow all laws, there's utterly no reason why this "collecting" verbage doesn't apply to us md'rs! Afterall, why do we think we can "collect" coins and such?
2) Lost and found verbage. Yup, it's there. Every state has lost & found verbage, that you must turn in any item ..... over a certain dollar amount, to the police, to wait and see if someone comes forward to claim it. Well last time I looked at ANY of the beach md'ing forums, there was/is no shortage of hobbyists posting pix of their trophies. I don't think they're all taking them to the police dept, do you?
3) Antiquites laws & cultural heritage verbage. (50 and/or 100 yr. bologna) And while this is generally considered to state and federal land level stuff, I bet cities wouldn't be any different if you kept asking high enough up the chain of command, in any city hall, anywhere. For example: I challenge anyone here, who thinks they have a green light in their city, to hunt your city parks or schools, to waltz in to city hall, wherever you live, and hold up a choice seated quarter, with collectible value. Ask the clerk: "hi, I found this in your park, is it ok if I keep it? Or do you think it belongs in the city museum, since it came from city property?" And see what the clerk says.
4) "damage" "destruction" and "vandalism" clauses. Even if you could get past the "call before you dig" stuff, the unfortunate knee-jerk reaction, of any deskbound bureaucrat, when they hear the word "dig", is that you're going to be a dodo and leave holes. You can try to tell them that you'll leave no trace. But usually the mental damage is done, the minute you start talking about digging, no matter HOW careful, and no matter HOW shallow you are going to be.
5) IRS and tax law. How many here list their detecting income (no matter how modest or small)? Oh sure, you can say "well, if I did list it, I could merely list expenses (cost of detector, batteries, travel, etc....) that would merely off-set it to zero. Well that's fine. Perhaps you have a net zero gain. But "technically" speaking here (afterall, that's the point of the TH'rs code of ethics about following all laws, right?) you need to list income, and ...... if you want ... off-setting expenses. I don't think any hobbyist do this.
And I can go on and on with other laws. The point I'm trying to make is, I don't think any of us could really apply all these things, call utilities each time we get a signal to dig, etc..... You should probably just get another hobby.
And mind you: probably no one really cares! Do you think the IRS really cares? Do you think anyone in city hall really cared that you dug a hole in the sand box and "collected"? Do you think the utility co. really cares if you're about to dig that hole in the sandbox? Do you think a museum or state archaeologist really wants that 1949 wheat penny? Do you think anyone's really going to come in to the police dept. and "claim" a plain men's band that's probably been lost for 10 yrs?
You go on to cite a portion of the "metal detecting code of ethics:
"Every treasure magazine I have ever read will tell you CHECK YOUR STATE LAWS"
Well, let's put it this way, if you want to start down that road, you really should give up detecting. I mean, let's look at some of the others we can all run afoul of, if we really want to try to be technical.
1) "no collecting" verbage. Yup it's there. This is to keep someone from backing up their pickup truck to the park, and harvesting the flowers, removing tan-bark, sand, or any other resources. Makes sense, so no one can just start mining parks and beaches for their own personal profit, and depriving the next park or beach goers of pretty rocks, flowers, etc.... right? But wait! if you think of it, and want to follow all laws, there's utterly no reason why this "collecting" verbage doesn't apply to us md'rs! Afterall, why do we think we can "collect" coins and such?
2) Lost and found verbage. Yup, it's there. Every state has lost & found verbage, that you must turn in any item ..... over a certain dollar amount, to the police, to wait and see if someone comes forward to claim it. Well last time I looked at ANY of the beach md'ing forums, there was/is no shortage of hobbyists posting pix of their trophies. I don't think they're all taking them to the police dept, do you?
3) Antiquites laws & cultural heritage verbage. (50 and/or 100 yr. bologna) And while this is generally considered to state and federal land level stuff, I bet cities wouldn't be any different if you kept asking high enough up the chain of command, in any city hall, anywhere. For example: I challenge anyone here, who thinks they have a green light in their city, to hunt your city parks or schools, to waltz in to city hall, wherever you live, and hold up a choice seated quarter, with collectible value. Ask the clerk: "hi, I found this in your park, is it ok if I keep it? Or do you think it belongs in the city museum, since it came from city property?" And see what the clerk says.
4) "damage" "destruction" and "vandalism" clauses. Even if you could get past the "call before you dig" stuff, the unfortunate knee-jerk reaction, of any deskbound bureaucrat, when they hear the word "dig", is that you're going to be a dodo and leave holes. You can try to tell them that you'll leave no trace. But usually the mental damage is done, the minute you start talking about digging, no matter HOW careful, and no matter HOW shallow you are going to be.
5) IRS and tax law. How many here list their detecting income (no matter how modest or small)? Oh sure, you can say "well, if I did list it, I could merely list expenses (cost of detector, batteries, travel, etc....) that would merely off-set it to zero. Well that's fine. Perhaps you have a net zero gain. But "technically" speaking here (afterall, that's the point of the TH'rs code of ethics about following all laws, right?) you need to list income, and ...... if you want ... off-setting expenses. I don't think any hobbyist do this.
And I can go on and on with other laws. The point I'm trying to make is, I don't think any of us could really apply all these things, call utilities each time we get a signal to dig, etc..... You should probably just get another hobby.
And mind you: probably no one really cares! Do you think the IRS really cares? Do you think anyone in city hall really cared that you dug a hole in the sand box and "collected"? Do you think the utility co. really cares if you're about to dig that hole in the sandbox? Do you think a museum or state archaeologist really wants that 1949 wheat penny? Do you think anyone's really going to come in to the police dept. and "claim" a plain men's band that's probably been lost for 10 yrs?
Tom you are right. Technically metal detecting is 100% illegal on all public lands pretty much everywhere if you understand the law and its interpretation. Fortunately this is not widely enforced, but give the socialist agenda that has gripped this country some time and they will be.
Tom nothing has stopped me either and you are absolutely right nobody cares this was mostly for all the new guys out there that think they can dig on any public land,city property,etc.most detectorist no nothing about about right of way law I see you are from CA you live in the only state more communist than the state of Illinois and also with as much debt.I have been fighting to keep our gun rights in Illinois to some success but it has been a long time coming.We have lost most of most of our rights because the far left took them and we said nothing.My hope that hunters,fisherman,trappers,detectorist,gun owners, come together. To eliminate government take over and that the once great Unions are stopped being used as a pawn to make the government's great evil happen.I hope the tea party is the place that we can come together its existence and growth are simply a miracle.Like I said in a previous post.Good luck ,be safe,all my fellow lawbreakers and happy new year I am sure there new laws that have been passed effective at midnight tonight.
D&P-OR said:Prep1957-----Don't look like you're making a whole lot of friends on this thread--do it??----Curious, you keep speaking in terms of "my pipelines", "my pipelines".-----Are you not merely an employee of the state of Illinois or do you actually OWN the state of Illinois??----Seems to me you have a bit of an "attitude problem" about this whole discussion.------Well, irregardless----I'm goin "tectin, gonna dig a 2" hole (not 3", mind you, heavens no).----Been doin it since 1975 with NO PROBLEMS!---Well, maybe some of those holes have been a WEE bit more than 2"!!!------BTW, do YOU like to metal detect?
No I am not an employee of Illinois I would have to take a pay cut,the state is broke and cannot pay its bills even our state troopers have to go to certain places to fill up because other places refuse to take Illinois card.With the cost of our taxes and my property tax bill I do not own Illinois but I certainly think I have paid for it.It is good thing I do not own it I would have creditors after me.When my employer handed me a brand new truck to use an take home every night it became '' my truck" I took care of all its needs,maintenance,licence,etc I was responsible.When I was told I was responsible for pipelines in several counties in Illinois they became " My pipelines" My bosses area is Wisconsin and Illinois I am his responsibility and both states are "his area"I hope to think that the police,firemen,and other utilities look and say that is " My House" to protect when referring to my residence.When the traffic controller at O Hare or Midway sits down for his shift those are his planes now or at the Nuclear plant,railroad,truck driver,etc.I really cannot believe after reading my posts that you would go out and dig a 2 inch hole you law breaker. Happy New Year.If you get a chance watch Meteorite Men not only do they dig up a pipeline but they beat on it with a shovel now that is -attitude problem-
I live in N. IL. and would add my 2 cents, but this one has been beaten to death, LOL! I just wonder why my property taxes are so high since I don't really "own" land as I have to ask permission any time I want to plant a bush...how many different government entities do I have to contact to determine where and where I cannot dig?!? I just got into this hobby and am now disheartened with all the heavy-handed government regulations in IL. We're still home of the brave, but not so much on land of the free anymore.
Wow... all of this from a simple question of hitting wires? Luckily I'm in Georgia, and in a rural area, so none of this is really an issue for me. I only use a trowel with a 5" blade, and rarely dig over that depth. I have never had any issue with hitting any wires, cables, or pipes at these depths.
Good luck and HH!
Good luck and HH!
Like Hombre said, wires and pipes are pretty easy to tell by their running in a line out from where you get a signal. In fact, checking the size and orientation of the target is a real good habit to be in to avoid just such an accident and it can help you to avoid digging up junk, if you're coinhunting. I've run across shallow wires in yards numerous times, but I've never cut one and I can always tell that's what it is before I dig.
MNCoinhunter
Active member
The only issue we have up here, is that a lot of people use propane to heat their homes. So when I am hunting a private home I always make it a point to look for a propane tank, because that copper gas line can be as shallow as six inches. I know because I found more than a few when I first started metal detecting. Luckily I was only using garden tools. I'm not saying that a Lesche won't break a gas line, but a shovel definately would have.