Big sucking sound in the detector industry..........

[Boston Metal]

My intrest is to see how well the AT seperates targets. Most mid level machines run Zinc-Penny-Dime-Quarter. Problem with this is that wheat/memorial cents will hit as a silver dime. Crown caps will hit as quarters etc.

I have this exact problem on the F4. It is really a great machine for the money, good depth, handles mineralized soil very well, pinpoints perfectly, but I am stuck digging every memorial penny and that consumes half of my very limited hunt time. Could you take a few minutes to explain to me how the higher end machines solve this issue for you? Crown caps are an issues as well, they do ring higher than quarters, but only slightly higher so I fear if I don't dig I will pass up spots with two or more quarters in the same hole and anything bigger like a half dollar.

Frank

 

[Southwind]

I think the AT Pro and 350 have yet to prove themselves and until they do they will not have any major impact on detector sales. Buyers are a lot more cautious and informed than in the past. Most people will wait until the reports are in from other users before they take the plunge. There are always those impulse buyers and those who like to test anything new for themselves that will buy in to a yet to be proved in the field detector, but those will not make big waves in the market.

 

[Critterhunter]

I prefer machines with a "wider net" in terms of putting everything from copper pennies to silver dollars in one VDI # or "zone". I found with my Explorers that having too high of resolution in that area to split hairs on coins often caused deep, masked, or coins in heavy minerals to look real "iffy" in terms of really being a coin. If it's deep I don't care if the machine fancys it to be a wheat or silver, as I've dug either that read just like the other due to ground content, moisture, and so on. If you rely on the machine to tell you what kind of coin it is I guarantee you a lot of those "wheats" or "clads" you are passing over are better coins than that. The only place I prefer some resolution is in the low to mid range where that ability gives me the potential to split hairs on things like gold rings versus certain tab numbers.

Also, a deep fringe coin can look like junk when a machine can't make up it's mind which VDI # it should be locked into. I want only as stable of a "COIN" ID as possible on coins at depth, as that's the main way I decide to dig or not when I'm being picky, and I feel I'd pass over some keepers on those days because of the ultra high resolution in that area. Not for me. Still, on many machines that lump most coins into one area you can often tell by the Audio and even the VDI's response (how fast it climbs to coin, stays there, or drops down here and there) exactly what kind of coin it probably is and if it's silver or not.

 

[jbow]

same can't be said about Tesoro, their detector lineup is very dated!!!

Laff... sorry but I couldn't agree more. I still like some of them but THIS is funny... I ordered the latedt edition of the Tesoro MDI magazine and asked for a new catalog too... I got thenew catalog and the first detector, right there on page 3 is the New Tejon... "With Tesoro's revolutionary new detector, the Tejon, you will be able.. blah, blah.." I couldn't believe they were still calling the Tejon their new detector... LOL.

I'm not certain the AT-Pro will have such a big effect. I may be wrong but Garrett's has a lot of catching up to do. Their top teir detector design is about 10yrs old and their traditional color scheme has really looked sort of like something from Fisher-Price. The AT-Pro certainly looks better but it also looks unbalanced, the only Garrett's I have ever swung was an Infinium-LS, the coil looks a lot like the one on the LS and it, to me was too heavy... this one may not be but it looks like it. I'd want a slightly smaller coil with an AT if I were to get one, especially if I were to use it in saltwater... which would my main reason for wanting one... it is waterproof to 10' so my first use for it would be at the beach for the sand or wading... but i've heard rumor that it may not be so good for saltwater.. i'll have to wait to see what the reviews are.

As for the G2, well... FTP fumbled with the GBSE too and many had to send brand new ones back to Texas but those who use them say they are really good... the G2 is supossed to maybe be better, at least they caught a problem before most of them left the dealers... they do seem to have a lot of problems with QC in new machines but once they get them ironed out they are fine.


I'll be looking at the AT-Pro for sure and at the G2. I plan to buy a G2 but have no plans to buy an AT, but that could change according to the reviews and how well it handles mineralization. Oh... and I will be keeping the new Tejon i've had for nearly 10 yrs... laff.

Now, i'll read the rest of this thread and probably begin to change my mind... oh well, so many detectors, so little time!

J

 

[jbow]

I couldn't agree more. I have a lot of respect for Charles Garrett even though i've never used a Garrett's machine, I have read some of his books. I have been prejudiced against Garrett's for no good reason really, just somewhere along the line I got the idea that Garrett's weren't for me. Could be the green. Colud be the overall design or look. No good reason really. I will really be happy if the AT-Pro pushes the industry and is a success. It will take some doing to compete with the Omega and other machines in that price range... I hope it does well and I hope it changes the way I think about Garrett's... I will be really surprised if it compares well to a T2, Omega, or E-TRAC... but i'll also be really happy about it!!

Julien

 

[Elton]

Looks like Charles Garrett has thought it out. Top features at a reasonable price...Near $2,000.00 dollars MFSRP and just a little off that from Dealers have raised the price points way past the average persons purchasing other brand detectors too...Even 1200 is way to much for me to be comfortable anymore in a purchase. The $1495 and up is way out of most peoples price range..mine included. In my opinion the prices have to be lowered..Or their going to be left out of the sales of detectors. I am disturbed by $800 to $1895.00 prices for coin shooter type detectors. Someone is making a very large profit..and I am done paying those prices. Buy a $849.00 dollar detector today..tomorrow you can't get 500 for it. Something is off on the prices.

 

[jbow]

Elton, it is sort of like buying a new car isn't it? You drive off the lot and lose thousands of dollars in value. Makes you wonder... and another thing about some of those 1500 dollar machines is the more there is to adjust in order to make the machine work better at a site, the more things there are that you can adjust to make it work worse if you aren't really careful and frankly... sometimes my thinking isn't as clear as it used to be because of "modern medicine". The few brain cells I have left after coming of age in 1970 are working overtime trying to keep up with everything and learn everything. I know I could make it easier on myself but... I like detectors as much as I like detecting.

It seems like everything is going up except for my prices. I am still charging 1990s prices for my pest control services and there are people who are cheaper than me... thankfully, while the barnyard animals seems to be "on strike" detectors, due to good old capitalism and free market principles seem to be dropping. I think technology is finally catching up to the detector business as a whole, instead of just a few major companies. As FTP and Garrett and others increase features and drop prices it will make other companies add even better features, more simplicity, more automatic adjustments that really work and don't slow everything down, and best of all for less money.

Hopefully the day of the 1500 dollar detector is over... and the 1200 dollar detector too. I just hate it that I have held on to a few machines that I should have already sold... I wanted to sell me SE a year ago but the price began to fall. I thought it would go back up but I see now that it isn't... I need to go ahead and sell the stuff I want to sell so that the prices can go back up... which I am sure they will once I sell cheap... laff.

BTW, have you tried a T2 SE or LTD? I have the F75 LTD but am thinking that I might really be better off with a T2SE. I have a hard time using both an F75 and a T2 because I get the TID mixed up in my mind... it isn't really bad because i've used them enough but sometimes I have to stop and think about it. If I keep my T2 and sell the F-LTD you have about convinced me to upgrade it to 6.5, I wish they would have upgraded it when I sent it in about 6 weeks ago but I didn't think to ask, I assumed that they would but my problem was in the smaller power board and they didn't get into the main board. Do you really think 6.5 is worth sending it in? Have you heard from other people that have found it to be better than 6.0?

Thanks Elton,

J

 

[DirtDiggerDaveinMD]

Looks like Charles Garrett has thought it out. Top features at a reasonable price...Near $2,000.00 dollars MFSRP and just a little off that from Dealers have raised the price points way past the average persons purchasing other brand detectors too...Even 1200 is way to much for me to be comfortable anymore in a purchase. The $1495 and up is way out of most peoples price range..mine included. In my opinion the prices have to be lowered..Or their going to be left out of the sales of detectors. I am disturbed by $800 to $1895.00 prices for coin shooter type detectors. Someone is making a very large profit..and I am done paying those prices. Buy a $849.00 dollar detector today..tomorrow you can't get 500 for it. Something is off on the prices.

So right you are. I can't justify spending $1500 on a metal detector. I have an interest in the AT Pro at the moment, though that can change once the real reports come in and I can compare to the hype being posted. When White's came out with the Spectra I was excited......until I saw the price.

 

[Elton]

It's deeper than the standard T2 , it's more stable, and has sensational depth. I have a T2, and two 6.5's T2 units .I traded a detector for a new T2 6.5 straight up.That's why I have two. It is the best of all. Even deeper, and runs smooth as possible. The F75 LTD is hard to work in my area due to EMI. The 6.5 T2 does not have that issue at all.
I get better overall depth, Stable operation, and comfort factor with the T2 more so than with any other detector I have ever used.. The F75 and LTD are comfortable too..but do not function as well here. I do not have rusty bottle cap issues with the 6.5 version either. The F75's eat up old pop tops and that's very annoying to me. I like the back light on the 75's...that's for sure. But overall and I will say it again.. The T2 has been the best detector I have ever owned. I have owned a few..Trust me !!. It pretty much does the same in just a little different way than the 75's...tones on the T2 do some of the functions that are separate on the 75's.. I get better depth with the T2 here because I can open it up more.. No EMI..no ground feedback and not as much iron breaks through on the audio or ID.. So I find it a very rewarding detector to use..Once you understand the operation it's awesome .."REALLY" that's not just talk on my part.

I have tried not to like the T2...I even traded my first one away. Got the F75,,well I got another T2 right away after using the 75.....I then went for the Cameo F75 LTD..same story went back to my T2..only got the first 6.5 version..then lastly I traded for this very very hot 6.5 I love.. I have not tried the Se model or the LTD T2..But I will ......I just do not see how it could be any deeper than the 6.5 though..Someone told me the Se version was a two coil package deal is that true.. I don't know. First Texas have been putting to many models out of the same detector.It confuses people all the versions....So Julien based on my experience..yes the 6.5 version is worth getting.Something is different on it..maybe the flip flop on start up makes it better..or some little change that hasn't been announced........ I also have developed the trust factor with the T2. I trust it is doing it's job if I run the coil over targets..it will not miss a coin..I can't say that about a lot of detectors..Some null out a bunch of good targets.The T2's fast fast reset will not null out as many coins and other items..sure you get some nulling but a little change of direction solves most of that issue..whereas other detectors go into a full null if a bad target is under the coil that's discriminated out.. and you never know a good target was under the coil.. Wow I have rambled enough ..sorry !!!

 

[jbow]

n/t

 

[jbow]

Even though the prices are too high... I did buy one (V3).
It is a good machine but was hard for me to learn because it has SO many adjustments, I wasn't accoustomed to the White's terminology, and I tended to use too many tones.
It is one of two, maybe three, machines I have that will give a stable TID on a minnieball buried @ 10" for 20+ years. I didn't test the SovereignGT on it and I suspect that it too would give me a correct TID.
Not only that.. but when I was testing on this target the E-TRAC and the V3 were the only two machines I had there that would stop me on the target if I walked up to it swinging as if I were hunting. The F75 LTD would not do it... I didn't have the SE or the GT with me and the T2 was broke. The Omega would not do it but... nor would the Tejon. Later my friend said that his would but only if the GB was set just perfect. I will be back over there sometime soon if you or anyone wants me to try anything on it.. I will be trying the T2, it is back and fixed but still 6.0 I guess Iwill have to send it on it's 4th trip back to FTP for the 6.5 version.

So... I am interested in the AT-P and in the G2 but there is some bang for the buck with the V3 and with the E-TRAC... can't say it is money for nothing but it is a lot of money.

J

 

[Ivan]

..........so many people would view my comments.........thanks for your replies!!

 

[BusDigger]

.................is how a metal detector dealer replied to my question on the new Garrett AT PRO. He said that the new Garrett detector will suck up most of the new sales. Even though he is a multi line dealer, he feels that many manufacturers are going to have to react to this new offering and rather quickly. He was quite adamant that lots of Whites and Tesoro sales especially, will be lost to the new Garrett. This usually happens when a new detector comes out.Whites is a solid company with excellent service and product lineup so they will take a temporary hit, same can't be said about Tesoro, their detector lineup is very dated!!!This new detector really raises the bar in respect to features for the price. Tesoro on the other hand is getting relegated to tot lot detectors.........they really need a new effective target ID detector to stay in the game. He has recently dropped the Minelab line due to customer service complaints, poor backup from Minelab and lots of heat from frustrated customers.(When things go wrong it's always the dealer that is on the firing line) He's getting lots of previous Minelab customers asking about the new Garrett and looking at the "F" series detectors in the Fisher line. He felt that Garrett is a master at marketing and gave the example of how to introduce a new detector with the AT PRO .....Fisher on the other hand has completely fumbled the G2 introduction!!! It was an interesting conversation as this dealer is know as a straight shooter and has been in the business over 30 years. Just thought I'd pass along some of this info.......thought it might generate some conversation and be of interest.

Send a copy of this to that dealer......

I used a 250 for a few (3-4) years, and bought a 350, I was not impressed at all (it's a 250 with a larger coil). I saw the ad for the AT Pro then went out and bought myself a Tesoro DeLeon, and am glad I did. I wanted an actual "upgrade", not the same thing in different packaging. I guess the dealer was wrong.

Smitty

 

[Ivan]

Smitty..................you have a good point there!!!! Thanks for your input.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Frank, some machines are susceptible to crown caps, depending on the soil moisture & minerals. This is because (if I'm not mistaken), that there is a little tin (that silver color stuff)-coating on them, so they are not straight iron. The solution to discerning the difference between them, and conductive targets, is to vary your swing over suspected crown-caps. When you momentarily speed up your swing speed, crown-caps start to decrease in signal quality. But if it's a coin or conductive target, the signal won't degrade with a slightly faster clip to your swing. Try it and see, when you suspect a crown-cap next time.

There is "bottlecap reject mode" on some Whites, but I would never use that, as it merely muffles or softens them, and let's the machine "err on the side of safety". Better to use the swing speed trick, and let your ears decide.

 

[Dan-Pa.]

AT-3 and rechargeable AT-4 just loved gold rings and even had a switch for saltwater hunting but alas many leaked. Seems like this AT has a water tight box that protects the innards and isn't opened up to change batteries with a rubber and special grease so wish Garrett all the luck in the world but every unit has its plus and minus features and for the bucks it will hold its own with
detectors in its price range but you just can't expect miracles for the price...at least I don't and have tried a bunch in the last 20 years...

 

[digginLa]

Had my DeLeon for about 5 yrs decided I wanted something new the only thinking I had to do was did I want the Cibalo or Vaquero. I get all the info I need from my DeLeon not sure, I've used it enough that I fairly sure of what I'm digging up before I start, with the exception of copper pennies vs dimes or quarters and the odd find that can throw any machine off. Cant go wrong with Tesoro's prices and waranty either. I've browsed thru the metal detecting for sale forum here and what stands out the most is the small amount of Tesoro's that are for sale I'd say that says something about the company and their detectors. I have a feeling this new garrett isn't going to impact sales of other detectos as much as ppl think they are, a bunch of folks will run out and buy one then in a short span of time your going to see a bunch of those "best thing ever" detectors in the for sale forum. One last thought, a common theme across all the boards I've been on is set the discrimination low and dig everything, if thats the case what good is all the extra info going to do you if you plan on ignoring it anyway?? Jimmie

 

[Ivan]

Good point Jimmie........................set disc low dig all ..........................what do I need a fancy target ID for that???? If it's not a coin, ID us useless at best!!! Show me one target id unit that can consistently eliminate pull tabs??? Or for that matter is accurate on bottle caps!!!! You've made a very valid point!!!