Did he find it or not?

[gitterdug]

prizes for finds of the month. Therefore, EVERY member is being stolen from when anyone cheats by showing up with finds that are actually not found while metal detecting. Are there clear cut rules in your club? For instance, I have hunted a beach, and seen a ring without running my detector over it. Is THAT a qualified find?

Some things are so obvious, it is remarkable that someone doesn't call them on it. Toys that are perfect, without blemish, brass untarnished, copper that is pristine. Not to say it isn't possible, but.....how likely is it that the object claimed is in the condition it should be in? Seasoned detectorists can tell a great deal.

How about bringing this issue up in the club, that some people have expressed concerns about the authenticity of finds, and open the floor for suggestions as to how to address the issue. Form a committee and ask the person to be a member. Getting him to buy into an organized attempt to create integrity within the club might just get him to be a good boy.......

Just my thoughts.....

 

[Eddie in Poulsbo]

Very good thoughts kuletule and thanks for your comments. I think we have all found things just lying on top of the ground including me. I don't believe our club actually states that things entered for finds of the month have to be dug out of the ground per say, but in most cases where things are found I believe the majority are items dug. I also agree that certain items that some claim to have dug just don't seem to fit the appearance of coming out of the ground. I have only been detecting for a little over four years and I'm by far no expert, but I'm not a fool either. I have just sent an email to the rest of our club members and asked to have a meeting on this guy and we'll see what happens. This guy is one of our board members, but he won't be invited to the meeting I want to hold. He belongs to about four or five other clubs and I have heard some rumblings about him pulling the same crap at other meetings. We'll get it fixed one way or the other. Thanks again and HH.

Eddie

 

[Jerry/Oregon]

Eddie, have everyone fill out a form listing there finds before they are put on a table. If you would like to see what the club does here in Portland go to www.otts.org, click on "Find of the Month" and then click on "FOTM entry form" and print it out. I hope this helps, and yes we have had people like that also, and had to remove them from our club.

Jerry

 

[ojm bc]

n/t

 

[jb]

There are a lot of good suggestions to bring up at the next meeting Eddie. If I'm not mistaken this gentleman is now a Board Member. The Scavenger Hunt should be a no brainer in this case. The member in charge of it should now require each participant to keep a regular sheet of all items and each month he will be required to bring it in along with the items found and and that sheet of paper signed and verified by another member and then submitted to the Scavenger Hunt Chairman for final verification and sign off. All of my items are verified in the field by my hunt partner or at home upon arrival still in the dirty pouch. My wife is also a member.Getting another member to sign off on the paper may be a problem for someone and they won't want to do it unless they trust the person or is there when found.

Find of the month needs to be addressed at the next meeting for a fresh start of the year coming up. Do not wait until later in the year as it's not fair to the rest of the members to change in midstream. Require all finds to be brought in for the entry of the current month to be uncleaned and in dug condition, little messy but would work, require a brief but short history of where, when, how, weather, depth, place and etc of the find and who was there if anyone.
This will require a larger submission form than we now have but can be done. These can all be brought up at the board with everyone present and then presented to the members to vote on. Just a thought on my observations of the past finds.
You try to be tactful but it may come to the point of calling a Spade a Spade,

 

[Eddie in Poulsbo]

Missed you at the xmas party John. Not that many showed up, but the food was good and nobody went home hungry. Guess you know about the other stuff that went on, so no need to rehash it all again. I'm not sure how to handle things, but I agree with you that things do have to be changed. It's a shame that rules that are made simple and easy to follow have to be made more difficult now because one jerk has a big head and wants to steal the show by being dishonest about the finds he brings in. I emailed some board members and asked to hold a meeting to see what can be done about this. The sooner the better and if we can't get this resolved then I may drop out of the club. I am trying to be tactful about this, but bottom line is I will call a spade a spade if I have to. HH.

Eddie

 

[Crispytoo]

Metal detecting clubs are like a family. You have members that you like, tolerate or even dislike at times. There's always going to be the blacksheep who demands the attention whether it's good or bad. Sometimes it's a cry for help. It is a very sad thing to experience and also very unfair to the rest of the club. Integrity is not a value that is cherished by all. I know a person who is a textbook pathological liar. It is almost like they want to get caught. Once again a cry for help. This doesn't mean it has to be tolerated and certainly not at the risk of displacing the other good folks in the club. Intervention/confrontation is sometimes the only way to get them there. I hope you can work it out.

Crispytoo

 

[jb]

Dropping out of the club isn't even a good thought Eddie, everyone pretty well knows what is submitted by whom. We don't vote for the particular find and sooner or later it will get across to this person. Ask Ron to ask Mark about it, I believe this person is also a member there as well as our other club. Most of the members in the
Belfair club know who is who and what is going on. Case in point. When you go to the annual out of town hunt and your the only one to find Silver in a spot that most members just hunted and the silver is older than the place, something doesn't add up to 2 and 2. I find it very hard to believe that the finds are authentic MD finds from the area we live in consistently in places we have hunted. Anything is possible but I still haven't won the big lottery yet either.

 

[Eddie(AL)]

n/t

 

[savage]

Well said jb Have each member bring their items "UNCLEANED", for the monthly Club find of the month. After the finds are inspected and verified dug, then allow them to be placed for judging. If the individual is dishonest it will surface. Again jb, Well said. Happy Hunting Grounds,

Savage.

 

[James N.D.]

I think it is a great idea on JB's part and I agree with you also Savage about how good of an idea it is, but there is only 1 problem I would have with this and that would be the Silver Finds. If you were to leave your Silver Finds such as Coins with the dirt on them with you other finds or even in a different container or what have you, the dirt would leave light scratch marks on the surfaces and that I wouldn't like any part of. The first thing I do after I come home from an outing is gather up the Silver just dug and wash the dirt off so it doesn't give the coins the appearance of a CLEANED COIN, as a Dealer would put it. That is the only problem that I have with the idea, but like I said before, it is a Great Idea and it would work unless of course this person doesn't clean any of their finds at all and just keeps them as found. Then that would be another problem.

 

[jb]

Personally I don't have a problem with a little rinse off of a nice coin. I do it all the time and I don't expect someone to bring in a plug with the coin still in it. What I do expect to see is some type of indication something was dug from the ground and not something bought or acquired from another source.

 

[James N.D.]

Now that would be something to see guys. And I am not talking about a small shock either, something that kicks like a Tazer Gun. I can see the suspected cheater now, Hair standing straight up with tear filled eyes saying he would never do it again while he is sitting there stuttering when before he could talk normal and wetting himself uncontrollably. Now that would weed guys like him out! What do you guys think about that option? Any takers???

 

[gobble-gobble]

I would just come out & tell him , that I think we have a problem ,then tell him the truth .Lay it on him then he might resign from the club, You don't need people like this let alone a fellow hobbiest to ruin it for everyone else. It's just very sad that people can do things like this.

 

[James N.D.]

This hobby is for the fun and making new friends and showing everyone your finds and even taking friends to these sights so they can have a chance themselves to find some great stuff, but there always seems to be a person that wants to wreck it for everyone else. But, I guess that is what makes the world go round now days. I also love seeing others finds and it just makes me want to get out there and make more great finds in hopes of recovering great finds like the other detectorist's make during the year. I guess the only way to fix something like this is to just confront the guy about this or just mention something about a certain person was caught cheating and this and that was done and see what kind of expressions the guy gives on his face when you are talking about this. That would give away most of the Cheater's right off the bat if they start to get nervous. Hope Eddie comes up with a solution for this problem and I wish his Club a lot of Luck.

 

[69scrounge]

Unfortunatly, I think that everyone is missing the point of what clubs,scavenger hunts, and monthly find showcases are all about. To me it's to promote the hobby and to keep the membership exited about going out and finding that extraordinary item that everyone enjoys seeing as much as you enjoyed finding.
Forget the winning of contests, they are only a bonus, the real reward was the thrill of the find, and being with fellow club members who enjoy the hobby as much as you do, and the retelling of how and where the prize was recovered.
Yes I have some doubts about some finds that I've seen come in, and the scavenger hunt items appeared a lot sooner than expected, but the jury is still out on whether it was just luck or hard work or through dishonesty. We all have had lucky streaks, and yet no one questioned us because we all, as the saying goes, " paid our dues" , and then this new fellow comes along and blows us away and gets a lot of attention real fast. Too fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Like I said the jury is still out, but is it worth leaving your Club and friends in protest? Who gets hurt the most? Is the possible offender going to understand? We don't even know if he's in the wrong.
We all need to look the situation over, make informed decisions, and get on with enjoying the hobby,our friends, and our detectors, thats what's important to me.

 

[savage]

Greetings, James N.D. I also rinse the silver off after a day's hunt.
For the most part, "old" silver that has been in the ground for allot of years, will still retain that "dug" look with a water rinsing. Exceptions would be some of the newer 60"s silver. For the most part, one can tell if any of the finds of the month displayed, are 'DUG'. However, their are exceptions. An example would be a watch or coins, etc; that were lost the previous day at the beach. For the most part, we all have retrieved enough targets to know the difference between a dug item "vs" a non dug item. Remember their are all way's exceptions though. Thanks James N.D. Happy Hunting Grounds,

Savage

 

[Mike Moutray - St.Louis MO]

I have been a member of my local club for 19 years and we have seen our fair share of new members with "questionable" finds. I've collected coins since 1st grade and detected for 25 years, I've seen enough natural finds with the usual signs of being buried in the ground to tell fairly certainly if a find was legitimate or not. I've also seen many tarnish patterns and cleaning traces from coins that were "store bought". With this said I've seen several times over the years - finds that were obviously not "ground finds" and some that were not so obvious. The offenders usually were new members trying to make an impression.

The best way to handle these people, that we've found, is to just ignore them and their finds - a good "shunning" - people who are wanting attention can't stand that, especially from the long time or well known members, and inevitably, them and their fake finds just go away. Also our find-of the-month contest only awards a silver quarter to 4 winners, so there isn't much to gain from turning in a bogus find, and the 3 judges are appointed by the club president at each meeting right before the finds are submitted, so that there is a variety of people serving as judge one month to the next. They have the power to decide what wins and what doesn't, including determining the validity of the submitted finds.

Twice I have privately confronted suspected culprits and told them that their finds were questioned by club members,and without accusing them of anything, explain to them the club member's position on the submittal of bogus finds. Both of them quietly faded out of the limelight and eventually quit the club. I would never do this without being absolutely certain of their dubious intentions because the last thing you want to do is level false accusations against a straight-up person with legitimate finds.... I know, because I've received skepticism on my finds, more than once over the years, and you have to accept that there are "lucky and unbelievable" finds made from time to time, especially by really dedicated and successful hunters.
Give them the benefit of the doubt, but don't let them get too out of hand.

Many clubs have provisions in their charter/constitution for bringing up members for expulsion for "detrimental action or character" but this should only be used as a last resort.

Good luck with your problem and take care, Mike - St. Louis

 

[jb]

Very well said Mike and a couple of your suggestions would probably be very useful and could be implemented without any problems. We do have some very lucky guy's as well top hunters but, as all club's I'm sure, have a questionable.

 

[John LA]

A door prize may be better than a prize for being lucky. Even MD forums have lucky people.