Depth reading with the 5.3 Eclipse coil way off...

[Calnevaroy]

In using the 5.3 Eclipse coil I'm finding I have to dig deeper than what the all metal pinpoint indicates in inches. I tested the coil and found the depth reading indicating a full inch deeper than actual in an air test. I also tried a non V rated 5.3 coil and found the same results. I do have the 5.3 Eclipse coil selected under Configure. Is this normal? Also, the coil overloaded on a detected quarter and penny next to each other and less than an inch in depth. Somehow, I don't feel it should overload on the 26 cents but then I am using a smaller coil and I realize those targets are much bigger to that coil than my 950 or D2 coil. Any input would be appreciated. Thank you, Roy

 

[Rob (IL)]

Before going any further, did you test the coil?

Coil Test
The best way to check your coil is to set your gain to 15, and set TX Boost off. Now with the coil in the air waist high (not on the ground or around other metal), if you don't get an overload, your coil is good. That is what the coil is designed for - not overloading at the extremes.

In the sensitivity probe, what is your signal% reading?

You never gave your sensitivity settings but it should not overload on the quarter and penny.

Are you talking about the depth reading in pinpoint with the trigger pulled?

 

[Larry (IL)]

Your All Metal Sensitivity might be set too high.

 

[johno]

make sure you selected proper coil size in menu,,, been awhile since i had the v3i out but seems like i remember there was a coil size selection.

 

[Rob (IL)]

I asked if Roy had a bad coil which we will know after he runs the RX15 coil test. If his coil doesn't overload and is running a high signal% the coil lacks headroom and will overload on shallow targets. Signal% should be no higher than around 40%. Signal% is a percent of when the coil will overload. Coin size targets are not BIG to the 5.3 coil.

He already said he configured the detector for the 5.3 coil. Even if he didn't the readings might be off but there would not be an overload problem. Depth readings are really just a signal strength indicator. The V has two depth readings, a search depth reading and a pinpoint depth reading. The search depth reading is not that accurate.

 

[johno]

sorry bout that my bad

 

[Rob (IL)]

All help is appreciated, John. The whole is smarter than the individual. Have a great day.

 

[Calnevaroy]

Correction. The coil in all metal pinpoint mode indicates a full inch LESS than actual target depth. Rob, I will get around to those tests as soon as I can. I wish to thank all of those who contribute to this forum and the information and help provided.

 

[Calnevaroy]

Rob, I tried your suggestion with TX Boost off and set the Rx Gain to 15 with the coil at waist height but did not experience any instability. With the Sensitivity Probe my signal was 34.2% and Noise 1.5%. The Sensitivity Probe was performed after ground balancing and with the coil held on the ground as per instructions in my owner's manual. I hope I did it correctly. Larry (IL) was correct in that my All Metal sensitivity was set too high, thus the overload problem on the near surface quarter and penny side by side. I must've mistakenly set it to 90 thinking it was the Discriminate sensitivity. I normally run my sensitivities with the 5.3 coil at; Rx 12, All Metal 70 and Discriminate at 90. Further testing in my test garden I find I have to select the stock D2 coil under Configure to come close to having an accurate depth reading with the 5.3 coil. I have not tested my next favorite coil, the 950, but it always seemed to be quite accurate in depth reading. I run with -10 to +94 accepted in Best Data. The 5.3 seems to perform properly except for depth reading accuracy. Thank you for your help, it's appreciated!

 

[yazoo]

Why reject anythig?Accepet everything and assign it a 0 tone if you do not want to hear it but,a 5 will let you know of a for sure clean ground for GBing. if using the V3i. It might even open up a new world of goodies being disc out by not acceptting bad that might be covering good targets. Alot of us use a variation using this in our set up
.
Yazoo

 

[Calnevaroy]

Rob, I tried your suggestion with TX Boost off and set the Rx Gain to 15 with the coil at waist height but did not experience any instability. With the Sensitivity Probe my signal was 34.2% and Noise 1.5%. The Sensitivity Probe was performed after ground balancing and with the coil held on the ground as per instructions in my owner's manual. I hope I did it correctly. Larry (IL) was correct in that my All Metal sensitivity was set too high, thus the overload problem on the near surface quarter and penny side by side. I must've mistakenly set it to 90 thinking it was the Discriminate sensitivity. I normally run my sensitivities with the 5.3 coil at; Rx 12, All Metal 70 and Discriminate at 90. Further testing in my test garden I find I have to select the stock D2 coil under Configure to come close to having an accurate depth reading with the 5.3 coil. I have not tested my next favorite coil, the 950, but it always seemed to be quite accurate in depth reading. I run with -10 to +94 accepted in Best Data. The 5.3 seems to perform properly except for depth reading accuracy. Thank you for your help, it's appreciated!

Correction....again. In spite of lowering the All Metal sensitivity to 70, 60, and 50 I'm still experiencing an overload signal with that darn quarter and penny next to each other on top of the ground. Between the depth reading inaccuracy and overload I wonder if I have a defective coil.

 

[Rob (IL)]

If it doesn't overload with your other coils you have a bad coil. Without changing settings put on another coil. If it doesn't overload call Whites.

Make sure you say it happens with the 5.3 but is good with the other 2 coils.

 

[Neil in West Jersey]

Sorry, but I don't pay a lot of attention to the numbers on the screen.

If I do have one criticism of the V3i, it is that the readout for depth is never accurate. In my experience, targets are always deeper than the number on the screen. A target that reads 7 inches is usually closer to 9 inches deep. Typical of White's. Under promise and over deliver! From a marketing point of view I would think that they should re-calibrate all of their detectors to read DEEPER than the target actually is. Everyone seems to believe what they read on the display. If a quarter was buried 3 inches down and the display read 10, I think most would believe it was buried 10 inches deep.

 

[Rob (IL)]

Again the real problem is the overload condition.

 

[Calnevaroy]

If it doesn't overload with your other coils you have a bad coil. Without changing settings put on another coil. If it doesn't overload call Whites.

Make sure you say it happens with the 5.3 but is good with the other 2 coils.

Thanks Rob. I'll try my other coils and see if I get an overload signal with them. I'll get back with results as soon as possible........Roy

 

[Calnevaroy]

Again the real problem is the overload condition.

Rob, I tested both my D2 and 950 coils for overload over multiple coins near the surface of the ground. The 950 would overload with three quarters and the D2 with 4 quarters. The coil would be about an inch or so away but not touching the coins. Also, I tried the non "V" rated 5.3 and it overloaded the same as my "V" rated 5.3 coil. I called White's repair and discussed these results with Mary Hudson. She didn't seem to think the overload was a problem but focused upon the depth reading inaccuracy. She's having a new 5.3 coil sent in exchange for my 5.3 coil. I suggested I should compare both coils before sending either one back and she agreed. Still, somehow, I don't feel comfortable with the overload with any of my coils, especially the 5.3 over just a quarter and penny. But Mary did say something that may justify these overload signals in that the V3i is an extremely sensitive unit.

 

[Rob (IL)]

You said,"With the Sensitivity Probe my signal was 34.2%". Well when the signal% gets to 60% the V3I and Vx3 will overload. This is stated in the manual.

Now you said, "The 950 would overload with three quarters and the D2 with 4 quarters." If you check you will see the Signal% should be the least on your D2. It just has more headroom than the others.

None of these conditions affect the performance of the detector. How deep will your detector find a dime? Check and see. If I was hunting and ran over 4 quarters on the surface I would just pick them up and put them in my pocket. If you can get a better G/B or a better frequency offset setting or anything that can make your detector run quieter my signal% will decrease and overload will decrease. Make sure you are doing them correctly. Read the G/B post in my links at the top of the forum.

As far as the depth issue, the detector doesn't know how deep the coin is located. It just knows how strong a signal it is receiving. All I care is it deep or shallow. You should see what you have to tell depth with on my Minelab, no numbers at all.

 

[burlbark]

If I was worried about depth numbers I would not metal detect.

I understand the science behind estimating depth on known values and size of object it is not fool proof at all. It can help to determine very little at this time.

I have found a seated dime on the surface in undisturbed ground. I have found a standing liberty quarter at 2" above ground in a gopher mound.
A silver pocket watch that overloaded my detector at 2"-3" or less.

I would have passed up some of my nicest targets had I ignored surface targets or put any merit into only the deep ones are worth digging.

 

[Larry (IL)]

I have to agree with you burlbark, the depth indicator is OK to look at but I don't rely on it. The pitch and volume of the pinpoint VCO gives me far more information and I don't even have to look at the screen, I just know by the sound if it is a surface target, a real deep one or anywhere in between.

White's depth indicator is far better than some other brands I use... one can be off by 3 or 4 inches and another one doesn't even have a meter.

 

[Calnevaroy]

You said,"With the Sensitivity Probe my signal was 34.2%". Well when the signal% gets to 60% the V3I and Vx3 will overload. This is stated in the manual.

Now you said, "The 950 would overload with three quarters and the D2 with 4 quarters." If you check you will see the Signal% should be the least on your D2. It just has more headroom than the others.

None of these conditions affect the performance of the detector. How deep will your detector find a dime? Check and see. If I was hunting and ran over 4 quarters on the surface I would just pick them up and put them in my pocket. If you can get a better G/B or a better frequency offset setting or anything that can make your detector run quieter my signal% will decrease and overload will decrease. Make sure you are doing them correctly. Read the G/B post in my links at the top of the forum.

As far as the depth issue, the detector doesn't know how deep the coin is located. It just knows how strong a signal it is receiving. All I care is it deep or shallow. You should see what you have to tell depth with on my Minelab, no numbers at all.

I followed your instructions regarding ground balancing and found little or no difference ground balancing with each filter. I do have a +1 offset so I don't expect perfect balance as my ground should read very slightly positive in the All Metal pinpoint mode. The Signal% was the same for both the 5.3 and 950 coil at 14.5%. The D2 was considerably lower at 6.9%. In testing the 5.3 over a 7" clad dime I increased Rx Gain to 12 with Discriminate sensitivity at 80. Any higher and it'd introduce instability from electrical or other interfering sources. Still, with the Rx Gain at 12 the hit with the 5.3 was mostly one way and iffy at best. With the 950 and D2 I have no problem hitting the same dime with much lower sensitivities. However, I've dug solid sounding 6" (actual depth) square tabs with the 5.3 in the field and have confidence it'd hit somewhat deeper. In using White's top of the line detectors for quite a few years I've always experienced the depth reading to be fairly accurate until using the 5.3 on the V3i. It's no big deal, I just wondered if I had a defective coil or not. I'll report back after receiving the new 5.3 and comparing them.