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DeepTech

Beep and dig vs. Tones/TID

H

hihosilver

Member
I have been thinking about putting up this post for awhile now, but wanted to read through some of the scattered comments about this comparison first, to get some background. My first detector was a one-tone machine. It was pretty good for its day (BH 840). I do remember digging a lot of trash and then wanting to avoid that by raising the disc to cut out alum. As you might respond, I never found gold... never. At the same time, I liked the nobs, and the analog control, and I found lots of silver with this detector (best find was a 1839 silver half dime in AU condition).

So, this was one of the reasons why, when looking for a new detector, I went with Tesoro because of the analog signal/nobs... but I wanted to try something with a little more target info, so I got the Golden uMax. I see that Tesoro also makes two great TID machines with the Deleon and Cortes, and I have not read too many negative posts about either machine. On the other hand, many, many of you Tesoro guys like the beep and dig only approach.

I would really love it if some of you more experienced guys would be kind enough to better inform this ignorant 50 year old on the pros and cons of each type of machine (beep and dig vs. TID/Tones). I'm really wanting some honest insight/discussion. I'm afraid that if I start digging all solid hits, I am going to get tired digging a lot of junk. But if on the other hand, I start relying on tone/TID info as to what to dig, I am going to miss some good stuff (including deeper silver).

I guess I would like a comparison, but also... perhaps you beep and dig guys to could explain how you avoid digging trash, or how you discern a good target from a single tone machine?

Thanks for your replies... I am really enjoying this Forum!

Paul
 
When you stated the following, you were dead on.

"I'm afraid that if I start digging all solid hits, I am going to get tired digging a lot of junk. But if on the other hand, I start relying on tone/TID info as to what to dig, I am going to miss some good stuff (including deeper silver)"

At some point, tone/visual ID becomes less accurate when the targets become deeper. Tone ID and visual ID are great for the trashy spots where targets are shallower. They are a great tool. But once those targets get deep, all tone ID and visual ID (which is really an interpretation of what values the machine is assigning to them), will become 'iffy' and can/will ID falsely.

I have dug many deep mercury dimes with my CZ6a that hit as a low tone (iron). Same with running wide open screen on my E-Trac.

It all comes down to hunting conditions , knowing the area you are hunting and knowing your machine. If you don't go after deep targets, no matter what the machine is IDing them as, you will not find as much good stuff. Yes, you will chase junk, but that's part of the game.

In my opinion, if you are in an area where you know wheat pennies and silver coins can be found, you have to dig all deep, repeatable signals and if you can size them via pin pointing, and the target signature is small, you have to dig it up.
 
therover said:
When you stated the following, you were dead on.

"I'm afraid that if I start digging all solid hits, I am going to get tired digging a lot of junk. But if on the other hand, I start relying on tone/TID info as to what to dig, I am going to miss some good stuff (including deeper silver)"

At some point, tone/visual ID becomes less accurate when the targets become deeper. Tone ID and visual ID are great for the trashy spots where targets are shallower. They are a great tool. But once those targets get deep, all tone ID and visual ID (which is really an interpretation of what values the machine is assigning to them), will become 'iffy' and can/will ID falsely.

I have dug many deep mercury dimes with my CZ6a that hit as a low tone (iron). Same with running wide open screen on my E-Trac.

It all comes down to hunting conditions , knowing the area you are hunting and knowing your machine. If you don't go after deep targets, no matter what the machine is IDing them as, you will not find as much good stuff. Yes, you will chase junk, but that's part of the game.

In my opinion, if you are in an area where you know wheat pennies and silver coins can be found, you have to dig all deep, repeatable signals and if you can size them via pin pointing, and the target signature is small, you have to dig it up.
Click to expand...

+1:yo:
 
You have the ability to do both with a tone/metered machine. You dont with one that doesnt. Thumbing the disc can get old quick if your doing it often.
Im not familiar with the golden....can you turn off the tones if you feel your relying on them to much?
ID can be very useful in most locations...as Rover says you do need to know its limitations and even those vary from one machine to another.
 
Neil said:
You have the ability to do both with a tone/metered machine. You dont with one that doesnt. Thumbing the disc can get old quick if your doing it often.
Im not familiar with the golden....can you turn off the tones if you feel your relying on them to much?
ID can be very useful in most locations...as Rover says you do need to know its limitations and even those vary from one machine to another.
Click to expand...

You cannot turn the tones off on the Golden, unless you set up the disc to eliminate a conductive range, which would then eliminate a tone or two. In reading about the Cortes, I like how it is basically a single-tone machine when hunting, and then you can use the SUM mode, giving tones to help identify a target already under the coil. I also like, and maybe somebody can comment on this specifically, how you can hunt in All-Metal mode with the Cortes, and the TID will still give you a reading, I know you still need to make a decision to dig, but getting information like that in all metal is pretty amazing I think.
 
I use both types of detectors and have done well with either. For the most part I'm comfortable with beep and dig, but I like the tid for parks, lawns, play fields where the grass is in good condition and I want a bit more info before deciding to dig. That said, I've also gotten to a point where I can do nearly as well determining if a target is likely trash or goody by thumbing the disc. - it just takes a bit more effort. I like to point out that no matter what type of detector you use, in the end, all it does is alert you to the fact that there's metal under the coil. Everything else is a machine's best guess enhanced by bells and whistles, which I admit can be useful, but the only true discrimination is in the eye of the digger. At best we all dig a fair share of junk, it's just part of the game.
BB
 
I remember back when the Toltec 100 came out and how bad I wanted one but at that time I just didn't have the funds.Through the years I've been curious about trying a TID or tone unit but for some reason I never have? I guess through time I just learned to trust my ears since I learned that way and I will say that I still prefer the modulated audio vs saturated audio. I think you get more information on a signal with modulated audio...just my opinion. HH!
 
Location and ease of recovery determines which I will use. I can't see myself doing without one of each.
 
I thumb the vaquero on almost all targets . It comes naturally.I do it fairly fast. If it breaks a little around the nickle mark its usually a tab but I dig anyway. If i get past nickle and into tab and its still solid then I start getting excited. I had tones on my last unit, for me I like the single tone better.
 
Its all about knowing the machine well in hand which comes with time in the field.
Tesoro is certainly one of the best audio variances units around and those that learn them well do quite well comes to mind.

I am sure many ID units work well also and a matter of preference and expertise...
 
Sometimes I feel like a nut and sometimes I don't. When I feel really good I want to dig every good repeatable target that's above the iron discrimination setting to see what's there. You find some really good stuff that others pass over doing that. Where I'm detecting is factored in as well. When I'm sore and tired, I want a VDI machine to talk me out of digging.

tabman
 
hihosilver said:
Neil said:
You have the ability to do both with a tone/metered machine. You dont with one that doesnt. Thumbing the disc can get old quick if your doing it often.
Im not familiar with the golden....can you turn off the tones if you feel your relying on them to much?
ID can be very useful in most locations...as Rover says you do need to know its limitations and even those vary from one machine to another.
Click to expand...

You cannot turn the tones off on the Golden, unless you set up the disc to eliminate a conductive range, which would then eliminate a tone or two. In reading about the Cortes, I like how it is basically a single-tone machine when hunting, and then you can use the SUM mode, giving tones to help identify a target already under the coil. I also like, and maybe somebody can comment on this specifically, how you can hunt in All-Metal mode with the Cortes, and the TID will still give you a reading, I know you still need to make a decision to dig, but getting information like that in all metal is pretty amazing I think.
Click to expand...

All metal with some I D is a nice feature. Disc can alter a targets response several ways in the ground.
I didnt know that about the golden, thanks for the info.

Ive got a couple of detectors that ID in all metal. The biggest problem with that is the multitude of signals.
Its something you have to get used to but its worth it.
 
I like to detect off the beaten path and dig everything above iron nails in and around the old abandoned farm houses that I hunt at. The ED-120 Tesoros are great at this, you can hunt in the nails and just pick out the goodies in the iron. In the past my favorite Tesoros for this purpose have been the Bandido series, lately I have been using the new Outlaw and it is now my main use detector for these locations.

When I hunt at an old house that IS occupied I like to cherry pick because you are being watched by the owners. In those instances I like to use a metered detector with depth readout and TID. You have to be carefull with your digging at these kind of places and be very neat in your target removal or you will be banned for life......lol
 
If you're looking fro shallow targets, I think the tone/TID will work just fine.

For deep targets, stick to beep and dig. Tone/TID loses a lot of its accuracy after a few inches.
 
What do you consider a few inches ClaDog? All of my TID machines have had no problem with coin identities down to 7-8" (DeLeon, Omega, and Xterra 705)
 
Tone only and TID machines both suffer with the same inaccuracies due to depth, target orientation, proximity to other targets, soil conditions and other. So whether your thumbing a disc knob or looking at a screen, if your not digging it all it's all the same. That being said, most of the time I don't dig it all. No matter what machine I am using.
 
Thumbing a knob up in discrimination gives information by the way it stops giving signals. Some audio signals break up, some stop abruptly and the best ones fade away.
 
digginLa said:
What do you consider a few inches ClaDog? All of my TID machines have had no problem with coin identities down to 7-8" (DeLeon, Omega, and Xterra 705)
Click to expand...

That's pretty good. I don't trust the tones or TID on anything past 5-6" in my mild soil. Got burned once really bad doing that. Never again.

Glad you are having much better luck!
 
Thanks! Not saying I've never missed any thing but so far other than being fooled by the usual types of targets all of my detectors seem to be fairly accurate.
 
digginLA, which of them three detectors do you like best? Can the Cibola match the 705 and Omega in depth? I want my next detector to be a deep one, and if that means another brand with TID and tones, so be it. I hear the Vaq and Tejon are deep, but air test with any disc set in them are not impressive. No better than most TID detectors in that price range. Turn up the disc on the Tesoro and loose the depth. At least with a TID tone detector I could hunt in all metal and via ID or tones have some idea of if the target is trash or good. Now when I say this, I mean mostly tones.

I typically hunt with my Silver Umax with a disc setting just shy of penny so that I can cherry pick for silver and all the clad that comes with it. If I were to buy a Vaq or Tejon and used this disc setting I would loose a lot of depth. In my thinking If I go with say a F70 or Omega, I can hunt in all metal, get the depth, and make digging decisions based on tones. Any opinions on this from some of you seasoned hunters?
 
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