CZ-5 and Cibola comparison

[GT]

Hi folks I'm new to this Forum and hail from Washington state,

I'd like to get some opinions from some seasoned experts. I recently purchased a Cibola and I'm very happy with it. It is a deep machine and discriminates well in trash (especially iron.) I have an opportunity to purchase a CZ-5 which I've heard is also a very nice machine.

Could anyone comment on whether I would gain any additional "finding power" with the CZ-5 that I don't already have with the Cibola?

I've read one comment at Metal Detector Reviews form Jerry in TX that the Cibola goes deeper than the CZ-5? Is this the experience of others? Any comments would be appreciated.

(Note: I will be posting this same question on the Tesoro forum as well)

Thanks,
Gus(WA)

 

[GT]

Very interesting, nobody has responded to this question either here at the or at the Tesoro forum. I'm guessing this means nobody knows or people are keeping quiet about how well the Cibola works...

 

[Bill Ladd]

As, I'm bored anyhow I was going to answer this before, but I figured I'd just be starting the usual "brand war". Happens alot with eveyone divided up into rival "camps" like this. The X-5/ Trojon was a good fight for awhile So, I would venture to guess this is why both "camps" have treaded lightly with this one. I too, will try to be sorta careful with my answer, but I'll just say this.....The CZ-5 has been around for years & is proven to last, & is a proven depth demon. You really can't dig much deeper. So, just one comment on another forum shoudn't make or break your chance to get one. The Coin$trike is my favorite machine, but it takes a beating over there by folks who tried it for an hour & then gave it a bad "review". I have no clue what that tesoro has for tones, but the CZ-5 will give you the advantage of target ID, 3 tones, & better build quaility. It's many people's all time favorite CZ unit, & many Fisher folks were sad to see it replaced by the 3D.....
so, if that ruffled any feathers, well remember this is a Fisher forum & I'm a "Fisher Pimp" who's banned anywayz :banned:

 

[GT]

Hi Bill,

The Cibola has only one tone (not 3 like the CZ-5) and I understand how things go with camp loyalty. I'm glad the silence was broken and you bravely stepped out from the shadows to the spotlight to answer my question.

I realize this is a Fisher forum but also understand many people in this hobby own many detectors and not all from the same vendor. I'm not sure how many people in this forum own or have tried a Cibola, but it really is a great machine. It goes deep and discriminates well but it does only have ONE tone.

I am not a brand loyalist myself, I buy based on performance, build quality, cost, and features. I own a Fisher Excel and it is an excellent machine which I found complements my Cibola. What I think the Excel DOES BETTER than the Cibola is it has a better pinpointing system, it has superior ID'ing having both a 4-tone audio ID and visual ID numbering. On the flip side the Cibola is a deeper machine than the Excel (but I'm still not sure if it's deeper than the CZ-5), is less prone to RF interference near my home due to power lines, wireless Internet connections etc. and discriminates iron as well as or maybe better than the Excel, which is a bold statement because the Excel is a champ in the iron-discrimination department!

I had to send my Excel back to Fisher two weeks after purchasing it to repair if for an erratic ID problem. The ID number would swing from 5 to 35 over the place over a coin. It may be this problem was beginning to slowly creep in when I doing my comparison tests between the Excel and Cibola, so a re-test is in order. If this problem was present, it would have affected the iron discrimination tests I was conducting. I know when I first purchased the Excel it was able to easily distinguish the iron in a rusty bottle cap which neither my Quattro nor my Minelab Advantage could do.

I just started this hobby and it was very hard to separate the wheat from the chaff going into these forums and trying to determine which metal detector would do the "trick" for me. Brand loyalism doesn't have to be a subjective thing, it could be the result of a brand that really is better than the rest.

But for someone not familiar with the hobby and doesn't have experience with detectors, it is impossible to tell who is the "objective" brand-loyalists and who is the "subjective" one by reading posts.

It is not until you actually buy a metal detector and ascertain all its strengths and weaknesses and then go back to the forums and find the person (or persons) who have made similar discoveries that you begin to realize who is objective and who is not.

Through mutual consensus you develop a sense of who "really" knows their stuff. I found one person in this forum who says detector "A" consistently out performs detector "B" one day and the next day flip-flop and say detector "B" is their favorite detector, I think people like this do a disservice to the hobby by "muddying the waters."

I was fortunate and found someone who posts regularly in these forums (I won't mention names) who is extremely objective and knowledgeable. I have been basing my subsequent purchases on conversations with this "knowledgeable detectorist" and I have not be disappointed.

I'm rambling on more than I planned to, maybe I'll get lucky and a few more brave souls will step out and offer more insight to this most obfuscating topic of which machine goes deeper the CZ-5 or the Cibola.

Thanks again Bill!

PS I'm guessing you're the happy fellow on some of the Fisher user report brochures?

 

[Bill Ladd]

& yea, that's me First off, as someone rather new to the hobby, you sound like your pretty knowledgeable already, so sorry for sprinkling in a couple inside "banned" jokes, or if I appeared like I was talking down to you concerning opinions. Basically what I was getting at is, usually, (though not yet in this case) the tesoro crew will say there's is better, & "this side" will say "Oh, yea...CZ-5 all the way" This is how it happens 99% of the time & you seem to have already figured this out. But, as you indicated, basically unless someone who really knows how to run both units to their maximum potential does a fair comparison side-by-side really it's all a guess. I may be so bold to say that I'd bet the CZ-5 would be a better coinshooter, due to the tones & meter, & maybe the tesoro would be a better relic unit? Just a wild guess....So perhaps if you seek relics your good to go? Or if you seek older coins, maybe the CZ is worth getting?
The part where I said "this is a Fisher forum" I was directing towards a possible tesoro user who may have peeked in & disliked my comments (though I tried to stay "professional") I wouldn't go over to the tesoro forum & say the CZ-5 is deeper as that would really stir the drink (Plus, I have no idea so thats why I said the CZ-5 is about as deep as I wanna dig.....safe answer) I also wanted to cover myself in case someone at the reviews forum was also offended. Basically I was just on my soapbox for a spell too due to seeing my favorite Fisher's like the C$/ Excel get blasted over there. You can go from one glowing review followed by one horrible one. Basically we have no way of knowing if the "reviewer" has an agenda or has even tried the unit yet. Sometimes I wonder. Notice how I said "maximum potential"? I mean if someone gave me a tesoro right now to test against my CZ, I'd probably be able to get the CZ to appear to go deeper. Why? Because being brand loyal, I'd be able to set the CZ to ground balance perfect, etc. With the other brand I wouldn't have a clue about settings or ground balance & I'd guess. These kinds of "tests" happen all the time. There's a bias that interferes & I admit, I'm as biased as they come Plus, I'm big on really learning a detector first. But glad to hear you have a knowledgeable detectorist to help you. I know there are several here on the forums that are not as brand loyal as me HH< Bill

 

[GT]

Fisher couldn't survive long as a company if it didn't have reps like yourself to help sell their products. I imagine the worse scenario for a marketing or sales professional is to work for a company that produces inferior products and being aware of the fact that you must push inferior products onto your customers.

In the end this type of job will ruin your career. It's better to bus tables for a while than to be ruin your reputation. The most valuable asset a marketing or sales person has is his (or her) reputation.

Previous customers will remember how you dealt with them. If you bent the truth to get them to buy inferior products, they won't forget. Even if you switched to a reputable company later with great products, you will be rejected as disingenuous.

Bill you have nothing to worry about, Fisher makes great products. Now since you can't make a statement like this without jeopardizing your career I will say it. Not all Fisher products are equal, some are actually better than others. The same applies to every company. In this case I can only vouch for the ID Excel which is the only Fisher detector I currently own, it is one great detector.

I've been back and forth between forums and noticed people taking pleasure in "kicking the beehive" in the other guy's backyard. These individuals would probably be happier if they took up yoga or sought spiritual advice from a Buddhist monk but I'm sure these people realize their idiosyncrasies and enjoy "who they are" and just take pleasure in kicking beehives.

I'm hoping the better side of human nature will prevail so some "truth" can be extracted about which machine is deeper the CZ-5 or the Cibola on a coin in similar soil. The answer to this could be derived in a few minutes if one had both machines, so I'm hoping someone out there does. Otherwise I might be the one who will learn in an expensive manner.

 

[Jackpine Savage]

 

[Anonymous]

Very good analogy But I shouldn't talk being banned myself :banned:
Just to set the record strait.....I'm not on the payroll or anything Just a regular metal detectorist that was first noticed by Fisher for doing those school presentations, & then some of my stories in W&E....
Since you mentioned coin, can I be biased & put my $$ on the CZ as the winner

 

[Bowtie41]

n/t

 

[BarnacleBill]

1. What type of targets are you looking for?
2. Where will you be looking? Saltwater beach, cellar holes, high aluminum trash, high iron trash, minerals etc.
3. What features do you want on a machine? i.e. PP or VCO PP, tone ID, VDI, type of GB etc.

I mainly freshwater wade, and salt & freshwater beach hunt. I have owned a Tejon(mother of the Cibola), and currently have a CZ20, Excel, Stingray II, & BH QDII in my quiver. Based on "my" needs from the above questions the CZ5 would be far more useful if I had to choose only between the Cibola & CZ5 as my one machine.

The Tejon left a bad taste in my mouth for current Tesoro product, and I used it for a year. Therefore I am waiting to see how JackPine fares with his Cibola since we do some very similar hunting in freshwater. But it would be in addition to what I have, not replace anything.

From your posts I see that you like metrics, as do I, and I have performed air tests and in ground tests galore to seek some answers. But "in the wild" things can change dramatically, the machine that air tests well can quickly become just the also ran.

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[GT]

Good point BarnacleBill! But before I start, I am curious why you would pick the CZ-5 over the Cibola without having owned a Cibola???

Although you own a Tejon I wouldn't assume that it is better than the Cibola and that if you are unhappy with the Tejon you will be unhappy with the Cibola.

I've read enough posts to know that a good percentage of people who bought Tejons end up trading them away shortly after purchase. Some of these people then try the Vaquero or Cibola and hold on to these machines. Since I don't own a Tejon I can't tell you why, but I can speculate based on what I've learned from testing the Cibola.

I read the Tejon normally runs HOT all the time. This would be like the Cibola running in SuperTune mode. From the testing I've done using the SuperTune mode I find that it hits harder on a target but it DOES NOT GO DEEPER IN SOIL, however on AIR TESTING you do get extra depth. At the same time it makes the detector more noisy (simlar to running a higher threshold) and makes the discrimination drop off radically. For this reason I do not like running in SuperTune mode, I only do so for testing purposes.

I ran controlled tests this weekend and verified that no extra depth was gained on coins when running in SuperTune mode, none whatsoever.

I would not want to own a Cibola that run in SuperTune mode all the time. If this is how a Tejon behaves then I understand why people are unhappy with it.


Getting back to your questions:
1) I would be using the CZ-5 mostly for coin shooting and secondly for jewelry and relics.
2) I would be hunting the majority of the time on homesteads, fields, and parks.
3) Most soils I work in have moderate but not severe mineralization and will contain a good amount of trash (foil, aluminum cans, pull tabs, bottle caps, and iron)
4) I don't plan to do much water wading but I would occasionally like to search near the shore of a lake or beach.

I didn't mention the machine features I preferred on my original post because the Cibola and CZ-5 are fixed and there's no way for me to change this. But if you meant to ask what my ideal machine be I'd have to say the following:

It would have be to lightweight (under 3 lbs).
It would need to be a good discriminator of rusty metal and minerals.
It would have to be a fast sweeping and fast reacting machine.
I like a three-tone ID system (iron, mid-conductive metals, and high conductive metals.)
I prefer a visual ID system (analog or digital it doesn't matter which.)
I prefer a VCO pinpointing system.
And of course the deeper the machine the better.

To be honest if the machine gets the job done, it doesn't matter what features it has. But I will not tolerate a machine that is slow-sweeping, has a slow recovery time between targets, and is too heavy (over 4lbs).

It would be nice if you could share the characteristics of your favorite machines and kind of give a run down of their pros and cons.

Thanks much,
GT

 

[BarnacleBill]

The answer to your first question is quite simple and practical. During the winter when the lakes freeze over I go to the ocean to detect on saltwater beaches. The Cibola as a single frequency, higher frequency machine, is not well suited for that purpose. It would likely make a good "dry sand" hunter , assuming the sand is not wet from rain or mist.

Addressing your last paragraph, preferences, the machine you have now, the Excel, is very close. I also wish the PP were VCO & three tones only.

Between the CZ & Cibola:

Weight:: the Cibola is less, but CZ5 at 3.5lbs can also be hip mounted very quickly.
Mineralization: the CZ5 no contest w/ adjustable GB and salt mode also PB GB.
Depth: on higher conductive targets, my CZ20 "locked in salt mode" would stay with the Tejon no problem.
Rejected Target recovery time: The CZ's are not fast recovery, nod to Cibola.

Coil coverage: the CZ's when set to their highest stable sensivity have a deep wide cone pattern. So if you need to cover a field or beach fast with little overlap the CZ5 is for you.

If you look at the CZ design it's main purpose in life is coinshooting, i.e. nickels are moved into the high tone coin area. In modern trash, minus iron and because of ID capability I would take the CZ into the parks. On the other hand into iron ridden homesteads the Cibola gets the nod. On gold Jewelry, because of it's single higher frequency and the CZ pushing nickels to high tone, I believe you would want to use the Cibola.

Relic hunting, depends on the relics you seek, the CZ5 w/ tone ID allows you to be more selective. But in iron looking for low conductivity targets the Cibola gets the nod.

My ideal machine would combine the best features and characteristics of the Excel and the CZ series. An Excel w/ VCO PP, 3 Tone, CZ stability, depth, and a 3 position freq SW, 5KHz, 15KHz, and 5KHZ & 15KHz. And of course waterproof to 50ft would be helpful.

Current Stable:

BH QDII, Kids and guest machine, quick area check, or easy turn on and go.

Excel, main land machine, freshW beach or very shallow wading where iron is a problem.

Tesoro Stingray II, deep wader/diver for heavy iron areas. But steel washers will get you.

Fisher CZ20, go anywhere, do anything machine. Only problem is very thick iron, but certain techniques can ameliorate the issues somewhat.

If there is anything I didn't cover clearly then feel free to ask more questions.

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[chuck ky]

wouldn't the cz-5 be better on jewelery with the visual and tone i.d. i like being able to get the nickels without pulltabs and the ability to check signals in the foil range for jewelery.

 

[BarnacleBill]

Would the CZ be easier with the increased feature set? Yes for some pieces of jewelry, but.... the Holy Grail of beach/wading is the ability to find small gold(chains, earring studs, etc).

The Cibola w/ a higher frequency(better low conductivity) will find the small gold the CZ most likely not see well. There is a flip side to it though, the Cibola in doing so will also see more small trash(foil, rivets etc.).

JackPine Savage is currently putting the Cibola thru it's paces to see how it fares. After he gets some miles on it I believe he'll be able to make a well balanced judgement as to how it does in finding jewelry amongst foil etc.

I am NOT saying the CZ won't find jewelry. I have found my share of gold rings & medals w/ my CZ. But if wading/beach hunting you ignore pull tabs, you lose, however in a tab infested park, then yes the CZ is what I would use over the Cibola and ignore tabs. That is why I asked GT to provide more info on what and where he was using the machines he has or might purchase. Right tool for the right job.

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[Jackpine Savage]

I like what I see with the Cibola. Lots of adjustment down low in the iron range which allows you to fine tune for the site. Its pretty to close in function to the iron disc on the 1270 which works great when looking for chains in areas infested with tiny foil bits. By that I mean you can fine tune the disc so that tiny foil bits that float around sound ratty and anything a little more dense hits good.

Still working on whether or not the Cibola has the iron "see thru" I need to be effective in the shallows.

Tom

 

[Dave Z]

Kind of like Bounty Hunters.Good for removing clad from sand boxes and what not,but not much else.You should seel the toysoro and get the CZ5.This is what Bill Ladd told me say in my post.HAHA.Just funnin with ya GT.If I were you I would get the Cz5 and your ciablo,bury a coin at 8" and see how each machine picks it up.Someone who hunts on Fl.beaches,Georgia clay or rocky hills can't tell you what will work better in Wash.state.You need to do that for yourself or find somebody in your state who has already done so.HH.Dave

 

[BarnacleBill]

only a serious fellow wader would mention those blasted little pieces of foil that float along the bottom, moving every time you move the coil. It's just one of those things that "ya gotta be there" to appreciate the nuances of how different machines react.

Air tests and planted test gardens only go so far, gettin wet and breakin a little sweat is where it really happens.

Wait'n to hear more Tom, but don't rush the results on my account.

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[Cherry Picker]

I'm Jerry from texas and I didn't write that review on the Cibola. It was written by a 15yr old kid that i've hunted with and I was kicking his Cibola @ss all over the place with my CZ-5. he was so jealous he fraudulously used my name and made that review. He is now using a CZ-5. LOL. I now own CZ-5, CZ-70pro & 1236X-2. And looking for ID Excel if I can find one that works. I already traded for one but it didn't work right. Fishers CZ's are hard to beat.for Coin shooting. I use my 1236X-2 when i want to Beep dig in Iron infested sites. .
HH, Jerry

 

[Cherry Picker]

I\'m Jerry from texas and I didn\'t write that review on the Cibola. It was written by a 15yr old kid that i\'ve hunted with and I was kicking his Cibola @ss all over the place with my CZ-5. he was so jealous he fraudulously used my name and made that review. He is now using a CZ-5. LOL. I now own CZ-5, CZ-70pro & 1236X-2. And looking for ID Excel if I can find one that works. I already traded for one but it didn\'t work right. Fishers CZ\'s are hard to beat.for Coin shooting. I use my 1236X-2 when i want to Beep dig in Iron infested sites. .\r\nHH, Jerry

 

[GT]

Hi BarnacleBill,

Your reply was detailed and well thought out. You supplied plenty of useful and practical information. Thanks!!!

I like you're description of the perfect machine combining the best features of the Excel and CZ, this too would be my perfect machine. I hope Fisher is listening If not maybe Bill Ladd will past the word down to the marketing hunchos at Fisher, if he's listening

This past weekend I discovered that the Cibola does get fooled on rusty bottle caps. My Excel handles bottle caps well and lets you know (with negative ID numbers) that you've found iron.

Well with my luck I'll buy the CZ-5 and two weeks later Fisher will announce their latest and greatest detector, the one with the best traits of the Excel and CZ. Well, maybe this wouldn't be such a bad thing after all!

Thanks again!!!

GT(WA)

PS: How does the CZ-5 do on rusty bottle caps???