Civil war ammunition

[GazinUK]

Please bear with me..
I'm detecting a site here in the UK that supposedly had a civil war (1642-51) skirmish on it. This has been documented by historians but there's no mention as to how long it lasted. There was a fortified manor/farm on the site with a moat, over the years a significant amount of musket/pistol balls have been found, the 13 shown were found by myself today. They can be found anywhere on the site, and any distance from the buildings. The land owner is doing some extensive research on the site and when I spoke to him earlier he asked the question "could they be casual loss items or fired"
If fired we assumed that it would be from the buildings, however, none have ever been found that show signs of having hit anything.
Now to my question, what are the tell tale signs when you find a 3 ringer in the USA and claim its been dropped, why couldn't it have been fired and not hit anything? If you're still reading..thank you. Gaz.

 

[Picketwire]

Lead for muzzleloaders is very soft and easily deformed. When it is rammed down on the powder, the ramrod usually leaves an indentation. Even if it doesn't, about the only thing that would stop a soft bullet without damage is a snow bank.

 

[GazinUK]

Good point about the ramrod, guess it would deform the tip. But on a round ball maybe not so much.

 

[laplander]

Guns have changed a lot in the time frames discussed. Based on what I see in the pictures the balls still have the casting marks and haven't been "rammed" down a barrel. They also lack an impact indention. Even though they are dropped they are still correct period, and are nice finds! There is a lot of information available about weaponry used during your civil war such as Calibur etc..
HH Jeff

 

[GazinUK]

Guns have changed a lot in the time frames discussed. Based on what I see in the pictures the balls still have the casting marks and haven't been "rammed" down a barrel. They also lack an impact indention. Even though they are dropped they are still correct period, and are nice finds! There is a lot of information available about weaponry used during your civil war such as Calibur etc..
HH Jeff

Thanks for the above, but this now begs another question, my own personal count is just short of 60, another detectorist gave up on the site as in his words "4 out of 5 signals were bloody musket balls" he has over 200, again in the condition as above photo.

 

[grinnell yanker]

Thanks for the above, but this now begs another question, my own personal count is just short of 60, another detectorist gave up on the site as in his words "4 out of 5 signals were bloody musket balls" he has over 200, again in the condition as above photo.

Just a thought. There's a gal on another detecting forum who's from the UK that finds a ton of musket balls, lead bullets, etc. in her hunts. For a country that doesn't have a real shooting tradition like the US, you guys sure seem to have slung a lot of lead around. No disrespect or insult meant, just an observation.

 

[Nauti]

Perhaps they were crap shots Gaz.I too live in the UK and have found hundreds of pistol and musket balls,many of which show no signs of hitting anything either and some very distorted after clearly hitting their target.I don't think pistols and muskets were massively accurate back in those days so a lot of balls would just miss the intended target and fall to the ground at a shallow enough angle not to get too damaged when they hit the grass especially in fields with wet ground.
I believe muskets were accurate between 80 to 100 yards on a man sized target which probably means a lot of misses.I suspect most of the muskets balls that hit their target and were deformed stayed in their target as they were not powerful enough to pass through a person at the ranges they were fired unless fired at very short ranges.

 

[Picketwire]

Good point about the ramrod, guess it would deform the tip. But on a round ball maybe not so much.

I own a 50 cal black powder and the ramrod leaves a mark on a round ball just like it does a mini ball. You can leave major marks on a round ball with your teeth.

For a country that doesn't have a real shooting tradition like the US

?? Then how did they acquire such an empire, bow and arrow? Their personal disarmament agenda is a much later occurrence.

 

[GazinUK]

Shooting tradition? I live in a county thats rich in hunting history, I myself used to shoot through the winter, mostly wildfowl, no we are not all personally armed, but thats the laws for you in the UK.
As regards the original topic, someone has suggested that the shot was being made on the site, possible but definitely needs more research, the only thing I can definitely say is that there are no personal items from the period, buttons, buckles, etc.

 

[Nauti]

Also consider case charges where many balls were packed into a wooden or cloth case and rammed down the barrel of a larger field gun such as a cannon.........that would spread shot all over the place much of it landing in the earth without hitting anything.

 

[Picketwire]

I believe that hitting the earth is hitting something. Canister ammunition was used for close range as described above but the round balls in them were iron and much larger than the ones pictured. There was also case shot that sometimes used lead ball that were .69 caliber but it was packed inside a fairly thick iron case that looked like a solid cannonball and was packed with black powder to make the outside fragment and spread the balls over a large area. I don't see how a large lead ball could go through the explosive blast that shattered the outside of the shell without deforming.

 

[Nauti]

Not in this country bud,they were packed in wooden or cloth cases and lead of all sizes (and shapes)was used.

 

[Confetrit]

Please bear with me..
I'm detecting a site here in the UK that supposedly had a civil war (1642-51) skirmish on it. This has been documented by historians but there's no mention as to how long it lasted. There was a fortified manor/farm on the site with a moat, over the years a significant amount of musket/pistol balls have been found, the 13 shown were found by myself today. They can be found anywhere on the site, and any distance from the buildings. The land owner is doing some extensive research on the site and when I spoke to him earlier he asked the question "could they be casual loss items or fired"
If fired we assumed that it would be from the buildings, however, none have ever been found that show signs of having hit anything.
Now to my question, what are the tell tale signs when you find a 3 ringer in the USA and claim its been dropped, why couldn't it have been fired and not hit anything? If you're still reading..thank you. Gaz.

A lot of our 3 ringer, or other lead munitions found here in the U.S.A. from our American Civil War if found in good shape and not disfigured and in good shape is presumed to be dropped. A lot of times upon examination of the bullet, a round impression on the bullets tip or nose can be found. This would be the ram rods impression upon ramming the bullet onto the soft lead in order to fire it. This would then mean that the bullet was fired, but struck nothing hard enough to cause a disfigurement to the bullet, such as soft dirt. Just my 2 cents worth. Congrat's to you on the bullets that you found Well Done.

 

[Confetrit]

I own a 50 cal black powder and the ramrod leaves a mark on a round ball just like it does a mini ball. You can leave major marks on a round ball with your teeth.

?? Then how did they acquire such an empire, bow and arrow? Their personal disarmament agenda is a much later occurrence.

Yes sir, the lead munitions were soft, and easy to carve, which a lot of soldiers did while bored in camp on both sides.

 

[IDB]

Yes sir, the lead munitions were soft, and easy to carve, which a lot of soldiers did while bored in camp on both sides.

I’ve found a lot of carved bullets in and around the Richmond area it was always a treat to find one

 

[grinnell yanker]

I own a 50 cal black powder and the ramrod leaves a mark on a round ball just like it does a mini ball. You can leave major marks on a round ball with your teeth.

?? Then how did they acquire such an empire, bow and arrow? Their personal disarmament agenda is a much later occurrence.

I stated I meant no harm, or insult. Just an observation on so many old bullets in a country that didn't have quite the prevalence of arms as the US.

 

[Confetrit]

I’ve found a lot of carved bullets in and around the Richmond area it was always a treat to find one

Yes sir, carved bullets are among some of my favorite relics to find. It is a real personal piece of History, to hold a carved bullet that a soldier took the time to carve. I have found some that while not worth much money, they are priceless to me. You probably feel the same way. These were found here from the Atlanta Campaign. You are in a great area to be a relic hunter. I hope to be going out pretty soon. Hunting will be some different for me in my almost 43 years of hunting, as I just got hearing aids. I hope it will be a positive difference. Best of luck to you. Nice looking carved bullets in your collection.

 

[IDB]

Yes sir, carved bullets are among some of my favorite relics to find. It is a real personal piece of History, to hold a carved bullet that a soldier took the time to carve. I have found some that while not worth much money, they are priceless to me. You probably feel the same way. These were found here from the Atlanta Campaign. You are in a great area to be a relic hunter. I hope to be going out pretty soon. Hunting will be some different for me in my almost 43 years of hunting, as I just got hearing aids. I hope it will be a positive difference. Best of luck to you. Nice looking carved bullets in your collection.

Wish I still lived there moved to Bedford Va. not anywhere close to having the CW history . Good luck with hearing aides I need them too.

 

[Confetrit]

I’ve found a lot of carved bullets in and around the Richmond area it was always a treat to find one

Wish I still lived there moved to Bedford Va. not anywhere close to having the CW history . Good luck with hearing aides I need them too.

Thanks. Stay on top of your hearing. If you need hearing aides, don't do like I did. I just about procrastinated and waited too long before getting them. I won't lie, I didn't want them or anything to do with them. I guess the reality is that no one does. I have only had mine a week now as of yesterday. Are they somewhat a pain as far as keeping up with them, etc? Yes, but I am hearing sounds I haven't heard in a long, long time. Lord willing, I'll be turning 68 next month, but I wish I had gotten these a lot sooner than I did. In the end, I personally believe the advantages of hearing aides outweigh not wearing hearing aides, especially if you want to be able to hear. Best of luck to you. Let's go find some CW relics.

 

[IDB]

Thanks. Stay on top of your hearing. If you need hearing aides, don't do like I did. I just about procrastinated and waited too long before getting them. I won't lie, I didn't want them or anything to do with them. I guess the reality is that no one does. I have only had mine a week now as of yesterday. Are they somewhat a pain as far as keeping up with them, etc? Yes, but I am hearing sounds I haven't heard in a long, long time. Lord willing, I'll be turning 68 next month, but I wish I had gotten these a lot sooner than I did. In the end, I personally believe the advantages of hearing aides outweigh not wearing hearing aides, especially if you want to be able to hear. Best of luck to you. Let's go find some CW relics.