Depth question...

[jbow]

Since I planted a practice garden yesterday I have found that my GT will not ID a clad quarter or a clad dime both on their side at 6"...

Forget even hitting either at 12". With the quarter at 6" I can get the ID up to about 160 with the 10" coil, not on the dime though. With the S-12 coil it's even worse. I think something must be wrong with it. I have not yet tried the S-5 coil on any of the targets.

So far the only thing that hits strong are targets just under the surface. I can tell a difference between just under the soil and 3" deep. I really am surprised by this and am going to work with it some more after I cut the grass and the rest of the week.

I can get a peep from the 12" deep quarter with the 10" coil in AM but nothing that would make me dig... nothing in disc...

Dissappointed... any ideas, things I can try? Should a GT hit a quarter at 12" or ID either a dime or a quarter at 6"??

Thanks for any help.

Julien

 

[Art (NWOH)]

The old fresh buried coin problem........
Most detectors blow the socks off the Sov on fresh stuff.
You have a column of dirt above the coin that will not match the surrounding dirt in moisture content or density. This throws the Sov off in it's analysis of the ground and metal objects. There is also no coin halo.

I have some pennies buried in the back yard at 2" amid a lot of iron trash.......no hits.
Some buried in cleaner area at 6-8".......no hits.

Dug one in a clean spot at 11" with perfect ID . ......Under several inches of clay subsoil fill dirt. Was a 1979 penny. Must have been lost the year they built my house.

Best fresh buried coin I have had was a dime at 8" (GT, T-10 coil). Was too easy so re-buried to 10". Just a null with the GT, but was diggable hit with my 2a. Most fresh burieds you will be lucky to get more than a rotten foil hit at 6".

You should expect about 10" on a dime and 11-12" (max sensitivity) on a quarter with disc mode air test with either the T-10 or S-12. About the same with pinpoint. Only about half that in track or lock.......detector can't balance in air.

HH

 

[jbow]

1: I don't have a problem and..

2: I wasted half a day burying stuff...

I guess that is the proverbial "good news and bad news".

Thanks I feel better. I was beginning to think that in order to get depth I was going to have to run in AM, check every hit in disc and dig everything iffy.

I will do some "real world" depth testing.

Julien


THANKS!!!!

 

[Art (NWOH)]

Did you try the air test I suggested? It's not conclusive, but helps determine if the detector and coil are working about right in a "no dirt" environment.

Most extreme fresh buried test I did....

Edge of a cornfield. Clay dirt with a lot of air in it. Dry crust on top. More moisture with depth.
Buried a coin to around 6-7" and stomped the dirt back in the hole.
Very bad trash hit. Could only raise the coil 2-3" without losing it.
Tried a/m for kicks and could raise the coil nearly a foot. Verified I was not picking up metal in my boots by stepping back and reaching foreward. Dug up the coin and checked the hole and dirt pile......no response.
Super difference between a/m and disc mode right?
In well compacted dirt in the same general area, disc goes deeper than a/m by a little.

Be careful setting up tests. You can "fix" the test by accident or on purpose to "prove" that one detector or mode is better than another.

HH

 

[jbow]

I will definately be doing it though. I REALLY appreciate all your help. I have learned a lot here and from you in particular. I'll do the test tomorrow. I should have my Tejon tomorrow too. I am not abandoning my GT though...

Thanks,

Julien

 

[Art (NWOH)]

n/t

 

[Rick(ND)]

Just got off work and reading your posts Art and have to agree with you on the pre burried coins. Depth is not good at all, but in actual hunting it is awesome the depth it can get. To get depth you have to first know your Sovereign well and have some experienced with it too. You have to know those tones changes and how to wiggle the coil to get the tones to start climbing, but first you have to go very slow so the Sovereign has time to see those real deep targets. Some go too fast and the Sovereign don't have time to see the deep ones.
Like I have told many to get out to use the Sovereign and the more you use it the more you will understand it, the better you will get and the deeper you will be digging. It all takes time and patience and soon you will be impressing your hunting partners as much as you will impress yourself with the depth and ID of the Sovereign.

 

[Art (NWOH)]

This is one of those times that I feel bad that I don't live closer to someone who is having a problem.
Would like to watch Julien set up, hunt, and check out targets.
Get the impression that he is doing things that are counter-productive.
Perhaps too much speed, rod too long.........poor coil control and excess speed.
Too much sensitivity, or less effective operating mode for conditions.
Some or all of the above. Just not there to be able to see it.

Old habits left over from swinging other detectors do not work well with a Sov. You have to start from scratch and feel it out.

Gets so easy that you don't have to think about what you are doing.

HH

 

[MonDak]

I to am just starting the learning curve on an xs2apro w/550 meter and 8 in coil. Last week found an indian head and 3 wheats, all no more than 3 in deep. Next week will go over the same site with a 10 inch coil to see what kind of diff it makes.

 

[jbow]

Thanks Art...

The GT is my first detector since I had a toy as a kid so no bad habits. I usually find my share. Shaft is not long, I keep the coil flat and on or very close to the ground and swing slow. I had a lot of trouble on that last site using the S-12 coil and then with the buried coins. The buried coins made me think that I was missing a lot of other stuff until you guys explained it. That together with the experience on the site full of roots and stuff gave me a lot of questions. I'm getting it worked out though thanks to you guys. It really isn't as bad as it seems.
I really appreciate your help, without it I would surely go off the rails...

Thanks,
Julien

 

[Rick(ND)]

"Old habits left over from swinging other detectors do not work well with a Sov. You have to start from scratch and feel it out.

Gets so easy that you don't have to think about what you are doing."

Just like when you tried to learn to ride a bike, it may be a little tough to begin with, but once you do it come natural. It took me a while with the Sovereign with all the tones and nulling.I was having second thoughts which I am sure 80-90% of us did the first couple times we used ours, but now it is so easy to use and so accurate, but I feel it is what we have learned just by using it.
One of the many things we have learned is that air test sucks, speed will kill depth on the Sovereign and this detector is a bit heavy.Now we don't use air test or test garden that are freshly buried coins to see how deep a coin will be picked up.We use actual in the ground target to see how deep we can go plus we learned to go slower if you are in a area you want to go deeper and many have hip mounted their Sovereign or had custom shaft made to make them balance better and feel lighter.
I feel like you Art that is would be nice to be able to see how a person has their Sovereign set up, how fast they swing the coil, how they do the Sovereign wiggle (seen a couple that wiggled the coil a little, then stopped to see what it reads on the meter instead of just wiggle over just the target and try to keep the tone as steady as possible to get the correct ID).
Just like I tell many to get the basic and get out to use the Sovereign and start learning as the more you use it, the more you will learn and the more this detector will impress you, plus the easier to use until it come natural.
Ever notice those that have learned the Sovereign well and sell them to get a different detector always seem to come back to the Sovereigns again?? I wonder if George F has a Sovereign back again yet as he got a XT70 a few weeks ago and sold his Sovereign, but I have a good feeling he has or will have a Sovereign back again.
I wish I was born rich instead of handsome,( I guess I got neither as I am broke and nothing to look at) then I could travel and help all these people that have a problem plus find so much more.We just have to do the best we can on the forums and why they are here for us all to learn from experiences of others.

Rick

 

[Art (NWOH)]

you will do fine once you get the feel of it.
HH

 

[Art (NWOH)]

George should be getting pretty desperate again pretty soon.
HH

 

[Rick(ND)]

That is one thing that helped me was going to a site that wasn't real trashy like some tough areas are, these are no place to learn the Sovereign. I had been out with it for a few weeks to some of the tougher spots, then went camping at a very old park we had detected to death with other detectors, but surprising not a lot of trash at. With in a few hours it was like a switch come on as everything made sense and I was picking up old coins where ever i went in that park. The reason I feel is I was not hearing 6 or 7 tone changes on every swing of the coil so I could learn the tones of a good target. I then went back to one of the most worked out parks around with more trash and picked out a seated dime within a hour as it was easy now to tell the good from the bad as it started to come natural now. I also learned that any weak positive repeatable signal trying to climb, but cant quite make it is one I want to dig too.
Best not to start out in a tough spot and maybe one just with new coins that are not real deep to get to understand the Sovereign a bit. I use to recommend higher sensitivity to begin with, but now I recommend auto to help a person learn the tones first and not so much nulling.

Rick

 

[Art (NWOH)]

Those should have knocked your ears off.

You might notice that the 10" coil will not have the tone "character" of the 8".

Good start. Gets better.

HH

 

[Rick(ND)]

The 10 inch coil may not do as well as the 8 inch coil we have seen for depth. It can not separate the targets as well and mask some of the good targets too.
One of my all time favorite coils is the older Coinsearch coils that are 8 inch and we have seen where this coil will get coins deeper and a better response than the 10 inch BBS coil only because it sees less and can see past trash the 10inch could not.
You have a good start that will give you some confidence with the Sovereign, now you just got to dig deeper targets by maybe going slower and listening closer, but by all means have fun with this detector.

Rick

 

[MonDak]

Really have appreciated all info you and Art have provided. I guess the reason I thought I'd try the 10 inch, is the site is old and pretty much trash free. After about 3 hrs I had only dug a half dozen pull tabs and the mach nulled out the nails and other ferrous items.

Hope to be in your neck of the woods later this summer Rick, and will sure try to stop in and see you.

 

[berkeley bottle boy]

[quote Rick(ND)]That is one thing that helped me was going to a site that wasn't real trashy like some tough areas are, these are no place to learn the Sovereign.[/quote]

Amen to that. Zoop zip _null_ zoop zit _null_ Ziip. You can conquer a trashy park eventually but starting there is like trying to read out of a phrase book in a crowded german beer hall or packed asian fish market; too much din to let you focus!

 

[jbow]

You said:

"I also learned that any weak positive repeatable signal trying to climb, but cant quite make it is one I want to dig too."

This is what I have learned this week and I think it is going to make a real difference for me. So far I have been finding all the shallow targets but I am going to find older and deeper stuff now.

Your idea about learning in a non-trashy site is a good one and I know a couple of those places.

Thanks,

Julien

 

[jbow]

n/t