Just luv these debates as long as we don't takes them personally and actually some great posts originated in this thread which are all logical and feel Streak hit the nail on the head as detectors are just getting stronger which lead to give and take aways..I hunt in parks where the less digging the better so I spend some time isolating a target rather than excessive digging and can see some of the fellows do not so its basically a beep and dig situation in isolated areas where excessive digging is not a problem and most situations shovels are carried so retrieval is easy.Lighten up guys and gals as we are all learning or at least getting different opinions...