CZ21 test, compare with EZ

[OldBeechnut]

Got out a week ago in the cold with EZ, Bob..and Synthnut, Jim and did some field/beach tests/comparing/learning. On the CZ21, Excalibur with a Amp, and the strong little AT Pro. I was extremely interested in the Cz since I use it mainly in the Bay here in Maryland. I have been digging mids and jumping Hi/mid tones only but now have a different perspective of deep gold from the test. Over all it was a great learning experience, and I hope to do it again this fall with a few more hunters. Thanks Bob and Jim for making the trip far south to jersey.

I do have a few questions for the CZ lovers, First, has anyone ever cracked open the CZ to work on it..? Tune, adjusting...since it seems some are hotter then others there would have to be tuning involved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3rfGB7SU6Y

 

[EZrider]

Joe, I remember reading a post where somone opened up a CZ20 to replace the Disc pot. He also took pictures. For the life of me i can't find the post. Going back through the old post as well as talking to some local Gurus. CZs are just deep machines in the right hands. Everyone i have talked to who run diffrent CZs " 20/21-3d-6a-70" and have been using them for a long time have all said the same.

I dont think it is simple as opening one up and adjusting a trim pot. I could be wrong but ive searched over the last few weeks and come up with nothing. I think alot of the performance of a CZ is in how it is run by the user. For somone new,outside of the manual there is only fourms like this to get info from. No elaborate books to read or heavy mods to do.

Also understand not many if anyone does the kind of testing we do. It's one thing to air test or guess what kind of depth a machine gets. But when you do measured depth along with multiple machines runs by diffrent users. Things get interesting.

 

[Dan-Pa.]

I understand its a combination of procedures that are quite technical to properly tune a CZ and even if you had a schematic in hand a knowlegable tech could only perform..Also the parts come into play and of course there are fellows that swing a CZ and the again fellows that effectively learn their unit and understand and swing it effectively.

If testing units especially two CZ's for gosh sakes turn off the other units while testing as I know from personal experience two CZ guys hunting together are robbing each other of depth and stability and if a fellow is a football field away hunting with a CZ I know it so even at distances two CZ's affect each other.

 

[Kieth-Tx]

Agree Dan. Me and a buddy were water hunting Friday....both using CZ-20's. We could not get within 100' of each other without the machines talking to each other.

 

[EZrider]

Trust me. Our machines were off during the test. It may not show in the video buy we were always asking each other making sure.

 

[OldBeechnut]

Thanks Ez for the link on the break down. It's perfect .I will keep you informed..Good Luck if you guys get out this weekend. Yes, all machines were off, it's all on the cut/edited video...Plus I have found that the CZ does have to be very close to interfer with the excalibur from a experance this past summer...now the ATPro is different, Jim had left his on when we first started and I could hear the rattle snake falsing.
EZ, If you do some video this weekend, on each target slowly inch the coil toward it to see when it picks it up, reason to see if you can determine the shape of the coils field on targets at different depth. And I'll be looking forward to seeing and hearing as you adjust settings. Something I have to do on my video's, that I learned from you.

Dan-pa
.I understand its a combination of procedures that are quite technical to properly tune a CZ and even if you had a schematic in hand a knowlegable tech could only perform..

Thanks Dan, I will go slow on this being the first time....maybe just a inspection, pictures then back together...then study the pictures.

 

[synthnut]

OBN,
I will be bringing a couple of other machines to the beach test this weekend ......They will be the Soveriegn GT , and the CZ6a ....... The Sovereign has a 10 inch Tornado coil on it , and the CZ has an 8 inch coil on it .....I have a 10 1/2 inch coil coming and hope to have it by this weekend ..... I will be making changes on BOTH machines, and will narate exactly what is going on , this way everyone will know exactly what is hapenning .....I too liked the fact that EZ spoke of his detector changes as he went along ..... Looking back on the video's , I'm sorry that I was not more outspoken ..... It must come from me being so shy !!! ... ......Jim

 

[scubadetector]

I opened not one but TWO CZ-20. Couldn't get either of them to work after I did and had to send them both in. I ALSO have been a compuer and laptop tech for 19 years. Not saying you can't do it but be super careful. Also you can't buy the gaskets that seal them and I also had a friend that has one which he can't get to work now.


I really wish you luck but I just wanted to share my experience.

 

[EZrider]

I think that without a Oscope to calibrate them, and the know how. There isn't much hope for tuning internally .

 

[synthnut]

Looks like we're gonna have to put in a call to First Texas and talk to " Lupe" ........LOL !!....Jim

 

[therover]

Don't do it Joe !

 

[Dan-Pa.]

Keep in mind this is on a wet saltsand beach enviroment so don't expect the same on land and honestly digging 10-12 inches in my ground is deep enough for me.

CZ's are a little hotter on silver coins than gold rings so bring your back hoe if your after old silver.

Don't be confused at the high tone for on a gold ring for those not familiar with CZ's if you were using a land metered CZ it would be hitting nickle and tonal responces differ from most other units when it comes to the gold ring range.

Even if you knew how to take apart and boost the depth one wonders how you would keep it water tight after you put together.

Nice job guys and it did look cold so thanks for your efforts. Have hunted N.J. beaches in the winter so know the feeling.

Last but not least Synthnut cracked me up with have to ask Lupe and thanks for the laugh in a cold gloomy cabin fever day in N.E. Pa...

 

[EZrider]

I really like where the gold range is on the CZ compared to my ETrac. The same 1 gram 14k ring that hits as foil on my Etrac. Hits as a square tab on my CZ. Also the ETrac puts beaver tails and square tabs as the same. CZ does not. There are times " most of the time" where i hunt. running anything less than Disc 2 is unrealistic. From water line to towel line. The last thing i want to do is dig light targets.

Beaches where we did the test. I ran more of a open Disc. Out of lack of targets i would have dug anything to stay warm

 

[OldBeechnut]

Keep in mind this is on a wet saltsand beach enviroment so don't expect the same on land and honestly digging 10-12 inches in my ground is deep enough for me.
CZ's are a little hotter on silver coins than gold rings so bring your back hoe if your after old silver.
Don't be confused at the high tone for on a gold ring for those not familiar with CZ's if you were using a land metered CZ it would be hitting nickle and tonal responces differ from most other units when it comes to the gold ring range.
Even if you knew how to take apart and boost the depth one wonders how you would keep it water tight after you put together.
Nice job guys and it did look cold so thanks for your efforts. Have hunted N.J. beaches in the winter so know the feeling.
Last but not least Synthnut cracked me up with have to ask Lupe and thanks for the laugh in a cold gloomy cabin fever day in N.E. Pa...

Thanks Dan, I've been a lurker here for several years....And value yours, bob, tvr, scuba, therovers, and all the others that post......... wisdom. That's why I enjoy the compares, not to get a winner but to learn about, I feel the excal covers some places I hunt, but I know and have experienced places I much prefer the little CZ20 8 inch. So know your competitions abilities and your own in the field, plays a role in ones hunting strategy.
cabin fever..I'll send you a PM...

 

[tvr]

Another informative video. When I heard "solid low tone" with the CZ, on deep gold, I could feel my heart up in my throat thinking about all the solid low tones I did not examine further ... but then again, I have dug a lot of those and have come to feel fairly confident they were iron. Wondering if anyone else has other clues as to differentiating potential GOOD deep low tones versus deep iron?

Sweep speed ... looked like the Ecal was moving over the target a little quicker than the others. Not entirely sure what to make of that. I'm still fairly green with the Excal, but I know the CZ does better when not rushed.
Thanks for posting the video!
tvr

 

[therover]

TVR,


In all the years I have used my CZ's, I have never found a foolproof way to determine if a deep, fringe target giving off a low tone is iron or a good deep target without digging. One way to try to get some more info is to pin point and see if the target footprint is small or wide, or even if it goes away.

One good thing about the beach is, you can take a nice scoop of sand out of the way and get the coil into the hole to get closer to the target. That way, a more positive ID may be heard.

Deep on the fringe targets in the wet sand that repeat as low tone CAN be gold. Shoot, I dug a small 14K gold ring with a small diamond in it, in the wet sand with my DFX and it was only 5 inches down and gave off mostly low tone, negative ID numbers but there was a touch of mid tone positive number ID every 4th or 5th swing so I decided to dig knowing small gold can and will ID as iron in the wet sand and glad I did.

 

[OldBeechnut]

TVR, This excal I get a better responce if I swing a little faster, but only in the PP mode...(Some will dispute this). In discriminate you have to go about half that speed to obtain and even then may have to clear some sand away to get a tone.. What puzzled me was it had no problem at 14 on the lg gold, At 15 inchs there was only a disruption in the threshold. So does the detection field end that abruptly.

When I heard "solid low tone" with the CZ I could feel my heart up in my throat thinking about all the solid low tones I did not examine further

Bob also noted the differene in a shallow low and a deep low tone, something that will help on those lack of targets beach's in the bay. I had bought a Infinium and a Dual Field for these places where Bob Trivillian use to hunt, but now I wondering if the CZ20 10 inch I bought from therover will be the best for these locations.

 

[EZrider]

TVR,


In all the years I have used my CZ's, I have never found a foolproof way to determine if a deep, fringe target giving off a low tone is iron or a good deep target without digging. One way to try to get some more info is to pin point and see if the target footprint is small or wide, or even if it goes away.

Super advice from a CZ pro here. During the test i couldn't pinpoint the target. Great ways of knowing deep targets.

One good thing about the beach is, you can take a nice scoop of sand out of the way and get the coil into the hole to get closer to the target. That way, a more positive ID may be heard.

Super often overlooked technique/b]


Deep on the fringe targets in the wet sand that repeat as low tone CAN be gold. Shoot, I dug a small 14K gold ring with a small diamond in it, in the wet sand with my DFX and it was only 5 inches down and gave off mostly low tone, negative ID numbers but there was a touch of mid tone positive number ID every 4th or 5th swing so I decided to dig knowing small gold can and will ID as iron in the wet sand and glad I did.

The great thing is. Were not using PI machines. The fact we can get great depth and still have Disc is huge for me. Were not forced to go into deeper water with less trash

 

[EZrider]

TVR, This excal I get a better responce if I swing a little faster, but only in the PP mode...(Some will dispute this). In discriminate you have to go about half that speed to obtain and even then may have to clear some sand away to get a tone.. What puzzled me was it had no problem at 14 on the lg gold, At 15 inchs there was only a disruption in the threshold. So does the detection field end that abruptly.

When I heard "solid low tone" with the CZ I could feel my heart up in my throat thinking about all the solid low tones I did not examine further

Bob also noted the differene in a shallow low and a deep low tone, something that will help on those lack of targets beach's in the bay. I had bought a Infinium and a Dual Field for these places where Bob Trivillian use to hunt, but now I wondering if the CZ20 10 inch I bought from therover will be the best for these locations.

OBN, The DD vs Concentric coils is why. The DD field at the bottom is more square. The Concentric is more cone shape and rounded at the bottom.

 

[therover]

"Were not forced to go into deeper water with less trash"

I would say 90% of my beach hunting is in the wet sand and suds. I hardly ever go into the water, and when I do, it's not for long. I envy the guys who hunt in S.C, and Fla. Seems whenever I see videos on them hunting, the water looks like a pond. Seems whether it's high tide or low tide, the water never really gets rough.

Here in NJ that's not the case for the most part. There is always white water and the good ole 2 to 3 waves in the set that can make for a fun waiting out period. Not to mention beaches that have a 4-5 foot drop off after going 3 feet into the water. And when hunting conditions get good with a storm, you can't go into the water unless you want to drown. So having a good discriminating beach unit is a must.

Plus, there are a lot of times where the targets are high and mixed in with the trash so there is no way a hunter can use a PI unit there.

I am heading out in a bit to hit a spot where we found a lot of targets higher up. There were a lot of nickels in these areas mixed in with iron, but we did not find any gold. I am going to try a little experiment and leave the big dogs home and go down with my Gold Bug SE for some easy swinging and see if it can sniff out a gold target. Bringing the DFX with a small coil and will run that in 15Khz mode too. Ya never know.