determining depth with the Eldorado?

[Anonymous]

I'm interested in getting into metal detecting. I think the Eldorado would fit my uses and budget. I'll probably start off in parks and freshwater beaches looking for jewelry and coins. What really interests me are old home sites, and will probably work my way up to them after spending some time in the parks near home. May also get up to some gold mining areas with a friend once in awhile. I think the Eldorado would be best for me overall (especially the manual ground balance (?) for the beaches and gold areas?).
However, talking with a dealer who most of the time only gets to nearby parks due to time constraints (like me probably!) - he likes the DeLeon because it gives a depth. Then he concentrates on the shallow stuff so he's not digging a big hole in the middle of the park.
The depth sounds like a useful thing to know, so MY QUESTION (finally!) - can you get an ESTIMATE on the target depth with the Eldorado by the tone, or by raising the coil, or by decreasing the sensitivity, etc? (Or just punch down with a brass rod??) The Eldorado seems more versatile than the DeLeon, and I'm not so sure I need all the other ID stuff on it.

 

[Anonymous]

If you are not interested in a target ID machine, the Eldorado is an excellent choice.
If you are interested in maximum depth, consider spending a little more and buy the Tejon. I strongly recommend the Tejon to anyone who can afford it.
Pete James
Awardmasters Metal Detectors

 

[Anonymous]

All of the methods you mentioned are good ways to determine depth. Your dealer is correct about responsible recovery, but if you follow proper recovery methods and work high visibility areas when the soil is damp, you should not be leaving noticable spots in the ground. Practice recovery where it will not cause park bans. Because you will be in public areas you will most likely get into some high trash areas and you can't beat Tesoro for discrimination. To me that is the highest priority for the kind of hunting you mention. Depth is mandatory for the relic hunters but coin hunters can get by quite nicely in the six inch range. I am fortunate to be in the upper midwest where the soil is excellant and manual ground balance is not necessary. Try to find out if that will be necessary in your area. If not consider a smaller coil with the difference in price.

 

[Anonymous]

Phil: Just a year ago I was faced with these same questions. The guys on this and several other forums patiently walked me through the decision. It is my hope that sharing my experience will assist you in return.
April 1, 2003 I took delivery of an Eldorado, and truly have enjoyed it and this new hobby. It is an audio ID machine meaning that you the operator must by learning the sound of different targets must determine whether to dig or not. It took me little time to become a Beep-Digger. If the machine beeps I dig. And I have no problem with that it has brought me some real success this summer. It will take you a few weeks to a couple months to train your ear to tell the difference between a pull-tab and a coin.
It was not till the Dog Days of Summer, July & August that I could see a want or need for a Target ID (metered) detector. By then the ground had become so dry and hard baked here in Iowa that digging was nearly impossible. And any hole dug in sod would show as a browned out area within a week. This is when I determined that with TID I would not kill grass for a lousy pull-tab nearly as often. And be able to dig shallower holes for shallow targets.
I had fully intended to buy a Deleon this spring for these reasons. The Dealer who sold me my Eldorado (Doug at DJ`s Detectors, since becoming a good friend and sometime hunting partner) sold me his Cortes.
My humble opinion is:
1) The Dealer is doing you a favor by steering you in the direction of the Deleon.
It will speed up the learning process and you will not do as I did and feel the need to buy another detector as soon. And you will likely dig less junk than I did.
2) Yes you can learn to determine depth in the ways you mention.
3) Buy the machine you can afford and never doubt your decision.
4) Get a detector and get in the field, this is a great hobby.
P.S. Feel free to email me if you have questions.

 

[Anonymous]

There are two generic answers to the metered or unmetered question. One answer is that with a TID detector you will miss a number of good targets that the detector gives misinformation about. The other regarding a non TID (metered) detector and having to dig a ton of trash to find the good targets. Both are right and both are wrong.
What both types of detectors require is an accesory to make them perform correctly. That accessory is the human brain.
When it is said that a non TID unit is not as selective as one with a meter I have trouble going along with the statement. Particularly if you are in a situation where because of eviromental concerns you wish only to

 

[Anonymous]

[No message]

 

[Anonymous]

Pap, Jim and got tabs ... I agree with everything you have all said. My first machine was a Tesoro silver sabre. It's an audio only machine as you know, and boy! I really learned a lot about detecting using it <img src="/metal/html/biggrin.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=""> Just like every other beginner, I was digging anything that went 'BEEP'! this was the case for a good 3 months. After a while, you DO get to realize that some targets give a slightly different sounding 'Beep', but it can be pretty subtle. That's why we all had to practice and learn by digging good AND trash targets to begin with.
After 8 years of using the Silver Sabre, I was a pretty good detectorist! even so, I STILL DUG THE OCCASIONAL IRON TARGET, usually the big ones like iron washers and horse shoes .... those suckers will fool most (if not all) machines. Then I decided to trade up to one of the top of the range multi frequency machines with the LCD screen. I thought this would improve my finds rate, and help me identify the BIG iron targets without having to dig them .... <STRONG>WRONG</STRONG> <img src="/metal/html/sad.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":sad"> !!! I found out the hard (and expensive) way that paying big bucks for a machine doesn't guarantee that you will have more success, more depth, and dig less iron...
As some of you already know, I now have the Hawkeye, which for those of you who don't, is the Euro version of the Deleon. This was a few hundred bucks less than my 'multi-frequency' machine, and performance-wise is every bit as good! I find good (and bad!) targets at the same kind of depth that the multi frequency machine gave me. It is NOT PERFECT ... it can give you some 'misinformation' on screen sometimes, but 95% of the time, this relates to big iron targets 'overloading' the machine and coming up on the screen as '95' (just the same as my big bucks multi-frequency machine did). For most of the time though, I can figure out that this is a big iron target, by the 'sharper' audio response.
Some folks like the audio only machines, and some folks like the audio-visual machines, it's a matter of preference. I find that the visual aspect of the Hawkeye really does help in making the decision 'to dig or not to dig'! but don't rely TOO HEAVILY on the screen information on ANY machine, use the audio response to make the final decision!
As it states in the manual:
'No T.I.D. is 100% accurate,if you get a strong positive audio signal when hunting, DIG IT, no matter what the display shows'. HH charlie(UK) <img src="/metal/html/wink.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt="">

 

[Anonymous]

Strictly speaking of depth, a non-ID machine is quite good at telling you depth. If you lift your coil off the ground and the beeping goes away, then its deep. Unless its a small bit of something conductive(a little bit of brass or a gold bead can fool any detector as to depth) Dint forget to add trash targets into the mix to help muddy up the response.
Heres a rule of thumb for you to go by:
If you are in an area where there is the chance of finding good older items, you are gonna dig anything that signals you clearly and is deeper than 3" anyway. Cool?
ID detectors are nice and get one if you can afford it. But, dont rely on the ID as gospel. I want one to display accurate DEPTH(which they are mostly good at)and a VDI number, which experience with THAT machine has taught me is likely correct - but, when after old, I dig no matter what if the depth is more than 3" and the signal is repeatable in at least one direction. In fact , if you want a metal "identifier" you already have two of them. In your head straddling your nose.
Modern detectors (ID or not)are VERY good at dtecting metal and offering a probability of ID(the new "SUM" mode is a nice touch here on the Cortes). That is, however, all they are capable of. While it may seem trite, there is only one sure way to ID a target...get it in your hand. AS for depth that is the easiest part...

 

[Anonymous]

I never intended to suggest a TID was the end-all answer. My belief is that far too many new users get frustrated with a non TID Machine and quit the hobby before they really learn how rewarding it can be.
If a TID machine will reduce that some to start, then it is a better choice?
Heck I hope most people are not as stubborn as I am! <img src="/metal/html/wink.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt="">
I probably would have quit myself if I were not good at accepting failure.

 

[Anonymous]

that read funny after I posted

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Charlie. I agree with what you have said. As I mentioned I do have a mutifrequency detector that I do use on occasion. Actually when I came back into the hobby six or so years ago I purchased a metered detector and stayed with it for about three years before

 

[Anonymous]

Yea, sort of figured that was what you were going for. If it weren't for that I guess neither one of us would be here on this forum.
Pap <img src="/metal/html/lol.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":lol">

 

[Anonymous]

Depth is a beautiful thing but you also need to take width into consideration. Case in point is an experience I had. I started detecting with a green machine. Along a parking lot near a river I detected a wide signal with it. Well the green machine died and went to detector heaven shortly thereafter and after much research I bought an older Golden Sabre 2 because the users liked the dual tones and its talkative nature. I went back to the same parking lot, detected the same "can" signal, walked about twenty feet and came back to it because it sounded "rounder". I dug six Sacajawea dollars out of a six inch wide hole. I now have a Deleon also and it does have great depth. It nailed an old brass bus token that is smaller than a dime at a measured 9 inches. I know that my GS2 will nail multiple coins of different denominations in a single hole but the Deleon will NOT give an accurate reading in the same circumstance due to the different metals; it will show partial on say, nickle and dime in the same hole.I also can say that I have detected very few coins beyond six inches (over a thousand coins last year; thank you pennies) and depth is not one of my main concerns I haven't used a Umax machine but if they have the same tone abilities as the older Tesoros a Golden Umax could also be a good option for coin shooting. I perty near went that direction myself but chose the Deleon because my ears ring all the time and I can't always hear tones correctly. If Tesoro ever combines the tone ID of the GS with TID I am going to be at the front of the line to get one. Now that I have muddied up the issue a bit I would say that if my hearing was better I would prefer the tone machines over TID because my processer (brain) seems to work better than a microchip.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone for all the comments and information. I decided to go with the Eldorado as it seems pretty good in lots of situations (coins/relics/gold/beaches). I'm used to messing with equipment settings in my work, so the ground balance shouldn't be a problem - which is one of the reasons I like the Eldorado. The TID sounds good, so we'll see how much I like this hobby and maybe a Cortes or something will be my second machine!? However, I sure like analog instruments in the field over digital stuff.
I was leaning towards the Eldorado, but also thinking about the Cortez (at least the Cortez has manual GB in all-metal), and mentioned it to my wife. She asked what the difference between the two were, so I tried to explain (with my limited knowledge). She asked what the difference in price was ($300) and I quickly made up my mind to get the Eldorado!! (She bought me a $100 detector at Wallmart as a Christmas present, and doesn't mind me getting the Eldorado - but the Cortez was pushing it!)
Anyway - it should be delivered in a few days and I can't wait to get out and try it. Pap mentioned the fear of doing it (metal detecting!) in public. I think I may have some issues there that I'll have to get over. I'll probably start out in wood chip playgrounds and sandy beaches and play areas before I start digging up the grass.
Thanks again for all the help and information and encouragement.

 

[Anonymous]

Don