"Best And Most Accurate Researcher For Gold And Treasures" :rofl:

[fowlercharles]

Hi John, I will just say that for me , I believe azsh07 gave us about as real of an assessment of the situation as can be made. There is scripture , If I can find it again, that forbids the use of divining. For me that's enough said. That needs more study of course and in truth verifies there is more to the matter than most would consider. To stir our thoughts even more , do a Search on "Grave Dowsing", or just about any kind of dowsing, and then have yourself a good read! Lots of info out there if you want to really get to the heart of the matter! HH Charlie

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hi John, I will just say that for me , I believe azsh07 gave us about as real of an assessment of the situation as can be made. There is scripture , If I can find it again, that forbids the use of divining. For me that's enough said. That needs more study of course and in truth verifies there is more to the matter than most would consider. To stir our thoughts even more , do a Search on "Grave Dowsing", or just about any kind of dowsing, and then have yourself a good read! Lots of info out there if you want to really get to the heart of the matter! HH Charlie

charlie, good post. However, it's often falling on deaf ears, with the magic wand crowd. In an effort to distance themselves from the "hocus pocus" (spiritual, magic, divination, etc....) implications, here's what they'll say:

They'll say it's totally scientific. Ie.: that there is "an attraction" between those far away metals, and the rod. Nothing "magical" or "spiritual" about it. When you try to point out that this is a scientific impossibility, then the endless scientific debate ensues (complete with $20 high-sounding words on their end). When the science-minded skeptic analyzes their theories, and shoots them down one-by-one as not holding water scientifically, here's where they then move to next:

They will say: "It's undiscovered science. After all, scientists once thought the earth was flat, right ? After all, scientists once said that heavier-than-air flight was impossible, right ? Therefore dowsing is totally scientific. But it's just un-discovered as-of-yet. But rest assured: Some day science will come along and explain it. Hence it's not 'spiritual' etc.... "

And as for a skeptical tester's inability to replicate or test it in double blind tests, they have that covered too : The person testing "simply didn't have the gift". Example: Some md'rs have found gold coins and great stuff, right ? While other guys have gone for decades and only found clad , right ? And NO ONE would ever claim that "detectors don't work" simply because you don't find a gold coin every time you go out, right ? Hence why the double standard for dowsing rods ?

You will always loose the common sense debates with these fellows, with the bullet proof circular logic

 

[Dave J.]

Back around 2002-2003 on the old (and evidently not archived) Tnet dowsing/LRL forum, I played around with dowsing a bit myself trying to understand what is and isn't happening. Magnetic fields are my business, so it was easy to disprove those those theories. The "subconscious knowledge" element in the process was a bit harder to get a good handle on.

The really fun part was dealing with the hucksters & con men. As Tom points out, and as so many have observed, it's all surrounded by an alibi system. Of course they deny that it's just alibis. When I dowse, it's either a good dowse or it isn't, just like anything else in life. Only by admitting to failure can a person learn anything, and therefore any activity that's got a bulletproof alibi sytem to protect it is an activity in which no learning can take place. Therefore even if dowsing "works", it's not gonna work for someone who denies themselves the chance to learn how to do it.

So I posted that I'd invented a new kind of dowsing, "Honest dowsing -- dowsing without alibis. If the dowse was no good, you just say the following words: "It didn't work this time." Or, "I wasn't any good at it today." ............ The guys who usually argued with me until the cows didn't come home were suddenly dead silent, doing their best to pretend it never happened. Which of course reveals what I'd been saying all along: that for them at least, it's all a con game.

My favorite ad is the old Gravitator ad. The evidence is right there in the ad itself that the manufacturer thereof knows the same thing I do.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....f the dowse was no good, you just say the following words: "It didn't work this time." Or, "I wasn't any good at it today." .............

Dave J, I remember that thread well. I enjoyed seeing the logical sparring going on there. Perhaps you planted a "stone in someone's shoe" to get them to stop and think ! Good job.

As for the "working" or "not working", sure it works. Here's how, in these easy steps:

a) you study a lead of a clue to something. Eg.: "Grandpa was said to have buried a jar of coins somewhere at this ranch house", etc...

b) You point the rod at various likely spots: Eg.: by the chimney, or by a cellar hole, or by some ruins, an out of place tree, etc...

c) you pull out your detector to "pinpoint" (that's the ticket). Lo & behold it beeps on metals , perhaps even a goodie! Then:

d) presto, the rod led them to goodies, eh ?

The truth is, that if you dig enough holes, around enough likely looking sites (especially when/if you have some sort of lead or clue), that you will EVENTUALLY find something. Heck, caches are even found by accident (gardeners digging ditches, etc...). So HOW MUCH MORE-SO someone specifically trying to find a goodie ?

And if the hole is dry, or you find nothing that day, well then the alibis (as you call them) start: A) Sun spots, B) microscopic metal dust around the hole C) moon flares D) Need more practice E) someone nearby had a magnet in their pocket. F) someone nearby didn't believe, thus robbing your mojo. G) well gee, we don't have a double-standard for md'rs that they need to find a goodie everytime out, so why the double standard for dowsing ?

It's bullet proof circular logic. I can use ALL THE SAME alibis to bolster the notion that a tennis shoe, covered with peanut butter, can be a treasure finding device. Eh ?

 

[azsh07]

Well I know from this guy I referenced that they have to be...in the mind....to do the dowsing.

The thing that freaked me into saying it is something odd is that they ASK the ROD questions.

IE...he would ask the rods out loud if there was silver withina specific area....the rods would dip...once for yes or two for no or vice versa...I do not remember but it was one of them.

He would also ask things like when he was right over the target and the rods were split apart ( I believe with him the rods split not crossed but it was 30 years ago)...but when he was right over the target he would ask how deep the target was in feet. The rods would dip or dance once for each foot in depth.

He asked them other questions as well but it was years ago and I justr emember thinking...o.k.....this is just not right. The rods are inanimate objects so who is REALLY asking....and it is not a copper rod.

I have looked a little into dowsing only from a research point once about 15 years ago. To see what was said about how to do it verses what Is aw and asking the rods questions is part of the ritual.

I remember this man referring to a person as either a good receiver or bad receiver like you were an antenna. A person who was a bad receiver would not be able to dows but a good receiver would have the natural ability.

He tested my dad first. He walked toward my Dad with the rods pointing forward and my Dads arms out in front of him. The point was to see when the rods would split apart by distance from my dads extended arms/hands. He got right up to my dad and the rods slowly swung apart. He told my dad he was electrically dead.......whatever that meant but I believe he was referring to an Aura.

Then he tested my Mother. He could not get close to my Mother without the rods rather swiftly swinging apart..and I mean fast. There was no way he manipulated them to move or tilted himself to make these things move so snappily. He said she was extremely conductive. My mother was freaked out.

Oddly my parents are devout Baptists and this freaked my mother out. She was not to happy with my dad.

They would not him test me....and I was not willing anyway.

Point is this is to me more of a thing related to clairvoyance etc. If you are familiar with the related practices remotely they always have to be in the mind to do it or they will not be receptive. teh mind has to be open and free or dowsing won't work..clairvoyance won't work etc. Which is why even the best dowser can have a total failure....they are not in the mind...which to me means they are not open to whatever entity is working the rods...cause again...who the hell are you asking the questions to and YOU DO HAVE TO ASK.

BTW there are alot of huckster with dowsing rods. I have meat quite a few. They would show me their ability and I just laughed. They had nothing close to the skills this friend of my dads had. Usually they never found squat. Whereas my das friend was spot on many times down to the correct distance and depth when asking the rods questions

 

[fowlercharles]

That is for sure Tom, plenty of theories for everyone's beliefs, and those with proven results explain their success with yet their own theory.Stuff does happen, and sometimes its best we just accept it, back off a bit , and be satisfied not to get so engrossed in it. That's hard to do when there are vast treasures hopefully at hand. It's an all hands man your shovels time when the wand is wagging and moving all about. I had a couple of experiences many years ago with dowsing and both were really strange and one was down right wild to witness. A buddy of mine had inherited a Spanish Dip Needle or some similar name . So naturally he wants to play with it and see what the thing is all about. Well the Needle was a serious , all business , real deal piece of work ,with a chamber for loading gold or silver samples,( he had them both) one or the other of which you wanted it to find. The chamber hung from a spring , which hung from a shovel type handle .The 'theory " was for the chamber to point/pull in the direction of whatever sample we had loaded in the chamber . Well long story short , me and my Buddy were way out in the woods on top of this hill looking for some real known outlaw gold! I had researched it pretty good and there was a chance we were within ? distance of "it". Lol we took turns holding that needle and next thing we knew it was leading us through a stand of pines down the hill and stopped right over a small depression in the ground. That's when the needle started slowly spinning in a petty wide circle and bouncing up and down, pulling my hand down every time it bounced, It was freaking us out the way it was carrying on! I checked the hole with the detector and not a peep. We dug some more and still no sound , I had as big a coil I could get on the machine . It was a Garrett, and that was probably 40+ years ago. We never got the detector to make a sound in that hole so whatever it was , was deep , and likely still there. We filled the whole , left and never went back. I have no theory, but I do have a great memory of the excitement and frenzy of our experience on the side of that hill with that Spanish Dip Needle swinging in circles and bouncing up and down in my hand! ! That was a wild and weird experience. HH, Charlie

 

[Tom_in_CA]

From what you described here: If ANYONE tried to say that was scientific (rather than magical/occult), they would be crazy.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Why would you think an object was simply deeper? Why not simply nothing there ?

 

[fowlercharles]

Natural thing to think at the time ! Too deep for the detector to detect but not to deep for the Needle to detect, or whatever it does. Could not imagine that needle thingy carrying on like it did over nothing. Same as some detectors detect deeper than others, and yeah, hummn I have dug a bunch of those Ghost Signals over the years. You can believe I don't believe it was a Ghost Signal though Tom! If I ever get another chance to check it out I'll be fired up and shovel ready !

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Could not imagine that needle thingy carrying on like it did over nothing. Same as some detectors detect deeper than others, .......!

Yup. Just as I forecasted:

a) There's "something" there. How else do you explain the "needle carrying on like it did" without "something there" "

b) And if nothing is ever found , then it's simple: It's no different than md'rs: "Some md'rs detect deeper than others". Why the double standard. Right ?

 

[marcomo]

The thing that gets under my skin is that So Called Reputable Dealers sell this kind of junk. In my thought process that is pure Greed. If one complains they will tell you that you are not using the product correctly.

Amen to that, George.

No names, but a very big metal detecting outfit sells LRLs. They won't get my business. Any company that would promote a product that is at best sleazy and unethical sure isn't going to have my best interest at heart.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... a product that is at best sleazy and unethical .....

Huh ?? What ?? LRL's "sleazy + enethical" ? How can you say such a thing marcomo ? They are electronic devices (as evidenced by the battery and wires and diodes inside). And if YOU don't happen to understand how it works, that's merely because it's "undiscovered science". After all, scientists once thought the earth was flat after all. Tsk tsk. And besides, how can you deny the proof of the testimonials of those who have found treasure with them. Tsk tsk.

Please recant of your hateful close-minded comments !