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AT Pro question?
- Thread starter Allan
- Start date
Muddyshoes
New member
I dunno. The AT Pro is a different animal. Different than anything I've ever used, which admittedly has been almost all Garretts.
The DD coil was about to drive me insane the first 15-20 hours or so and some targets it still does some really funky stuff. Pinpointing gets easier but was impossible at first. And I often have targets that signal in one direction, but not the other. Then a few seconds later they disappear altogether. I'm gonna attribute that to just not being familiar with the unit enough yet, but each hunt yields a bit more good stuff than before. I've had to pay closer attention to settings than any other detector because it's just so darned sensitive. They recommend 10 hours to get a 'feel' for the detector, but with the AT Pro, I'd say double-that. One thing I've noticed though, at some point it just all comes together quick, so the learning curve is high at first, but then one day, you just have a "Zen" experience with it and it starts working more intuitively.
Also, what part of the world are you in? Perhaps there's another AT Pro user nearby you could go on a hunt with and swap machines for a few hours and see how you do. If you were in Orlando, I'd be happy to do that with you.
- Muddyshoes
The DD coil was about to drive me insane the first 15-20 hours or so and some targets it still does some really funky stuff. Pinpointing gets easier but was impossible at first. And I often have targets that signal in one direction, but not the other. Then a few seconds later they disappear altogether. I'm gonna attribute that to just not being familiar with the unit enough yet, but each hunt yields a bit more good stuff than before. I've had to pay closer attention to settings than any other detector because it's just so darned sensitive. They recommend 10 hours to get a 'feel' for the detector, but with the AT Pro, I'd say double-that. One thing I've noticed though, at some point it just all comes together quick, so the learning curve is high at first, but then one day, you just have a "Zen" experience with it and it starts working more intuitively.
Also, what part of the world are you in? Perhaps there's another AT Pro user nearby you could go on a hunt with and swap machines for a few hours and see how you do. If you were in Orlando, I'd be happy to do that with you.
- Muddyshoes
Muddyshoes said:I dunno. The AT Pro is a different animal. Different than anything I've ever used, which admittedly has been almost all Garretts.
The DD coil was about to drive me insane the first 15-20 hours or so and some targets it still does some really funky stuff. Pinpointing gets easier but was impossible at first. And I often have targets that signal in one direction, but not the other. Then a few seconds later they disappear altogether. I'm gonna attribute that to just not being familiar with the unit enough yet, but each hunt yields a bit more good stuff than before. I've had to pay closer attention to settings than any other detector because it's just so darned sensitive. They recommend 10 hours to get a 'feel' for the detector, but with the AT Pro, I'd say double-that. One thing I've noticed though, at some point it just all comes together quick, so the learning curve is high at first, but then one day, you just have a "Zen" experience with it and it starts working more intuitively.
Also, what part of the world are you in? Perhaps there's another AT Pro user nearby you could go on a hunt with and swap machines for a few hours and see how you do. If you were in Orlando, I'd be happy to do that with you.
- Muddyshoes
Yes the DD coil is very different pinpointing which takes time, coupled with the unit being sensitive makes it even harder? My expierence with some good targets, once in pinpoint mode, I beileve it picks up other items, iron, etc, and doesn't know which item to pinpoint and kind of collectively does them all, leaving you chasing your tail on many digs? Probably just a common trait with this coil, as a completely different make and model might behave the same poinpointing issues with the DD also? Even though the DD coil has a narrow detection cone, mine seems to radiaite outwards on items that are not deep, probably because of sensitivity which also attributes to tough locating at times.
When you say targets that signal in one direction, but not the other than seem to disappear, are you speking of the pinpointing feature only, or actual hits from swinging? I get this a lot from swinging?
I'm from PA, and do not know of anyone who has an AT here?
I noticed in your signature you describe the AT less/love more love/hate I'm guessing there are times you hate it, and love it too? So far just hating mine?
Thanks
Muddyshoes
New member
Oh yeah, it's definitely love/hate. I have about 30-35 hours on mine now. It's definitely gotten better.
When I said that I picked up signals in one direction but not the other, I did mean when I'm swinging. I'll get a signal and do my "X" pattern across.. then I'll move my body 90 degrees and do it again, sometimes it will signal and sometimes it won't. Really strange, but I believe it's because of how sensitive it is meaning it will pickup a paper-thin piece of aluminum foil the size of a thumbtack head and sound very loudly and clearly, something my other detectors would not do. Those kinds of targets can cause you to lose hair, which I would have lost had I not been losing it already.
There are still some signals I just can't seem to pinpoint, and even belltones that seem to 'move' around on me. I wonder if they are false signals but again, I'm still learning. I have tried all the methods of pinpointing that are on the various YouTube videos for this machine and do a zig-zag pinpoint off of the tip of the coil and find that I'm pinpointing pretty quickly and accurately. The PinPoint button that I relied on for every dig before, I now only use about a third of the time. Just don't need it, except for very light or faint signals, or very strong signals, as weird as that sounds.
I have found that in some cases I also need to turn sensitivity down to about 50% for some targets or areas. Of course that makes me panic, but I still get good sensitivity and depth. It's the pro audio that's tricky. I've not had a detector that has 3 different tones before to signal conductivity. And all the blippity-blips of pro mode took me for a loop at the beginning, until I started to be able to differentiate stronger, more consistent and even tones from the weirdness that is every other piece of junk in the ground.
I know the F5 you mentioned is a very popular detector. I've never used one, but it sounds like it acts like what I would call a traditional detector. Still each one has its language...
- Muddyshoes
When I said that I picked up signals in one direction but not the other, I did mean when I'm swinging. I'll get a signal and do my "X" pattern across.. then I'll move my body 90 degrees and do it again, sometimes it will signal and sometimes it won't. Really strange, but I believe it's because of how sensitive it is meaning it will pickup a paper-thin piece of aluminum foil the size of a thumbtack head and sound very loudly and clearly, something my other detectors would not do. Those kinds of targets can cause you to lose hair, which I would have lost had I not been losing it already.
There are still some signals I just can't seem to pinpoint, and even belltones that seem to 'move' around on me. I wonder if they are false signals but again, I'm still learning. I have tried all the methods of pinpointing that are on the various YouTube videos for this machine and do a zig-zag pinpoint off of the tip of the coil and find that I'm pinpointing pretty quickly and accurately. The PinPoint button that I relied on for every dig before, I now only use about a third of the time. Just don't need it, except for very light or faint signals, or very strong signals, as weird as that sounds.
I have found that in some cases I also need to turn sensitivity down to about 50% for some targets or areas. Of course that makes me panic, but I still get good sensitivity and depth. It's the pro audio that's tricky. I've not had a detector that has 3 different tones before to signal conductivity. And all the blippity-blips of pro mode took me for a loop at the beginning, until I started to be able to differentiate stronger, more consistent and even tones from the weirdness that is every other piece of junk in the ground.
I know the F5 you mentioned is a very popular detector. I've never used one, but it sounds like it acts like what I would call a traditional detector. Still each one has its language...
- Muddyshoes
Hi Allan. Most of the time I hunt the parks and in my area the old coins are usually 6+ inches. I run my ATP at Max sensitivity with iron audio on and iron disc set at 25, and no other discrimination. The machine usually ground balances anywhere from 85-92 depending on what park I'm in. So far I would say 90% of the time I get a decent repeatable signal on coins up to the 6-10 inch range, on the deeper side it's a very faint signal but is repeatable. I have dug deeper coins but they are usually a one way signal, but they are clean hits and not broken up. I do dig quite a few iffy signals but 99% of the time they are junk. I really find it amazing the amount of old coins I find with iron or other bits of junk in the hole and they have given such a good clean signal. With all the other machines I've used it's really tough to get a clean signal with other junk in the hole. I also find with the ATP nickels deeper than 5-6 inches start reading with a higher # and tone, I have no idea why but it happens all the time. I have probably dug more buffalo and V-nickels this year with the ATP than the last three years combined. I don't usually post pictures of them much because there usually pretty roached, and don't photograph well. You didn't mention how your machine is set up but I like to run mine as hot as possible and it seems to be working fine at getting those deep targets. Hope this helps.
HH Butch NY
HH Butch NY
Here's a video that shows what I'm talking about. Can't make these claims for the entire video, but the 2nd AT he uses and switches to Standard Zero, is what I'm experiencing. I believe he got 3 Bell Tones on approx. 14 swings on a exposed target not that deep. I know many say use Pro, as I have with headphones and do not notice a difference in depth detection, so used Standard also for the very audible Bell Tone, when it sounds. As pretty much the same scenario, although my quarter was buried at 8in., and I'm lucky to get a Bell Tone once every 7 to 8 swings. Knowing this lead me to believe I'm missing many good targets as this guy also indicates, because I get the same exact scenario, random Bell Tones, numerous times on hunts that will not repeat or mysteriously go away?
I'm coming to the conclusion that my unit is working like the majority of the AT's out there? I'm not doubting many get good repeatable signals at 7in to 10in. plus, but to me you have a rare machine that is as intended to be? I believe the circuitry in these are so finicky they have so many variations of the unit out, as they must be difficult to duplicate? This guy went through 3 units and all basically the same, but others claim to have better ones, which I do not doubt as stated. But from what I'm gathering this is normal as the majority of the units are like this and the deeper ones are a rare gem? Not normal as the Norm, but chances are even if replacing your going to get the same performance, as his 3 different units made no difference? thanks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIZfo2Q-WGY
I'm coming to the conclusion that my unit is working like the majority of the AT's out there? I'm not doubting many get good repeatable signals at 7in to 10in. plus, but to me you have a rare machine that is as intended to be? I believe the circuitry in these are so finicky they have so many variations of the unit out, as they must be difficult to duplicate? This guy went through 3 units and all basically the same, but others claim to have better ones, which I do not doubt as stated. But from what I'm gathering this is normal as the majority of the units are like this and the deeper ones are a rare gem? Not normal as the Norm, but chances are even if replacing your going to get the same performance, as his 3 different units made no difference? thanks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIZfo2Q-WGY
striker1960
New member
I would like to ask . what is your sweep speed? I have seen others with different machines and get a one way sweep tone. I have used the AT Pro since it came out and on a deep target say..7-9" I will slow my sweep down after the first tone and get a both sweep tones. I also have an F5 and sorry to say the F5 will go deeper, But it will not separate the target masking better then the AT Pro. Hope this helps
Jerry-Wi said:I only watched a few minutes of this video..... it would have been helpful to include some audio.
Jerry
I did not produce the video, although there is audio. If you are talking about the audio within the first 3 minutes that you watched when he was detecting a quarter, you're right, it didn't detect it, so no audio.
Allan said:Jerry-Wi said:I only watched a few minutes of this video..... it would have been helpful to include some audio.
Jerry
I did not produce the video, although there is audio. If you are talking about the audio within the first 3 minutes that you watched when he was detecting a quarter, you're right, it didn't detect it, so no audio.
Hi Allan,
Whoever did that is wearing headphones and is talking about what he hears. That is why I bailed after the first minute or so.
Jerry
INCH said:I also bailed to after a few minutes . I keep remebering what Uncle Willy told me about freshly buried coins'It's due to an effect known as Metallurgical Phenomenon and only a scientist can explain it to you." As funny as Uncle Willy can B, it is so true.
But his tagets at the begining were not buried, they were actually exposed within the hole?
Hi Allan,
Whoever did that is wearing headphones and is talking about what he hears. That is why I bailed after the first minute or so.
Jerry
True, but the 2nd and 3rd test he does not have headphones, and it's basically the same test as the first, but with a different unit for each test.
Mike Hillis
Well-known member
The guy in the video appears to be a newbie. He says he is a serious hunter and I'm sure he is, and finds stuff, too. But he doesn't understand his metal detectors at all and therefore can't use them as well as he could, and certainly can't test them correctly.
First, If you have any iron minerals in the ground, a open hole will start masking your target. The reason is that one of the signal characteristics a detector looks at is the "rate of change" of a signal. Ground signals typically have a slow rate of change. Metal objects have fast rate of change as compared to the ground signal. The circuitry is designed to suppress the slow rate of change ground signal and pass the smaller, faster rate of change target signals for more processing. That is how those tiny target signals are picked up out of the much larger ground signal and passed through for additional processing in the metal detector circuitry. That open hole is a disturbance in the ground matrix and is now a large fast rate of change ground signal with another fast rate of change signal inside it. A point is quickly reached where the hole signal overcomes the coin signal and masks it. How many times have you gotten a good repeatable signal, opened the ground with a good plug and lost the signal, only to find it at the bottom with your pinpointer, or, after removing more dirt from the bottom of the hole, found it again with your pin pointer? What about those that disappeared, but when you put the plug back, the signal came back? Those are good examples everyone experiences of ground masking due to the rate of change signal processing metal detectors use.
Second, that large fast rate of change signal cause by the open hole is also being cancelled out by the ground balance circuits. So not only is the hole signal overcoming and masking the coin signal, the detector is also trying cancel out the hole.
No wonder he is getting crappy responses. A true test of a detectors abilities can only be discovered on real targets in undisturbed ground or in a "mature" test bed, or in very neutral un-mineralized soil (the kind you can't ground balance in).
An 11" deep dime in inert neutral soil can easily become a 4" broken signal in an open hole in mineralized ground. Thats why he owns a Etrac. The multifreq units do better in minerals.
HH
Mike
First, If you have any iron minerals in the ground, a open hole will start masking your target. The reason is that one of the signal characteristics a detector looks at is the "rate of change" of a signal. Ground signals typically have a slow rate of change. Metal objects have fast rate of change as compared to the ground signal. The circuitry is designed to suppress the slow rate of change ground signal and pass the smaller, faster rate of change target signals for more processing. That is how those tiny target signals are picked up out of the much larger ground signal and passed through for additional processing in the metal detector circuitry. That open hole is a disturbance in the ground matrix and is now a large fast rate of change ground signal with another fast rate of change signal inside it. A point is quickly reached where the hole signal overcomes the coin signal and masks it. How many times have you gotten a good repeatable signal, opened the ground with a good plug and lost the signal, only to find it at the bottom with your pinpointer, or, after removing more dirt from the bottom of the hole, found it again with your pin pointer? What about those that disappeared, but when you put the plug back, the signal came back? Those are good examples everyone experiences of ground masking due to the rate of change signal processing metal detectors use.
Second, that large fast rate of change signal cause by the open hole is also being cancelled out by the ground balance circuits. So not only is the hole signal overcoming and masking the coin signal, the detector is also trying cancel out the hole.
No wonder he is getting crappy responses. A true test of a detectors abilities can only be discovered on real targets in undisturbed ground or in a "mature" test bed, or in very neutral un-mineralized soil (the kind you can't ground balance in).
An 11" deep dime in inert neutral soil can easily become a 4" broken signal in an open hole in mineralized ground. Thats why he owns a Etrac. The multifreq units do better in minerals.
HH
Mike
Second, that large fast rate of change signal cause by the open hole is also being cancelled out by the ground balance circuits. So not only is the hole signal overcoming and masking the coin signal, the detector is also trying cancel out the hole.
Is this true on detectors you have to manually GB like the AT pro?
Nobody has said it better thus far! What a post!!
If I can get around to it this week (internet has been up and down...down more than up, and slow when it is up) I will post a video from my test area with the ATP. My test garden is 5.5 yrs old right now and has a mix of coins/relics in it. But like you said, real world conditions are best.
If I can get around to it this week (internet has been up and down...down more than up, and slow when it is up) I will post a video from my test area with the ATP. My test garden is 5.5 yrs old right now and has a mix of coins/relics in it. But like you said, real world conditions are best.
Well I will not disclaim facts, or argue them, but these were visual samples as to what I experience with my unit so others could see what I was talking about? As I did state I can't take claims for the entire video, although did point out what I was experiencing was the same as this guy with the second AT, when he's in Standard Zero and gets inconsistent Bell Tones? Okay, the ground was disturbed accounting for this, but I get the same response many times per hunt on undisturbed ground, which leads me to believe I'm missing some good targets the AT just can't lock on? Whereas anything over 6in. in undisturbed ground is just too much for my unit so gives random signals as it's just out of reach for it to lock on?
And all I was basically looking for if you go back and read my first post is a straight up answer "yes your unit appears to be operating normal" or "no your unit definitely has issues"
And other than one or two responses saying their unit hits repeatable signals both ways on undisturbed coins of depths 6in., 7in., 8in., and +, the majority of responses did not answer the question as what they experience?
I'm just trying to see if my unit is similar to most out there? where it would be considered normal? And if that is the case, I'll be putting it up for sale again? I was trying to determine with feedback if it definitely had issues, then would send to Garrett, but did not want to waste my time if it's not going to get better than what I have now? In other words if it goes back, and I get the same results, again, I'll be selling it? Just didn't want to waste time and money shipping and waiting on it, to only end up with the same results?
At this point I'm going to send it back to find out? I'm just not too certain it's going to get better? As I would have thought I would have gotten hundreds of replies stating they get deeper good signals, but believe I only got a couple of these responses? Thanks
And all I was basically looking for if you go back and read my first post is a straight up answer "yes your unit appears to be operating normal" or "no your unit definitely has issues"
And other than one or two responses saying their unit hits repeatable signals both ways on undisturbed coins of depths 6in., 7in., 8in., and +, the majority of responses did not answer the question as what they experience?
I'm just trying to see if my unit is similar to most out there? where it would be considered normal? And if that is the case, I'll be putting it up for sale again? I was trying to determine with feedback if it definitely had issues, then would send to Garrett, but did not want to waste my time if it's not going to get better than what I have now? In other words if it goes back, and I get the same results, again, I'll be selling it? Just didn't want to waste time and money shipping and waiting on it, to only end up with the same results?
At this point I'm going to send it back to find out? I'm just not too certain it's going to get better? As I would have thought I would have gotten hundreds of replies stating they get deeper good signals, but believe I only got a couple of these responses? Thanks
Mike Hillis
Well-known member
Sorry Allen.
I was focused on the video.
Stay out of STD mode unless you are focused on mid tones and are notching out those bell tone categories. The response speed is dismal and the inconsistant bell tones responses are the nature of the beast. I often get the same type of response. Sometimes it is because the coil is too close to the ground and I'm falsing off nearby trash targets. I prefer to hunt with other units if the site requires using the STD mode.
I only like the AT in Pro mode for hunting in lots of iron and for deep coin hunting where you have to loiter and tease up a high tone signal out of the depths and crap. I have gotten good depth in my mineralized ground using the Pro mode and going slow. Slow enough that I get two or three hits on the target. Instead of a nice clear tonal response it will sound like I hit two or three targets. Takes getting used to but I like it.
HH
Mike
I was focused on the video.
Stay out of STD mode unless you are focused on mid tones and are notching out those bell tone categories. The response speed is dismal and the inconsistant bell tones responses are the nature of the beast. I often get the same type of response. Sometimes it is because the coil is too close to the ground and I'm falsing off nearby trash targets. I prefer to hunt with other units if the site requires using the STD mode.
I only like the AT in Pro mode for hunting in lots of iron and for deep coin hunting where you have to loiter and tease up a high tone signal out of the depths and crap. I have gotten good depth in my mineralized ground using the Pro mode and going slow. Slow enough that I get two or three hits on the target. Instead of a nice clear tonal response it will sound like I hit two or three targets. Takes getting used to but I like it.
HH
Mike