Auto Sensitivity question. Why not just use manuel sens. like explorer and run as high as you can stand it?

[digitrich]

n/t

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

I had a site I was getting to much EMI and I tried wrapping the five pin in the upper shaft with electrical tape and it seemed to help. But then later my dealer told me he thought that the contact of the metal 5 pin to the interior of the metal upper shaft was for grounding purposes and maybe not a hot idea insulating I kind of think, if it was for a grounding purpose, wouldn't the 5 pin need to touch the metal shaft constantly? When that five pin touches the upper metal shaft, I would think that the entire shaft would become a very large electrical antenna. Who knows?

Minelab uses a standard 5 pin male cable mount connector which is mostly encased in black molded rubber. What you don't see is that there is a black ground wire from the circuit board that is soldered onto one of the cable clamp screw lugs for the 5 pin male connector, that's how they ground the connector itself. Pin 5 is not used and connects to nothing.

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

Are you saying that in ideal conditions you should run the sens and the gain as high as possible? Like, if the ground is pretty good and for instance, you find that you can run the sensitivity at 27 manual and things sound pretty good. Then you find that you can turn the gain on up and it still runs ok, with minimul falsing... is this good? Do you do your best to estimate the maximum depth of good targets and, in the above scenario, set the gain so that targets at that depth give a faint but good signal?

Other than the technical talk... what is your thinking when you get to a new/old site? What do you set and in what order?

I wonder if anyone has tried calling Australia and speaking with Bruce or with some ML engineer about some of these questions. I would be willing to make the call if I had a list of questions.

Julien

A good way to describe my approach is that I will not sacrifice sensitivity for gain. So I start by adjusting my sens, typically around 26-28. I like to get at least that much. If the site conditions allow I will go a bit higher but that is rare. I typically keep my Explorer gain at 7, if I'm not getting much if any high pitch falses I'll bump the gain to 8. I'd go to 10 if the site conditions let me but not at the expense of having to back off the sens.

For a new site I use my same old settings and adjust as required for reasonably stable operation. I first hunt the high traffic areas, either areas where people walked or sat. If the site was detected to death already I typically make a b-line for the last places I think anyone would bother to detect. For example I once dug several large cents in a single day at a city park that has been heavily hunted for 20-30 years. The trick...there were several large cedar trees with low hanging branches. I summised that most detectorists probably walked around those trees. I simply ducked under the branches and bingo like 4 out of 6 of the trees had a large cent just laying there. Another time I got a nice 1800's silver coin about a foot off this 2 foot iron manhole cover. Slopes, especially steep ones are a favorite spot of mine.

 

[MattR]

Sorry mate for being so blunt, but that statement is utter rubbish, and needs to be refuted with some candidness.

The time and effort that has gone into this product can only be anticipated by me, and I find it difficult to tolerate such nonsense being bandied around this forum. The other folk are trying to put forward reasoned arguments, which are acceptable regardless of their absolute accuracy, but your speculation in baseless and insulting to Minelab.

Just for the record. It is reasonable to accept that Sensitivity comes first. That embraces the Auto-trac function and individual channel gains. Then follow those items involved in the Audio menu, which are operatives that subsequently apply to the outcome of prior signal processes.

That is only my opinion, but I hope a little more realistic.

The absolute facts and processes involved are trade secrets, so they will not be revealed by anyone, to others.

As for how you choose to set up your detector, is determined by your experience and intelligent interpretation of trial and error.

That is the whole fun of detecting. It is what makes the difference between the ordinary and the successful detectorist. None of which is possible without putting in the time and hopefully being fortunate to find good sites.

Here in the UK we have a gent called 'John Lynn, alias, The Norfolk Wolf'.

He invented a phrase "The microwave detectorist".

I'll let folk ponder the meaning of that one.....In the mean time, please give Minelab and its staff, credit for what is an excellent detector.

There's an old saying that goes something like this. " You can please most people most of the time, but you can't please all of them all of the time"

So give a little thought to your criticisms, and know that any genuine problems will be attended to.

Please don't blame your detector's restricted depth etc.if local conditions are extreme.

In this Minelab class-room, let's try to learn the fact first, then make judgements..............MattR.UK.

 

[digitrich]

So then, where my SR probe attaches to the 5 pin in the upper shaft, it's OK to wrap that with electrical tape as it is not grounding the machine?

 

[jbow]

I will experiment with my gain. I have been running my ET sens 27 when I can. I have been switching to auto+3 on targets to check. The deeper ones disappear. I have been running my gain on 24 and am still getting a good many falses. I'll try lowering it on the next deeper target to see where it disappears. I found a new place yesterday. I dug a buffalo nickel, of course it had no date. My buddy dug a 1942 quarter and a 1939 Gulf Oil award pin. It is in a great place, maybe 100 yards from the local main rail depot in the 19th century.

Thanks for the tips,

Julien

 

[jbow]

Hi Matt.

I agree it is a great detector and my favorite. I am not complaining I am just saying that I don't think ML knows all the ins and outs of this technology. Andy as much as said so early on, that they released it before they were completely through tweaking. It was time to get a product to market. I have no problem with that, business is business and if it don't make money it cannot sustian itself.

I think some of the secrest of this machine will be discovered by us, the users, that's what I was saying.


Relax a bit,


Julien

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

So then, where my SR probe attaches to the 5 pin in the upper shaft, it's OK to wrap that with electrical tape as it is not grounding the machine?

There would certainly be no harm in wrapping the connector with tape, but probably no benefit either. However, if you improve the Explorer's ground e.g. shove a copper rod in the ground and run a wire to the Explorers ground this improves the Explorers stability by some magnitude in areas of electrical interference. I noticed this building Explorer coils in my shop. Typically the Explorer goes nuts indoors with all the household electrical, until you connect the Explorer to the household ground at which point it runs perfectly stable at relatively high sensitivity settings.

 

[Chris(SoCenWI)]

I noticed that also, that when you ground pin five it will knock all the chattering from EMI out. For a little while I tried pounding a ground stake in at some really noisy but potentially good sites. Problem was need to get real deep to get a decent ground and need a big thick wire for the ground. Just not practical. I have thought about tying into the ground on electric poles while doing street terraces; every pole with a transformer has a grounding rod.

Chris

 

[MattR]

Thanks for your reply Julien. I admit, that there are times when the intended meaning of a statement, can be interpreted differently from that which the writer intended.

To me, I read your words as if they implied that 'Minelab didn't know what they were doing with the very technology that they have created'.

I now suspect that what you actually were wanting to convey, is that Minelab during their prolonged field trials, have apparently not experienced some of the symptoms that new users in various locations, are now complaining about.

Have I got it right this time?

I notice that you support your thoughts with a reference to something Andy has supposedly said.

If any company didn't release a new detector until they had done with tweaking it, then you would never have any new detectors coming onto the market.

Engineer/designers love tweaking things....they'd still be at it even when the last star dimmed.

I have never owned a detector that with hind-sight, wouldn't have been better for an extra 'tweak'.

(That goes for a few girl friends I've known as well)....."C'est la vie"

Seriously though.....Can you be a little more specific about what in your opinion, needs 'tweaking'?

I am interested, because presently I am focusing on trying to find 'challenging' soils upon which I can hopefully 'prove' or 'exercise' the functions, 'Difficult ground' and 'Trash Density'.

On 'normal' soils, my E-Trac performs so well, that I have nothing seriously dis-functional that I can comment on.

Last Sunday I searched a field cleared of potatoes. I did notice erratic signals of 1 - 30~40's indication. (The Fe 1 part being the enigma)

I could not isolate any responsible targets. My manual sens. was 8 above the recommended level (16). When I flicked into Auto, the 'happenings' subsided.

This mostly occurred when the coil was used in a vertical position as I scanned the side of high ridges of soil.....................

I'm sure the Minelab forum monitors would appreciate some constructive description of just what it is that you see as shortcomings in the E-Trac.

By that request, I don't mean your personal preferences, but rather what is 'missing' or ' wrong' that impairs the present functionality of the detector.

Relaxingly yours...........MattR.UK.









'I am just saying that I don't think ML knows all the ins and outs of this technology. Andy as much as said so early on, that they released it before they were completely through tweaking

 

[jbow]

Seriously though.....Can you be a little more specific about what in your opinion, needs 'tweaking'?

Neither did I mean to imply that anything needs tweaking, just that they coame to a point where they decided that they could release it. I don't think that tehere is anything wrong with the E-TRAC. What I am saying is that there are characteristics of it that have yet to be completely understood. I think that ML got it as far as they did and released it, and I am happy with it. I also think that there are things that we, the users, are going to learn about it, things that ML did not yet know. There is nothing wrong with that. It's like the Whites TDI. They designed it as a gold prospecting machine and by their own admission realized just before it's release that it was also a good machine for relics and coins. This could very well have not been discovered until after it's release. It's not wrong in any way, just the way thngs happen with new technology. Sometimes new technology isn't completely understood until it's been out for a bit.

I was not knocking ML at all, I am glad that they got it ready and released it. If anything I meant to defend their silence on some things as they may not know any more than we do. As I said, they certainly know the order of things in the pathway but they may not know all the implications or interactions in the field in different settings and conditions.

J

 

[jbow]

Elaborate please. Do you have a pic or something to show where the ground wire is on the ET/Exp??

J

 

[Chris(SoCenWI)]

It's been awhile since I took mine apart, but seem to remember there is no connection to pin 5 on the coil side of the connector. But the metal connector on the handle side connected to Pin 5 and a wire runs to the PC board in the control. Some time when you are in your house crank the sensitivity up till it goes nuts. Then connect the connector to a good ground. Immediately quiets down the machine.

Chris

 

[digitrich]

So, by the metal of the five pin, touching the upper rod, that doesn't turn that whole aluminum rod into a antenna of sorts, like a ham radio antenna? Sounds like the same question just reworded, doesn't it? So far I got this much, I can wrap the 5 pin in the upper shaft with electrical tape and I won't hurt nothing doing it. But you don't think keeping that five pin's metal parts from touching the inside of the upper aluminum shaft with electrical tape will make any difference? Is that because the electrical tape would not be enough shielding or because the two touching probably doesn't effect the machines "noise" pick up like my antenna theory that I am suggesting?

 

[jbow]

I misunderstood what Andy said in his earlier post. My fault, I lightly read it and remembered it wrong. My apologies to Andy.

I guess there is nothing like clearing up a misunderstanding with another one... my bad.

I love my ET, glad to have it and I wasn't trying to say ML released a product before it was ready... not my point at all.

Now I will stop before I make things worse...

J