Ctx O-ring sealing situation discussion with Minelab

[Roland58]

Disclaimer: I have not tried my CTX in or under water, as yet.

It does seem, that if the machine is affected by water intrusion, that a small bead of dielectric or silicon plumber's grease along the seal itself could help resolve the issue. It would, of course, have to be clean for this to work well.

 

[INSAYN]

Doubled up orings may put too much pressure on the battery clamps and potentially cause failure in that area.

What I would suggest is to add dielectric grease to the battery terminals themselves so that in the event water does gets past the seal, it won't contact the terminals.

I have done this for years with my fish finder power connections on my fishing kayak. My connections are constantly getting spashed, or even submerged for minutes at a time when going through the surf zone. Not one bit of corrosion, or any shorts in 5 years. Those that have the same fish finder that failed to add dielectric grease had premature terminal failure with just a few trips out.

Minelab said that the pressure was ok just that the "configuration" of the two O rings together may(or may not) be good together. What may work one time may not work well another. The clamps are pretty hefty and can take more pressure that they use.

Thats a great idea about the dielectric grease. Im going to do some research on that. I could see that being useful on larger connections but the ctx are fairly small. Do you still see the benefit with that in mind?

If the clamps can handle more pressure than the stock oring create, then just creating a new fatter rounded oring that is NOT flat on one side would be the ticket.

Protecting the smaller connections like the CTX battery from corrosion (water/air/electrical current) is the exact reason for applying the dielectric grease in the first place.
My fish finder connection pins are pretty tiny, but completely protected. Without the dielectric grease, the pins in those connections will erode rather quickly. This has been experienced by several folks that did not know about applying this dielectric grease first.

Disclaimer: I have not tried my CTX in or under water, as yet.

It does seem, that if the machine is affected by water intrusion, that a small bead of dielectric or silicon plumber's grease along the seal itself could help resolve the issue. It would, of course, have to be clean for this to work well.

Adding dielectric grease to the oring may or may not help the seal, but will allow sand to stick and this alone will compromise the seal. Dielectric grease on the battery terminals will help block water contact, but any bits of sand that may get on the terminals won't effect the battery usage.

 

[OldBeechnut]

I use this on ikelite battery contacts, O-rings, coil cable, headphone cord of the Excalibur. Dow Corning 111 n 7, if your a saltwater hunter this will extend the life of .....application is easier with a syringe.

 

[JamesBondaka]

If the clamps can handle more pressure than the stock oring create, then just creating a new fatter rounded oring that is NOT flat on one side would be the ticket. .

Thats what I thought or creating a slightly larger one in thickness of the present O ring. Makes sense to me....we will see if ML sees it our way.

 

[JamesBondaka]

I like anapo1 idea with the Teflon tape etc.....and no sticky residue to deal with....and its cheap....something to ponder.

This came to me now ...what a desiccant pack in the battery chamber?

 

[DukeOBass]

I'm just saying that it's unbelievable that anything like this should have to be done to a machine that costs as much as this one does.

 

[JamesBondaka]

I'm just saying that it's unbelievable that anything like this should have to be done to a machine that costs as much as this one does.

Agreed!

 

[Roland58]

I'm just saying that it's unbelievable that anything like this should have to be done to a machine that costs as much as this one does.

+2! I still have to stand with the folks that believe a seal with slightly more thickness would solve the issue and not put any adverse strain on the battery hold-down levers.

 

[mcb613]

Interesting post... Have had a comment that I finally figure is the right time. As a SCUBA diver, we always rely on silicon grease for all o rings. I would assume that it would certainly help as long as it is kept clean. Dirt and sand will surely stick if contact is made. I have never had any issues with sand and silicon for five gear. The grease would also make the o ring stick in channel better. Ive never tried it on the CTX, cause I cant get myself to submerge a $2500 bill. Of course I have an Excal for that. Just a though to consider. If anyone has tried it, please comment. Thx

 

[nagov]

Interesting post... Have had a comment that I finally figure is the right time. As a SCUBA diver, we always rely on silicon grease for all o rings. I would assume that it would certainly help as long as it is kept clean. Dirt and sand will surely stick if contact is made. I have never had any issues with sand and silicon for five gear. The grease would also make the o ring stick in channel better. Ive never tried it on the CTX, cause I cant get myself to submerge a $2500 bill. Of course I have an Excal for that. Just a though to consider. If anyone has tried it, please comment. Thx

The proper grease for the "seal" material and I agree with most all you said..... however if you get someone to sift sand overtop of you when you are diving, you MIGHT have a problem with sand and your dive gear o-rings.....

NO-OX-ID on the battery terminals AND proper cleaning of the seal and sealing surfaces is all that is really needed. Slack off on the cleaning routine once (with or without silicon grease) and you are going to be in trouble. To be safe, it is always a good idea to pull the battery back at the car when you are done with your water hunt IF it was submerged. This does two things for you....piece of mind that you cleaned the seal properly by finding no water AND allows you to dry things out quickly IF you had a leak....the longer you wait with saltwater in there, the more corrosion you will have. It isn't pretty when it happens!

Cliff

 

[glasartisan]

I think we all might be over thinking this mater. KISS.I feel if Minelab wanted us to use a non-petroleum lubricant they would of sent a packet along or specifically said silicone is needed every time the D-ring is compromised. Look, I realize yes what works for my conditions might not work for others; but I often have the CTX submerged for some long days in summer. As long as 12 hrs. I never had a problem with water infiltration. Remember preparation can be 95% of the task at hand. Rinse, rinse and more rinse in fresh running water till the D-ring comes clean. And wipe out matting surfaces. I use no man made lubricant on D-ring except what I might use is a little human saliva and or dampend with water and then correctly position D-ring. Here is an important part is to make sure when operating the 2 snaps that you try to get them to both shut down at the same time on battery. Otherwise the D-ring could be getting dislodged if you are snapping one down first then the other. Good luck fellow hunters, Steve

 

[mcb613]

Well, call it what you want.... But if I were submerging a $2500 bill, I would use the silicon grease. A little over the top, but regularly hold 3500lbs of pressure, so 1 atmosphere of pressure should be a walk in the park. Just provided my thoughts incase anyone wanted another perspective and options. People can make their own mind up without someones criticisms, unless they are warranted by proof of failure. Doesnt all critical missions and protocols have failsafes built in? Why not use them?
Thanks anyway.

 

[Digger]

I've used mine in both salt water and fresh water many times, with no sign of leakage.
[attachment 281910 nosnowhere.jpg]

I always make sure to thoroughly clean the detector after each use. That includes taking the D-ring out, and cleaning both the ring and the groove if fits in. And, I make sure the D-ring is properly seated when I put it back together. Especially making sure the corners are lined up where then are designed to be.

Minelab does have a Product notice on the sealing of the D-rings. But they do not recommend using silcon.

http://www.minelab.com/customer-care/product-notices?article=109061

HH Randy

 

[JamesBondaka]

I've used mine in both salt water and fresh water many times, with no sign of leakage.
[attachment 281910 nosnowhere.jpg]

I always make sure to thoroughly clean the detector after each use. That includes taking the D-ring out, and cleaning both the ring and the groove if fits in. And, I make sure the D-ring is properly seated when I put it back together. Especially making sure the corners are lined up where then are designed to be.

Minelab does have a Product notice on the sealing of the D-rings. But they do not recommend using silcon.

http://www.minelab.com/customer-care/product-notices?article=109061

HH Randy

Randy,

Im glad your detector has not leaked....I hope I have the same luck with my 2nd one. Maybe there was some kind of defect on my first one that went unnoticed? Thats the bad thing about water.....it has no favorites on what or what not to stay out of...if it had the possibility to do so.


You are right about the "minelabs" literature NOT recommending the use of silicone but the but as I mentioned in my earlier post....the techs did say it would help create a better sealing providing that its clean in the proper areas. I have been a scuba diver for many years....and it would only make sense to me that it WOULD help....but Im not the engineer that built it.

Good luck to us all!

 

[McClod]

Its too bad that the D-ring is so dainty, something slightly larger that would expand slightyly when the battery is in place to enhanse the sealing capacity should work good. But a seal that requires so much "babying" concerns me, especially when it leaks, does Minelab consider that operator error and not cover it under warranty or have they been good about covering the repairs? Still its a PITA that one wouldhave to send it in.

 

[Digger]

I don't disagree. The main thing to remember, whether you use silicone or not, is to make sure that ring and groove are clean and properly aligned, before locking down the cover. Although I've not had any problems with mine when not using a silicone sealant, I can see where a small amount of silicone sealant could improve the seal of D-ring IF the components are clean and properly aligned. Note that, although the Minelab document does not recommend using silicone sealant....it doesn't recommend against it either. HH Randy

 

[JamesBondaka]

Its too bad that the D-ring is so dainty, something slightly larger that would expand slightyly when the battery is in place to enhanse the sealing capacity should work good. But a seal that requires so much "babying" concerns me, especially when it leaks, does Minelab consider that operator error and not cover it under warranty or have they been good about covering the repairs? Still its a PITA that one wouldhave to send it in.

Hi again,

I know Minelab took care of mine....I have heard of others as well. I would say....that unless there was gross indications of abuse or lack of care...thats what the warranty is for and they would repair or replace the detector. As my discussion with Minelab went....It doesnt really need "babying"....just some reasonable care as one would expect with a gasket exposed to sand/salt etc I again personally think there could be an improvement and I agree with you on the larger/thicker o ring.

Lets test our detectors out here when the water get warmer....like July?

 

[Fletch88]

If minelab could just open up the mold by 15-20%, I feel that most of the leakage problems would be solved. The Oring is just too dainty for the harsh environments that water detectors see. Someone needs to develop an aftermarket kit for CTX's. as they start rolling off warranty.

 

[OldBeechnut]

Digger not to question your post but you hunt out in this, reason, I know two guy that have tried it and both CTX's took a beating, coil issues and flooded. This would be where I would use the machine also, but if you can do it then others can also....their thing, they were questioning the fact that maybe the waves created pressure on the housing, that is more then 10 feet deep, so they felt that's why there was flooding. And then the no coil found issue? Minelabs took care of both machines with no problems but now they are Leary of venturing out past knee deep.

 

[mcb613]

I dont think the waves would exert more pressure the 10' because it is still splashing induced. There obviously is some design issue since many have reported flooding. If I were going to submerge, the silicon grease would be employed and cannot hurt. Anyone actually try the grease yet and still have issues?