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CoRe Thoughts
- Thread starter Keith Southern
- Start date
VCO audio, as I'm sure you know, is a function that some people really like [size=small](I do, most of the time)[/size] while others struggle to adapt to it. All they want is a beep or no beep.
I like any adjustment feature that is versatile and functional, and that includes VCO audio ... but it needs to be 'functional.' Many people know how VCO can be helpful in Pinpointing as some makes and models have VCO incorporated in the All Metal Pinpoint function. I like a good VCO for Pinpointing, but even though I used to enjoy using the Fisher CZ5 and others, I didn't care for their VCO audio circuitry design because it would peek very abruptly. A more 'functional' VCO audio will have a more gradual increase in pitch as the coil approaches while allows the operator to make a more precise Pinpoint.
I guess some readers might not understand what VCO [size=small](Voltage Controlled Oscillator)[/size] is, or does, so really quick I'll explain.
With a traditional single tone audio you get a 'beep' in the Discriminate mode. With a good modulated audio, that 'beep' volume or loudness will be weaker or fainter on a smaller or distant target, and as the target-to-coil distance gets closer, you hear a louder volume. This holds true for a traditional single-tone All Metal mode or All Metal Pinpoint function. Weak audio for targets farther from the search coil and as the coil-to-target distance decreases, the response gets louder. Still the same pitch or tone frequency, just a difference in volume or loudness.
Some makes incorporate a VCO audio which is a 'pitch' change that will increase or decrease if the target gets closer to the coil or farther away. That's what makes it helpful in Pinpointing because you hear the loudness change as well as a pitch change. It is much more apparent and pronounced than just a static single tone. Most detectors might have a VCO incorporated in the Pinpoint function, but not in the selected All Metal search mode. Most detector makers don't incorporate a VCO in any of their motion-based Discriminate modes, but some do.
With the Nokta FORS CoRe, only the DI3 [size=small](the 3-Tone Discriminate mode)[/size] doesn't incorporate a VCO or pitch-change audio. Both the DI2 and COG motion Discriminate mode have a 2-Tone audio. A static lower bass-like tone for Iron targets, and a VCO Audio for non-ferrous targets. It is a more 'bold' VCO pitch increase as targets get closer to the search coil. I like it, but it does take a little adapting to if you change from a different detector function.
The FORS Coin & Relic also has a pitch based response in both the GEN All Metal mode as well as the All Metal Pinpoint function. The difference, however, is that it is a much less abrupt increase in VCO, being more gradual and refined, and that can help both in All Metal mode searches as well as doing any target Pinpointing. There isn't a switch to activate it, the VCO audio pitch-change is simply designed into the circuitry.
Personally I like the VCO audio response difference between the Discriminate search modes and the GEN All Metal mode.
Monte
I like any adjustment feature that is versatile and functional, and that includes VCO audio ... but it needs to be 'functional.' Many people know how VCO can be helpful in Pinpointing as some makes and models have VCO incorporated in the All Metal Pinpoint function. I like a good VCO for Pinpointing, but even though I used to enjoy using the Fisher CZ5 and others, I didn't care for their VCO audio circuitry design because it would peek very abruptly. A more 'functional' VCO audio will have a more gradual increase in pitch as the coil approaches while allows the operator to make a more precise Pinpoint.
I guess some readers might not understand what VCO [size=small](Voltage Controlled Oscillator)[/size] is, or does, so really quick I'll explain.
With a traditional single tone audio you get a 'beep' in the Discriminate mode. With a good modulated audio, that 'beep' volume or loudness will be weaker or fainter on a smaller or distant target, and as the target-to-coil distance gets closer, you hear a louder volume. This holds true for a traditional single-tone All Metal mode or All Metal Pinpoint function. Weak audio for targets farther from the search coil and as the coil-to-target distance decreases, the response gets louder. Still the same pitch or tone frequency, just a difference in volume or loudness.
Some makes incorporate a VCO audio which is a 'pitch' change that will increase or decrease if the target gets closer to the coil or farther away. That's what makes it helpful in Pinpointing because you hear the loudness change as well as a pitch change. It is much more apparent and pronounced than just a static single tone. Most detectors might have a VCO incorporated in the Pinpoint function, but not in the selected All Metal search mode. Most detector makers don't incorporate a VCO in any of their motion-based Discriminate modes, but some do.
With the Nokta FORS CoRe, only the DI3 [size=small](the 3-Tone Discriminate mode)[/size] doesn't incorporate a VCO or pitch-change audio. Both the DI2 and COG motion Discriminate mode have a 2-Tone audio. A static lower bass-like tone for Iron targets, and a VCO Audio for non-ferrous targets. It is a more 'bold' VCO pitch increase as targets get closer to the search coil. I like it, but it does take a little adapting to if you change from a different detector function.
The FORS Coin & Relic also has a pitch based response in both the GEN All Metal mode as well as the All Metal Pinpoint function. The difference, however, is that it is a much less abrupt increase in VCO, being more gradual and refined, and that can help both in All Metal mode searches as well as doing any target Pinpointing. There isn't a switch to activate it, the VCO audio pitch-change is simply designed into the circuitry.
Personally I like the VCO audio response difference between the Discriminate search modes and the GEN All Metal mode.
Monte
Keith Southern
Active member
You Know what Monte...
I had my Tone in all metal set to 5.....
when you go to 1 you can really hear the VCO report..as you go up towards 5 each step seems to loose the VCO zip..at least to Me...
One other thing I also noticed....the VCO all metal mode is active more so when the targets are closer to the coil...the actual threshold does not feel VCO...like on say a Lobo ST or Vaquero..where the threshold is the smooth zippy buzz...this threshold is more for lack of better words analog style feel...and the VCO kicks in about the same time a VDI comes on the screen...
I must say its almost a marriage feel of both types ..analog thresh and VCO ramp up when closer to the target......Another unique feature....Very perceptive...
on deep targets you will not really notice the VCO zip in all metal...but on shallower targets its there...
P.S. the all metal mode on the Core is quite impressive in depth on isolated targets...Ive dug a couple of deep minnie balls of the .58 caliber and they sounded great in all metal.. they were at the 14 inch mark...You dont notice the VCO report at that whisper threshold waver depth.. LOL!!
Thanks for pointing out the All metal VCO Monte...!!!
Keith
I had my Tone in all metal set to 5.....
when you go to 1 you can really hear the VCO report..as you go up towards 5 each step seems to loose the VCO zip..at least to Me...
One other thing I also noticed....the VCO all metal mode is active more so when the targets are closer to the coil...the actual threshold does not feel VCO...like on say a Lobo ST or Vaquero..where the threshold is the smooth zippy buzz...this threshold is more for lack of better words analog style feel...and the VCO kicks in about the same time a VDI comes on the screen...
I must say its almost a marriage feel of both types ..analog thresh and VCO ramp up when closer to the target......Another unique feature....Very perceptive...
on deep targets you will not really notice the VCO zip in all metal...but on shallower targets its there...
P.S. the all metal mode on the Core is quite impressive in depth on isolated targets...Ive dug a couple of deep minnie balls of the .58 caliber and they sounded great in all metal.. they were at the 14 inch mark...You dont notice the VCO report at that whisper threshold waver depth.. LOL!!
Thanks for pointing out the All metal VCO Monte...!!!
Keith
Keith Southern
Active member
I dont have one on the CoRe in the Test Garden posted..I have filmed, but I have not loaded it...
My Judgement told me to hold off...something about it felt weird on the trgets ..they were fresh burried...no need in just sticking it on Youtube when Im not comfortable with the test...that would not be fair to no one, myself included...
The 10 inch dime with stock coil was barely there in my harsh dirt...11" Dime no go= too choppy.. 13" Nickle heard very easily...this is in DI2...sens 97..
I may try again...that test was done about 2.5 months ago ...the targets were fairly fresh...maybe Now they will sound different...
I sort of wanted to Get The Racer in hand and sort of show the differences/Similarities of the CoRe and Racer in performance on film...
Should make for some great topic's..
thanks for asking
Keith
My Judgement told me to hold off...something about it felt weird on the trgets ..they were fresh burried...no need in just sticking it on Youtube when Im not comfortable with the test...that would not be fair to no one, myself included...
The 10 inch dime with stock coil was barely there in my harsh dirt...11" Dime no go= too choppy.. 13" Nickle heard very easily...this is in DI2...sens 97..
I may try again...that test was done about 2.5 months ago ...the targets were fairly fresh...maybe Now they will sound different...
I sort of wanted to Get The Racer in hand and sort of show the differences/Similarities of the CoRe and Racer in performance on film...
Should make for some great topic's..
thanks for asking
Keith
Charles(Sabre)(Tx)
Member
Most of us will be anxiously awaiting your tests between the racer and core...that will be an interesting report. Thanks Keith for all your input and time that you give regarding metal detectors.
Charles
Charles
Keith Southern
Active member
The 10" was in disc mode DI2...upper 90s sens...
.58 cal..Selma Arsenal lube was in all metal with the large coil attached...no I.D.great loose loamy dirt...80 sens ..
But as you Know alot of units will dig deep in all metal on isloated bullets especially..
Keith
.58 cal..Selma Arsenal lube was in all metal with the large coil attached...no I.D.great loose loamy dirt...80 sens ..
But as you Know alot of units will dig deep in all metal on isloated bullets especially..
Keith
indianbullet
New member
Great review and I think answered some of my novice questions.
Thank you.
Thank you.
knack4iron
New member
I love mine.Gonna get a small coil for it. I've only school hunted with it and mostly in DI3 but I'm a 30 year relic hunter and I got the feeling its gonna be hot in the iron laden flats.
... while the stock 7X11 DD coil balances well and the unit is comfortable to work more open areas with low-to-moderate target scatterings, you will be amazed at the performance with the smaller coil!knack4iron said:
'HOT' is but a hint at how well the FORS CoRe, and cousin Makro Racer, handle dense iron trashed sites with their 4.[size=small]7[/size]X5.[size=small]2[/size] DD 'OOR' coil.Some coils are very pronounced elliptically shaped, but decades ago when Tesoro introduced their 8X9 Concentric coil, I started referring to it as an 'OOR' coil [size=small](Out-Of-Round)[/size], and that term fit the described measurement of the Nokta/Makro little coil as it isn't a round coil, but not fully elliptical like we often see. Even better than its unique appearance is the in-the-field performance!
For the bulk of fifty-plus years I have been detecting, I have favored smaller-sized search coils due to the trash I encounter at most older places I hunt. The 'OOR' coil can be worked with a slow, methodical sweep in really nasty environments and provide very reasonable performance and surprising depth for its size when you move into less littered conditions where target masking is minimal. Get that coil, pick your worst condition sites, keep the Discrimination low and work the coil slow and methodical, then report back on your successes.
Monte
Yes, the small coil is "hot" indeed and great for separation.
Do you guys turn the sensitivity down when using this coil? I find, that when using the small coil, I leave the sensitivity on the factory preset in DI2 (or even lower it a bit) as the machine tends to over load a lot on the shallow targets. When this happens I just lift the coil until I get a stable signal and numbers.
Dean
Do you guys turn the sensitivity down when using this coil? I find, that when using the small coil, I leave the sensitivity on the factory preset in DI2 (or even lower it a bit) as the machine tends to over load a lot on the shallow targets. When this happens I just lift the coil until I get a stable signal and numbers.
Dean
facts of the FORS CoRe performance are just that .. FACTS, and it is a FACT that it definitely performs well.
There are times when I reduce the Sensitivity slightly in very, very dense trash, and in the trashier areas I always hunt in Di3, with ID Mask at '10' most of the time, and '23'/'24' when the iron nails are really rattling my noggin.
Monte
The FORS CoRe, as well as the Makro Racer, when equipped with their little 'OOR' coils, are simply deadly. I haven't found any modern-technology detector/coil combos that can match them yet in a dense iron nail infested site.dbado1 said:
Seldom. I am usually anywhere from the factory default to '85.'dbado1 said:
Overload is not a problem for me as it alerts me to targets that would otherwise be rejected [size=small](not heard if Discriminated)[/size] and it's simple to lift the coil. Doing so also indicates a target's possible depth and/or size, and knowing a metal target is present lets me know to check around it for any possible good-target masking.dbado1 said:
There are times when I reduce the Sensitivity slightly in very, very dense trash, and in the trashier areas I always hunt in Di3, with ID Mask at '10' most of the time, and '23'/'24' when the iron nails are really rattling my noggin.
Monte