Combined Tone Profile FE Line

[Digger]

Randy that little bit of disc sure makes that high stick out I got sick of listening to all those nails as far as sweep speed the tighter to the nails the slower you have to swing but with the test I described you don't have to go that slow just a 3 to 4 second sweep per pass . sube

I agree sube. When I am hunting a field in an effort to find where the actual homestead was located, I hunt fairly quickly, in minimal discrimination. However, when I get into the nails and other bits of iron trash, I flip on the discrimination pattern and slow down my sweep. Thanks again for the follow-up. I'm anxious to see your video. HH Randy

 

[sube]

Now a nickel will up average with the iron it well read 27.30 to 29.35 in high trash same as ferrous coin combine but when swept north south ferrous coin well try to build a cursor on the 12 line or above where as high trash combine will build it at 27.30 to 29.40 .

Now a nickel will up average with the iron it well read 27.30 to 29.35 in high trash 4 tone conduct same as ferrous coin combine but when swept north south ferrous coin combine well try to build a cursor on the 12 line or above where as high trash 4 tone conduct will build it at 27.30 to 29.40

Error the second paragraph is right. sube

 

[Digger]

Thanks again sube. I like to hunt by ear when I am out in an open area. But when multiple targets are under the coil simultaneously, I prefer using the smart screen images provided byTarget Trace and Target Trace Pinpoint to separate and confirm individual targets. I got to thinking about TID numbers vs. images on the screen vs. audio response, and remembered making a series of posts when the CTX was first introduce. Here is a link to one that shows a still shot of multiple targets. Doesn't really add much to this conversation. But for those who are new to the forum it might shed some light on the benefits of TT and TTP. http://www.findmall.com/read.php?86,1702492,1702492#msg-1702492

HH Randy

 

[Bryan V]

Bryan....could you check your two programs to make sure ALL of the other settings are the same, except for the placement of the Combined audio horizontal line? Specifically check for discrimination blocks, Target Separation mode, parameters of each bin and the tones assigned to each bin. I'm wondering if there could be something different between the programs that could be altering the audio response of your target, not necessarily the ability of the CTX to detect the target. Without knowing what appeared on the screen with each program, I hesitate to venture a guess. Another suggestion I would have would be to eliminate ALL of the discrimination and see if you get the same results in both of your programs with all targets accepted. Hang in there, there are folks on this forum who help us figure this out. HH Randy

Here is my original program that I use most of the time that failed to respond.
Response-Normal
Recovery-Deep
Target Separation-Ferrous Coin
Tone Profile-Combined
lower FE bin set at FE24 CO Bins set at 9-17-34
Rejected FE Lines 1&2 from CO1 through CO33
Rejected CO Line 1 from FE1 through FE35
Rejected FE35 line from CO1 Through CO50
Rejected CO Line FE1 Through FE 35
Rejected Blocks:
On FE line 34 blocks CO47 48 49 and 50 rejected
On FE line 33 blocks CO48 49 50 rejected
On FE line 32 blocks CO49 50 rejected

My New Program that responded correctly is all the same as above except my Lower FE Tone bin was set at FE32 and did not have the small group of rejected blocks in the bottom corner.
Just rejected FE line 35 CO1 through CO50 and CO line 50 FE1 through FE35.
I also had 2 more lines rejected on top. FE line 3 and 4 in addition to line FE1 and 2 over to CO33.

I double checked all my tones and everything is the same between them.
75Hz on the bottom. 310-511-660 and 1125Hz left to right for the CO bins.

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[sube]

I have a theory on how minelab set up the fe co# s you see in the stock pattern where the fe line is set to I think 20 or 21 this is where all targets with iron come in at ( that minelab was sure there was a coin with iron or other good non ferrous item ) Put it this way that 21. 45 was going to 90 percent coin or other good object another words a no brain er . That was given a high tone .

Now compare it to a 29.45 a lot harder to decipher so minelab wants to make all targets go low at 22.45 to 35 .45 and all targets go high at (21.45 to 12.45 go high these are no brain er iron coin or other good target combos okay)

As you notice if minelab was to set there factory program fe line to 35 and have everything go high with iron people would be going crazy .

Now it's great to be able to adjust your fe line to 35 but your going to get more highs and more falsing with nails this is where skill comes in .

But with that fe line set at 21 your not going to hear a high tone for a 22.45 to 35 .45 when a coin is tight with iron where that coin signal is mixed with iron and say it's true reading on the fe and conductive side is
27.45

Now nails are not the same you have friendly nails these nails will disc out no problem east west and north south . then you have what I call bastard nails that will disc out east and west but high tone north and south.

A nail laying east west is easy to disc out but when north south some nails you can't disc out ( bastard nail ) But by knowing what to look for switching from ferrous coin combine to 4 tone conduct you will be able to disc these out by audio and what the cursor is doing on the screen.( most of them )

My video will show this also disc out the last 3 lines on the right side will cure some bastard nails from 12.48 12.49 and 12.50 from the 12 line down to the 35 line. People will ask why disc these out (i would say what have you found here)

But since we can go below the 21 line we can analize and see if we can make a coin stand out at 29.45 . I like that because there are more targets here than clean hit's left .

I'm trying to get this video out so give me some time sube

 

[JJ]

Sube, I enjoyed your youtube video proving Bryan's point. I really don't know how or why that worked but I feel confident that settings change will benefit me in heavy iron. Thanks, JJ

 

[mcb613]

Maybe its what Sube talks sbout with 2 diffetent circuits for doubd and TID. Maybe the disc is there, bit your missing just the audio?

 

[sube]

Sube, I enjoyed your youtube video proving Bryan's point. I really don't know how or why that worked but I feel confident that settings change will benefit me in heavy iron. Thanks, JJ

I think it works because that coin and iron is giving it's true id the ctx can't separate the two when that close so it reads it as one and since it's below the 21 fe line you won't hear it because it's a 29.45 . sube

 

[glenn3-88]

Hi guys. Been missing a while due to heat stroke. Back 100% thanks to God's blessing.
Before I got sick, I had an incident where I found a Merc in a hole with a spark plug. The spark
plug was later discovered to be of the same kind used in T & A Model Fords. Very old. Very rusty.
As I scanned it, I got the null sound in all directions but one. I actually walked away from it and
curiosity brought me back. It showed about 5" deep. I took my time and for sure, the dime was
leaning up on the spark plug at a 45% angle. The 3 positions I could hardly get a hit on was the
edge side or thin side of the coin facing the bottom of the coil. When the coil was facing the flat side
of the coin, I got a loud distinctive clear high pitch beep with a fully red circle. Is it possible that the
angle of the coin had anything to do with this. If his ground is that cluttered with iron or steel then
there is a possibility that could be a contributing factor that moving the FE line down "may" help
when on the thin side of his sweep????

 

[metalpopper]

I get the point you are trying make Bryan. You're right that it doesn't make sense on paper so I won't try to bounce any logical explanation off of you. I do plan on building a Bryan V iron program with your setting to cross check targets out of pure curiosity. Another thing that enters my mind is that traditionally, Minelabs are like snowflakes in that no two are alike. Quality control hasn't always been the best resulting in many of the same machines being their own individual animal. Not saying this is the case here but I wouldn't rule it out. JJ

********************************************​

V Minelabs are like snowflakes in that no two are alike.
Quality control hasn't always been the best
resulting in many of the same machines being their own individual animal.
Not saying this is the case here but I wouldn't rule it out. JJ​

??????????????????????????​

Hello JJ.

This part of your postings, gives me cause to question your perception of Minelab detectors?..

Can you explicitly justify your critical assessments? especially of Minelab, who's organisation is world leading in its standards.

Are you technically knowledgeable and intimately informed, about the design tolerances and quality control of their products;,

such that you can be so critical?


A better rational regarding the 'differences' of performance, is that it is the circumstances in personal settings and subsequent

usage, which probably gives rise to the variations you generally attribute to Minelab detectors.

Any detector and its situation of operation, are ''unique'; as are the individual's choice of settings and innate abilities of interpreting the outcomes,

To be able to justify any complaint of poor 'production-tolerance' should only be done, under well defined conditions, and not based on arbitrary test scenarios performed by non standard individuals 'swinging'........Matt

P.S.

Regarding the FE line debate; I personally choose 27 FE as an audio datum crossover point.

Of course, there is no fixed rule, simply a matter of choice by experience, in your situations.

Minelab, and their 'Time domain' analysis, have given the modern detectors, brilliant capabilities.

An astute detectorist should be willing to dig all targets that audibly persist...regardless of iffiness'

if they exceed his choice of iron rejection.