Coins on Edge

[trojdor]

Count me in with Bryan, Jason, and Steve on this one...

If you're not digging coins on edge, you're not paying enough attention to weak and/or squirrely signals.

There can be telltale signal differences to coins on edge that can differ quite a bit from 'normal' signals.
You should already have some planted in your test garden.

I enjoy the challenge in spotting/digging them. ( ...and if it matters, I've been a very successful detectorist for a lot more than just 20 years.)

BTW, Steve...thanks for that nice bit of illustration work!

mike

 

[trojdor]

Btw,
Soon, I'll post some illustrations/explanations as to why the coins on edge are hard to spot and ID, and what to look for...and I'll try to explain what I think is making the Nox have such an issue with smaller/thinner items on edge.

But for now, I'm going hunting...

 

[laplander]

On one hunt I dug 32 halves in a row, all on edge, did I forget to mention it was a competition hunt.

Very interesting discussion and is relevant to the pursuit of coins on the EDGE of detection

I should go now
Laplander

 

[ohiochris]

The huge amount of flat surface area on the front and back of a coin VS. relatively none on the edges means that they are nearly ......always .......going to be flat and not on edge , just simple physics. On edge coins do happen from time to time but are much more rare than people think , so rare that I dont even consider them or have any concern over how a detector reads them.

I read many posts on the internet forums where people are describing a coin they found on edge , I call B.S. on most of them , .....unless you get very .....very lucky and somehow manage to not disturb that coin in the soil its in as you are digging it , which itself might be a one in a million shot , there is no way you could possibly know that coin was on edge. Coins carefully pulled from an intact flipped plug could be identified correctly as on edge at times , so I will give you that ,.....but under any other circumstances you are nearly always going to dislodge any target you are digging and disturb the soil its sitting in long before you can identify whether it was on edge or not.


Ive been detecting over 20 years , found thousands of coins , and really cant tell how many if any at all were on edge. It really is that unlikely that anyone else could either. Usually its something people " assume " because the signal sounded weak or only hit one way , which is better explained as partial masking than an on edge coin........

Just because you are paying attention to the coins you dig doesn't mean others are. It s really simple and goes like this... You pinpoint the target and get a dry hole. Your handheld pinpointer shows a target in the side of the hole (and on-edge coins read inches away from their real position). So you take a another slice with your shovel. Then its REALLY easy to see orientation because the dirt plug isnt some random chunk. Sometimes you also pinpoint a target in the side of the hole and flake away a tiny bit of dirt and see the coin sitting there on edge.

Not everyone digs through dirt like a beagle on crack. Just because YOU dont see it, don't make it false. I have seen many, many on-edge coins. They are often all thats left in heavily hunted public spots like parks and schools because all the easy coins are long gone.

I did not say it dont happen , only its a lot more rare than it gets credit for. And any coin on an angle is not truly on edge. Its ok to disagree , I can handle that , but you are denying the actual physics of the particular situation. Surface area and resistence nearly always flattens a coin out , if not during the original fall then through the natural heave and movement of the soil over the years as its in the ground. Just as a parachute opens and a kite flies.....the majority by far will always be flat or on a minor angle instead of on edge. There are exceptions , but you arent missing much if you miss some on edge coins. And except for occasions , you are not painstakingly excavating your coins with tweezers and a paint brush ......no matter how careful you are.....unless you get lucky and see it in the plug , you arent going to know the coins true orientation before you disturbed it. Was it on edge or was it partially masked ? You cant know for sure once that soil is disturbed. I believe you are pretty good at what you do , but nobody is that good LOL

 

[Jason in Enid]

I did not say it dont happen , only its a lot more rare than it gets credit for. And any coin on an angle is not truly on edge. Its ok to disagree , I can handle that , but you are denying the actual physics of the particular situation. Surface area and resistence nearly always flattens a coin out , if not during the original fall then through the natural heave and movement of the soil over the years as its in the ground. Just as a parachute opens and a kite flies.....the majority by far will always be flat or on a minor angle instead of on edge. There are exceptions , but you arent missing much if you miss some on edge coins. And except for occasions , you are not painstakingly excavating your coins with tweezers and a paint brush ......no matter how careful you are.....unless you get lucky and see it in the plug , you arent going to know the coins true orientation before you disturbed it. Was it on edge or was it partially masked ? You cant know for sure once that soil is disturbed. I believe you are pretty good at what you do , but nobody is that good LOL

No, you are thinking about COMPLETELY wrong. Objects under the earth are nothing like an object in a liquid. Far too many variables and other forces at work. A coin that is verticle today may likely be flat next year and vice versa. Walk out into any grassy are a begin dropping coins. Now get on your hands and knees and look at the exact position that coin is resting. Some will be flat. Most will be angled. Some will be on-edge. Because they all land on different combinations of open ground and vegetation. Now, what is the soil like? Is it soft from recent rains, are rock hard from drought? What is going to happen when you step on those coins now? Some will be flattened, some will remain on edge, some will be pushed on-edge, right down into the soil.

So, now that the soil is on or in the ground, it gets covered with dirt, vegetation, etc. Now you have freeze and thaw cycles which are proven to push solid objects up, down, sideways, all depending on the freezing and thawing.

You think that on-edge coins are rare. If you are talking about compared the hoards of common clad around, yes, they are. But I (and many others right here have attested to) see it all the time. Maybe you are hunting the wrong spots? Maybe you aren't using enough sensitivity, or digging enough "iffy" targets. I cant tell you WHY you arent seeing them, but I am tell you that plenty of other detectorists are.

 

[littlenugget]

I think coins on edge are everywhere , just like flat coins , it's 50/50

 

[trojdor]

The last coin I found/dug 2 days ago was perfectly on edge, and a textbook example of an on-edge signal.

Detector showed around 19...faint...and depth indicator was pegged (as deep as it shows).
I was 'certain' I had another deep Indian, and carefully pinpointed and dug a plug.
Nothing. Another 'phantom' signal...

But wait... the signal was still there, AND there was another identical signal about a foot away.
That's the giveaway of a truly on-edge coin.

So I carefully pinpointed the second signal, and dug a new plug...not where the new signal pinpointed, but exactly halfway between the two pinpointed locations.
Crap. A three inch zinc on edge.

That's the big secret, BTW. Two...usually deep sounding...close targets that turn out to be nothing. Very roughly a coil width apart. (depends on actual depth)
See, it's the side of the coil's field that picks up most small coins on edge...not the center of the coil. That's why pinpoint is always/typically so far off.

If you dig a big enough plug, you can sometimes get lucky and get it in the side of the hole with your pinpointer.
(Or get unlucky and gouge it with your digger.)

And yes, I can easily tell exactly how the coins lay in my ground... It currently has the consistency of 3 week old brownies, and you frequently have to break apart every clump to retrieve targets.
You'd have to be blind in one eye, and not see out of the other, to miss the coin orientation in this dirt.

(If I thought it would help, I'd do an Indian rain dance.)

mike

 

[ohiochris]

I did not say it dont happen , only its a lot more rare than it gets credit for. And any coin on an angle is not truly on edge. Its ok to disagree , I can handle that , but you are denying the actual physics of the particular situation. Surface area and resistence nearly always flattens a coin out , if not during the original fall then through the natural heave and movement of the soil over the years as its in the ground. Just as a parachute opens and a kite flies.....the majority by far will always be flat or on a minor angle instead of on edge. There are exceptions , but you arent missing much if you miss some on edge coins. And except for occasions , you are not painstakingly excavating your coins with tweezers and a paint brush ......no matter how careful you are.....unless you get lucky and see it in the plug , you arent going to know the coins true orientation before you disturbed it. Was it on edge or was it partially masked ? You cant know for sure once that soil is disturbed. I believe you are pretty good at what you do , but nobody is that good LOL

No, you are thinking about COMPLETELY wrong. Objects under the earth are nothing like an object in a liquid. Far too many variables and other forces at work. A coin that is verticle today may likely be flat next year and vice versa. Walk out into any grassy are a begin dropping coins. Now get on your hands and knees and look at the exact position that coin is resting. Some will be flat. Most will be angled. Some will be on-edge. Because they all land on different combinations of open ground and vegetation. Now, what is the soil like? Is it soft from recent rains, are rock hard from drought? What is going to happen when you step on those coins now? Some will be flattened, some will remain on edge, some will be pushed on-edge, right down into the soil.

So, now that the soil is on or in the ground, it gets covered with dirt, vegetation, etc. Now you have freeze and thaw cycles which are proven to push solid objects up, down, sideways, all depending on the freezing and thawing.

You think that on-edge coins are rare. If you are talking about compared the hoards of common clad around, yes, they are. But I (and many others right here have attested to) see it all the time. Maybe you are hunting the wrong spots? Maybe you aren't using enough sensitivity, or digging enough "iffy" targets. I cant tell you WHY you arent seeing them, but I am tell you that plenty of other detectorists are.

Actually soil is fluid , it moves and of vibrates all the time , especially when you count in occasional water saturation and frost heave in northern climates. Rise and fall even from water saturation , however little , over time puts pressure on surface area , which is likely over time to flatten the coin out. It's hard to think of soil as a fluid , but in scientific terms it is. But hey , if you have found the rare in edge coins then I can't say you didnt. Even nature attests to my point being accurate though , you may not have noticed but sticks and rocks and many other things found IN the soil are almost exclusively found horizontal or nearly so....no matter where you look. Nature , gravity , the fluidity of the soil , surface area......and more , all come into play in that environment. All working to pull that coin as horizontal as possible. I am sure that due to certain variables on edge coins do exist on occasion but you can't argue with natural science and physics.

 

[Silver_Stallion]

I tried it no problem at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRDvMekPFGU&t=32s

 

[Terra1959]

I tried it no problem at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRDvMekPFGU&t=32s

Try that in Park 1

 

[NormS]

I have found coins on the edge and coins beat up by lawn mowers that were crumpled and actually had more than one edge and the only difference I found is maybe the VID was maybe a 25 instead of a 28 - 30 on a quarter. Who the heck cares anyway. Anyone that has detected very long knows you rarely ever completely hunt out a park, beach or sporting field. Even old home sites.

I did hear that Volstov Detectors in Moscow have developed a new detector for russian coins on their edge. They said as soon as they can get some edge coins from America the will develop a detector for American coins.

 

[maxxkatt]

keep in mind that some of the people who post videos on youtube are more concerned with generating large number of views and subscribers. Thus they tend to hype both the good or bad and some even make up news. But in my experience there is no hidden adjenda like that on the metal detecting forums and if one tried they would get shouted down by fellow members. Youtube metal detecting videos are fun to watch and some times informative. But I have much more trust on the metal detecting forums.

 

[Jason in Enid]

keep in mind that some of the people who post videos on youtube are more concerned with generating large number of views and subscribers. Thus they tend to hype both the good or bad and some even make up news. But in my experience there is no hidden adjenda like that on the metal detecting forums and if one tried they would get shouted down by fellow members. Youtube metal detecting videos are fun to watch and some times informative. But I have much more trust on the metal detecting forums.

HA! Thats a very misplaced trust indeed! Forums are full of trolls and friends of sales companies and some outright shills. It often takes a long time of interacting with members and getting to really know people to know that they are honest and not posting with an agenda.

 

[davidradio]

coins on edge are everywhere

 

[maxxkatt]

I have been metal detecting since 1988 having used Garretts and Fisher and now Equinox 800. I always found that coins on the edge were always more difficult to detect than those buried and laying flat. So is this really a problem unique to the Equinox or was the Equinox supposed to pick up edge coins just as well as flat coins? Maybe I am not understanding the problem being discussed.

 

[RavRad]

There is a glitch in Park 1 and Field 1 where it isn’t hitting larger silvers on edge. Park 2 and Field 2 hit them fine. detectorben on YouTube just put out a video showing the same exact results I’m getting.

 

[brissietex]

I think as in all software, the differing modes have all been tweaked to fit a specific use...as in the Equinox, this means the search profiles for the modes have been optimised for certain types of targets in certain conditions.

Personally, I think of coins and rings "on edge" as targets that have a similar footprint as small jewellery and the manual details this somewhat for the search profile 2 of the Park and Field detect modes. In fact, description in the Field 2 mentions "on the edge" small hammered coins, At least Minelab has seen to mentioning this in their manual. Maybe a bit more elaboration is needed or further tweaking of the software.

 

[RavRad]

If you test it out, you can tell it's definitely a glitch. Anything bigger than a silver dime completely rubber necks the audio and VDI. Silver dollars and half's should hit easy on edge, matter of fact every detector in my fleet including a GoFind hits those on edge.

You can especially tell it's a glitch because you take it out of Multi in any of the frequencies in Park 1 or Field 1 and it hits perfect. It's multi that is goofed up.

 

[u2robert]

Ohiochris ain't that the truth. I have dug 46 silver dollars in a 20' x 20' area years ago all but 1 was flat or angled that 1 silver dollar was 8" down and perfectly on edge.