Ralph Bryant
New member
I received an interesting private message in my inbox this morning that I wanted to share here on the forum, along with my response;
-------------------------------------------------------
XXXXX Wrote:
> I just have to say that it is a shame when people
> like yourself mislead or atleast try to mislead
> others into buying in to the "HYPE" of a new
> detector. Please do not think everybody believes
> that you find rings every time you go out...give
> me a break. Most of the guys who are finding rings
> are water hunters, and they dont even find rings
> every time.
> And as far as the notching that you claim to be
> able to do on your machine, everybody knows that
> when you notch out pulltabs, you notch out some
> gold. That is the way it is, even on the best of
> machines, and the Ace 250 is certainly not one of
> them. I am sure it is a good machine for the
> money, but if it is as great as all you people who
> are making all these fantastic claims it is, then
> everyone who has paid anymore than $200 should
> feel ripped off. And if it such a great machine,
> why are there so many for sale on Ebay? I just
> talked to one of the major dealers today that
> dropped the Garrett line because they are not
> selling. The only one that was selling was the 250
> and that was because it was being hyped so much.
> Its obvious that you have vested interest in this
> product. Heck, you even have two of them, why? The
> 150 doesnt even pinpoint, who has that kind of
> money to blow these days, unless your getting it
> at dealer cost,,,,,,
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------
And my response:
Well XXXXX,
I will try respond to your concerns in a more "civil" manner.
First of all, I am not a dealer for any brand or manufacturer. I have no "vested interest" in any make, model, or dealership whatsoever. I have simply been enjoying this hobby since 1968, and am in the financial position to try, test, own, or use any (or as many) detectors as I so choose. I don't go out of my way to "mislead others" in any way whatsoever, but share my experiences as I have experienced these machines myself. I understand the internal workings of metal detectors from years of study and research, conversing with the designers themselves on many, many occasions to help build that understanding. Any comments you see coming from me go far beyond the "on and off" switch, and delve into internal circuitry and design involvement in addition to comparisons with other machines on the market, whether currently or in years past.
I will be the first to say there is no "best machine" out there for every possible usage. There may be "best" machines as far as dollar value for features and performance involved, and if I have an opinion about those, I have no problem giving credit where credit is due, whether I am "getting paid" for it or not.
To date, I have IN FACT found at least one ring each time out with the Ace 150 or 250 units. There is not alot of detecting competition in my immediate area, so this is no big surprise. Those who do hunt this area obviously use far more discrimination than necessary to find lower conductivity rings, or I wouldn't be finding those that I do. Keep in mind too that there is a balance of gold, silver, and junk rings that have to be expected. If all I were finding were precious metal rings, I might understand your concern. But go back and look at that "balance". There are alot of junk rings in the mix, nothing at all unusual or "suspect" as you infer. Finding rings is a matter of understanding where to look. They are not "only" lost in water environments.
I'm not sure I understand your comment about notching out pulltabs and it's relation to finding rings. Pull-tab range covers only a narrow segment of rings, not nearly "all" rings by any means. Most smaller women's rings fall into the nickel and foil segments much more often than they do in the tab segment. And unless I am hunting primarily for "coin-count", I tend to hunt in the jewelry mode more often than not. That includes "open" pull-tab segments. Almost all of the rings I have found to date have fallen into the foil to nickel ranges as I have mentioned in my posts. Understanding the relationship of the relative or "effective" conductivity chart will give you a better idea of what I am talking about here.
I am really not too concerned about what you may or may not think of the Ace 250, whether it is a good machine or not. I base my comments and opinion of this machine on 38 years of experience, not magazine articles or advertising slicks, but "actual use". Simple as that. And whether anyone who pays more for similar performance or features feels "ripped off", well that is purely subjective on their part. Personally, if I can get 90% of the performance of a $1000 or more machine for $200, I'm more than happy with the obvious value involved. I own other machines than just the Garretts, including the Shadow X-5 and Nautilus DMC-IIb, two machines that are generally considered two of the best "non-metered" machines out there. Any use I have for TID-type detectors is restricted primarily to jewelry hunting, and I have been at this game long enough to know which ID-type detectors are "hype" and which ones offer good performance for the money. I use the Ace models (the 250 belongs to me, the 150 to my wife) because they offer what I need in an ID machine for my purposes coupled with the 4.5 Sniper coils. The majority of my hunting is in very trashy conditions where more jewelry is likely to be found, a very simple concept.
The reason that so many Aces are for sale on eBay is probably because there are several Garrett dealers who place alot of NEW UNITS there for sale. There are no more USED units listed on eBay than what you would normally expect of a mass-produced detector model, which the Aces are. In fact, they are reportedly the NUMBER ONE selling detector for Garrett in many, many years, and rightly so in my personal opinion. But if you will go back into eBay and make note of the number of USED DFX models in comparison to USED Ace models, I think you will find many more DFX models have been listed on a regular basis than Aces. But as I said, most of what you are seeing on eBay are NEW Ace models, not sales by dissatisfied retail buyers.
I don't know who your "major dealer" would happen to be, but I can assure you, the detector market in general is and has been in a major slump recently. Garrett machines are not the only ones affected.
And what does "doesn't even pinpoint" have to do with which detector I use ? I rarely use a pinpoint mode when using smaller coils, because it is simply not needed. The largest coil I regularly keep attached to any of my several machines is all of 6 inches in diameter. A pinpoint mode with small coils is a moot (and wasted) option.
So, if your only intention is to send me a personal note to call me a "liar" or a "promoter" or a "hypster", I guess you are entitled to your opinion, but your "opinion" does not change fact or reality. If you aren't interested in my opinion, I would suggest you simply scroll on past my posts and just read the ones that you agree with. Not exactly the sign of an "open mind", but then again, that is just MY opinion.
Have a good day, and good luck out there hunting.
Ralph Bryant
-------------------------------------------------------
XXXXX Wrote:
> I just have to say that it is a shame when people
> like yourself mislead or atleast try to mislead
> others into buying in to the "HYPE" of a new
> detector. Please do not think everybody believes
> that you find rings every time you go out...give
> me a break. Most of the guys who are finding rings
> are water hunters, and they dont even find rings
> every time.
> And as far as the notching that you claim to be
> able to do on your machine, everybody knows that
> when you notch out pulltabs, you notch out some
> gold. That is the way it is, even on the best of
> machines, and the Ace 250 is certainly not one of
> them. I am sure it is a good machine for the
> money, but if it is as great as all you people who
> are making all these fantastic claims it is, then
> everyone who has paid anymore than $200 should
> feel ripped off. And if it such a great machine,
> why are there so many for sale on Ebay? I just
> talked to one of the major dealers today that
> dropped the Garrett line because they are not
> selling. The only one that was selling was the 250
> and that was because it was being hyped so much.
> Its obvious that you have vested interest in this
> product. Heck, you even have two of them, why? The
> 150 doesnt even pinpoint, who has that kind of
> money to blow these days, unless your getting it
> at dealer cost,,,,,,
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------
And my response:
Well XXXXX,
I will try respond to your concerns in a more "civil" manner.
First of all, I am not a dealer for any brand or manufacturer. I have no "vested interest" in any make, model, or dealership whatsoever. I have simply been enjoying this hobby since 1968, and am in the financial position to try, test, own, or use any (or as many) detectors as I so choose. I don't go out of my way to "mislead others" in any way whatsoever, but share my experiences as I have experienced these machines myself. I understand the internal workings of metal detectors from years of study and research, conversing with the designers themselves on many, many occasions to help build that understanding. Any comments you see coming from me go far beyond the "on and off" switch, and delve into internal circuitry and design involvement in addition to comparisons with other machines on the market, whether currently or in years past.
I will be the first to say there is no "best machine" out there for every possible usage. There may be "best" machines as far as dollar value for features and performance involved, and if I have an opinion about those, I have no problem giving credit where credit is due, whether I am "getting paid" for it or not.
To date, I have IN FACT found at least one ring each time out with the Ace 150 or 250 units. There is not alot of detecting competition in my immediate area, so this is no big surprise. Those who do hunt this area obviously use far more discrimination than necessary to find lower conductivity rings, or I wouldn't be finding those that I do. Keep in mind too that there is a balance of gold, silver, and junk rings that have to be expected. If all I were finding were precious metal rings, I might understand your concern. But go back and look at that "balance". There are alot of junk rings in the mix, nothing at all unusual or "suspect" as you infer. Finding rings is a matter of understanding where to look. They are not "only" lost in water environments.
I'm not sure I understand your comment about notching out pulltabs and it's relation to finding rings. Pull-tab range covers only a narrow segment of rings, not nearly "all" rings by any means. Most smaller women's rings fall into the nickel and foil segments much more often than they do in the tab segment. And unless I am hunting primarily for "coin-count", I tend to hunt in the jewelry mode more often than not. That includes "open" pull-tab segments. Almost all of the rings I have found to date have fallen into the foil to nickel ranges as I have mentioned in my posts. Understanding the relationship of the relative or "effective" conductivity chart will give you a better idea of what I am talking about here.
I am really not too concerned about what you may or may not think of the Ace 250, whether it is a good machine or not. I base my comments and opinion of this machine on 38 years of experience, not magazine articles or advertising slicks, but "actual use". Simple as that. And whether anyone who pays more for similar performance or features feels "ripped off", well that is purely subjective on their part. Personally, if I can get 90% of the performance of a $1000 or more machine for $200, I'm more than happy with the obvious value involved. I own other machines than just the Garretts, including the Shadow X-5 and Nautilus DMC-IIb, two machines that are generally considered two of the best "non-metered" machines out there. Any use I have for TID-type detectors is restricted primarily to jewelry hunting, and I have been at this game long enough to know which ID-type detectors are "hype" and which ones offer good performance for the money. I use the Ace models (the 250 belongs to me, the 150 to my wife) because they offer what I need in an ID machine for my purposes coupled with the 4.5 Sniper coils. The majority of my hunting is in very trashy conditions where more jewelry is likely to be found, a very simple concept.
The reason that so many Aces are for sale on eBay is probably because there are several Garrett dealers who place alot of NEW UNITS there for sale. There are no more USED units listed on eBay than what you would normally expect of a mass-produced detector model, which the Aces are. In fact, they are reportedly the NUMBER ONE selling detector for Garrett in many, many years, and rightly so in my personal opinion. But if you will go back into eBay and make note of the number of USED DFX models in comparison to USED Ace models, I think you will find many more DFX models have been listed on a regular basis than Aces. But as I said, most of what you are seeing on eBay are NEW Ace models, not sales by dissatisfied retail buyers.
I don't know who your "major dealer" would happen to be, but I can assure you, the detector market in general is and has been in a major slump recently. Garrett machines are not the only ones affected.
And what does "doesn't even pinpoint" have to do with which detector I use ? I rarely use a pinpoint mode when using smaller coils, because it is simply not needed. The largest coil I regularly keep attached to any of my several machines is all of 6 inches in diameter. A pinpoint mode with small coils is a moot (and wasted) option.
So, if your only intention is to send me a personal note to call me a "liar" or a "promoter" or a "hypster", I guess you are entitled to your opinion, but your "opinion" does not change fact or reality. If you aren't interested in my opinion, I would suggest you simply scroll on past my posts and just read the ones that you agree with. Not exactly the sign of an "open mind", but then again, that is just MY opinion.
Have a good day, and good luck out there hunting.
Ralph Bryant
Congratulation Mr. Ralph Bryant.What a Gentlemen you are.
Good and honest people trying to have some pure and natural fun with this super hobby of ours.
Keep up the good work and word Mr. Bryant cause you are an inspiration for alot of newbies like me.
