Anyone finding gold in parks full of pulltabs?

[Nick A]

In reading the forum I came across several users commenting that tabs read differently from gold. Sounds like the VDIs and sounds are the same, but the graph shows red for the tabs and blue for the gold. If this is consistent and can be duplicated in the ground (not just air test), this is a huge advantage for this machine. With gold at $900/oz it could pay for the detector in no time. I can think of several pull-tab filled parks around here where I am sure there are gold rings, but there's no way you could ever dig all the tabs in these places to find them.

Users, what are you finding?
Are you digging more gold because of this feature?
Have you dug targets that you would not have dug before because you thought they were tabs, but now you can see they are something else?

 

[steve herschbach]

Hi,

Nonsense. For every pulltab made there is a ring somewhere that reads the same.

Yes, I can tell when my V3 is hitting a pulltab. Did it last weekend. Got a reading, told myself "pulltab", dug it up, and it was. And continued digging them. Because sooner or later I will tell myself "pulltab" and dig up a ring.

"there's no way you could ever dig all the tabs in these places to find them"

Why not? I do it. All it takes is time.

You can play the odds. Let's say you determine there are two types of pulltab that make up 75% of the junk at your site. You can ignore those readings and so most of the junk, and go for items that do not read identical to the stuff you avoid.

That can be a fine strategy. But after you are done I'll come along. I do some hunting and think "Hmmm, Nick A was here. He dug everything but pulltab A and pulltab B. Guess I'll dig them up and see what he missed". And I'll probably get gold with my pile of aluminum.

I like pulltabs. If I start hunting and start finding them, I know all is well. It is when I hunt for 15 minutes and can't find any aluminum at all that worries me. No aluminum probably means no gold.

Discrimination is great when you have tons of junk and little time. Try to increase the odds. The farther I have to drive, the more discrimination I use. But the few parks I have close to home I'm slowly cleaning out. They are easy to hit for an hour or two time after time and so there are now ones I can point to and say there is no aluminum - or gold - left in them. Unless it was dropped last weekend.

Steve Herschbach

 

[Nick A]

Steve,
I think you missed my point. I understand about rings and pulltabs, and I dig gold rings ...and pulltabs.

What I was reading and trying to understand was the differences on the red and blue graphs specific to this machine that were discussed. It sounded too good to be true and you are confirming that. Sound like your answer is a flat out, No, you cannot tell the difference between gold and pulltabs by looking at the graphs on this machine.

The parks I am thinking of, seriously, have too many tabs. One was a popular picnic site from the 40's to the present day. I've dug pulltabs of every shape, size and description there, including many of the first types from the early 60's. You reach a point of exhaustion digging tabs here. Other sites offer more of a carrot and stick reward... dig enough tabs (stick) you get a (carrot) ring or other nice keeper. Not so here. I would venture to say you could spend a day here and dig nothing but memorial cents, canslaw, screwcaps and pulltabs. For me, that's all stick, no carrot. The ratio of gold to junk is too high for me. I have other sites producing multiple silver and older coins I'd rather focus that kind of dedication on. Gold is nice, and I'll try for it, but I have my limits.

I understand the concept of "cleaning out" a site as well, and I have pretty well done that at the smaller parks closest to my home.

Digging pulltabs does take time, but my detecting time is limited, so making the best use of my time is important. If I have equipment that gives me an edge and helps me make the most of that time, that's what I'm after. There is a balance of keepers to trash that determine what kind of site makes the best use of my time. In business terms, ROI - return on investment.

So, that said, if the V3 had an edge in sorting through the mess, and could increase my odds of cherry picking the gold (more carrot, less stick), it would be worth it for me to spend some time there. Sounds like this is not the case, so I'll be sticking with the equipment I currently use as I do not see the V3 giving me any other advantages over what I have. Thanks for the response.
-Nick

 

[pastyman]

I wouldn't be too hasty to discount the theory, although I only did a small sample test on some 9, 14 and 18 ct, small thin section rings against pull tabs, what I found was a distinct separation between the 22 and 7.5 freq's in analyze.

Now this was only a very small sample and a very quick test, but, I think there may be some mileage in this, the pull tabs presented a less uniformed sine wave response than any of the rings........so more tests needed....let's wait and see


HH

 

[steve herschbach]

Hi Nick,

Go back and read what I wrote again. Absolutely, with the V3 I can tell you when it is a pulltab. I also happen to wear a ring that reads just like a pulltab.

Sorry I gave you an impression the V3 is not good for cherry picking. It is the best jewelry cherry picker I've ever used. All I was saying was if you cherry pick you will eventually leave gold in the ground. Just my opinion.

Steve Herschbach

 

[stan1234]

I to was thinking the Analyze screen was going to help on ID-ing Pull tabs, but after testing several Gold & Platinum Rings they ID exactly like some pull tabs. So it's back to playing the Odds game, if your hunting anywhere there's Physical Activity and your after GOLD, you better dig all Mid-range VDI's .

skipping just one can cost you.

 

[magic]

I do very little gold hunting. I mainly just look for old coins. Every once in a while, I will dig in the gold range if it sounds good. I never really got much and had almost given up on it because I could care less about gold unless its an old coin. I did however test some of my gold rings against pull tabs on my Vision and watched a few videos. I was in a park a few weeks back and I crossed a tot lot to get to another area and just swung my coil as I was going...32...analyze...7.5 hz highest...pulltab..Did this 3 times then came to a 32 to 35 reading...hit analyze and it had a great looking dip with the 22.5 hz highest arched.. Dug down and got a gold pendant! Now I check all my pulltab readings and I even dig some of them and its always been right so far. I am sure with the right tweeking and someone that wants to just search for gold, the V3 will be unbeatable in recognizing its target!
Will it be 100% accurate?...I dont think anything is! But its close!

 

[tab-nabit]

((quote)) "I like pulltabs. If I start hunting and start finding them, I know all is well. "

Most time I like pull-tabs, at least I know my machine is working - and some of the new square tabs are getting not only different anodized cool colors, but the size and shapes (designs) are starting to litter us with a more variety of targets. I sometimes get in the mood to dig all (+) VDI's - "O" zero on up, then times it's 10 or 12 or 15 on up - to include tabs. But then there are times I do get tired of digging them, and that is happening more often now than in past years. So sometimes I don't want to miss a good target that might be close to a tab, then sometimes I'm just not into it. All depends on time and my mood. But these newer tabs do look more cool than the old one - I seem to take a double look at them...
[attachment 125981 P1000327.JPG] [attachment 125982 P1000328.JPG]

 

[stan1234]

The 2 Largest Pull Tabs pictured above all VDI in the High 40's, but Heavy set Gold/Platinum Ring's also VDI in the High 40's. Normally all Heavy set Rings come with a 1K or larger Diamond.

SO DIG ALL YOUR HIGH 40's VDI numbers. The good thing is the Larger pull tabs are kinda rare, unlike the small ones.

 

[CROCK of COINS]

Stan, Did YOUR "graph" give any better info?

Jerry

 

[stan1234]

The Graph also falls in with the pull Tab's, So if your hunting a sports field or your beach and you hit a good sounding Repeatable target with a VDI 47 and 22.5 KHZ shows High. you better start digging if your after Jewelry. But Large Pull Tabs & Medium size Aluminum bottle caps Fall under all the above, including size and sound. The detector is doing it's job very good. the issue is that those darn Pull Tab's & Caps are the same size, alloy, shape, of the Rings that we are after.

 

[nw1886]

Ran a huge number of rings through testing on the V3 and found that there are several types of styles that read dead on pull tab. Men's rings can read zinc to copper. I'm just going to keep digging it all but...you can ignore the ones that go strong on 7.5. (as in testing, never seen one ring go 7.5). The platinum and palladium stuff isn't going to be dug if you clue into gold too tight. It's all a numbers game I guess. Stayin' totally old school on this and diggin' aluminium for a stretch.

 

[steve herschbach]

Hi,

I have two 14K plain men's bands that hit hardest at 7.5kHz.

Steve Herschbach

 

[22Rimfire]

I just got a V3 saturday after a 35 year layoff from detectoring. found 2 pennies & 2 Quarters in front of the house after getting it home. 2 pennies a nickel & a dime the next day at the park along with scads of deeply buried antique pull tabs. What a blast!

 

[nw1886]

Hi,

I have two 14K plain men's bands that hit hardest at 7.5kHz.

Steve Herschbach

Really! Man, I went through a huge accumulation of rings that were going to "melt" as scrap. (I was sure it would have been fairly comprehensive batch just due to the variety there.) Just goes to show...it is an oversimplification to want to eliminate all pull tabs as rings can have swings in the variables too. I am going to do a long hunt and not going to dig one coin, but only solid classic ring info. It'll just be a numbers game but if my time spent yields more of the yellow? Never had that approach and it will be covering a lot more territory. (I'll have to work hard at leaving my old habits in the truck.)

 

[Willee - Texas]

I like pulltabs. If I start hunting and start finding them, I know all is well. It is when I hunt for 15 minutes and can't find any aluminum at all that worries me. No aluminum probably means no gold.

Steve Herschbach

What worries me is that everyone will wise up to what you have just said.
Nawwww ... wont happen ... LOL

 

[steve herschbach]

Hi Willee,

Went out and hit a soccer field for half an hour last night. Only one pulltab and a few foil hits. Somebody has hammered that one pretty well. I won't go back there in the near future. Maybe in a couple years. There is not any more silver getting dropped but gold does eventually replenish.

Steve Herschbach

 

[Tinfoil]

n/t

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Nick, you say you read of "several users commenting that tabs read differently from gold"

Funny, but I KNEW, when this machine came out, that claims like this would be put forth. It was no different than when the Spectrum (and XLT, etc...) first came out: Persons mused if they could *finally* pass aluminum in favor of gold. Ie.: they reasoned that if they studied the peaks and smears and bars long enough, that there *must* be a difference between foil wads, beaver tails, tabs, and gold. There is even a dealer that makes such claims! ("gold sounds different than aluminum"). A pity the poor newbie who believes this, and goes out knocking himself silly thinking "oh gee, I wish I was that smart, I guess I need XX years more experience to finally 'get it' "

Sure: If you tested a series of tabs and foil wads, and then tested a gold ring, I gaurantee you: the gold ring will measure differently (on the graphs and such) than ALL your sampled aluminum. But SO TOO does each gold ring read differently than each other too! And I gaurantee you that for each gold ring you sample, that I can, given enough time, wad up a ball of foil or bend up a piece of aluminum, in *just* the right way to exactly mimic your gold ring.

The reason people *think* that gold and aluminum read/sound differently, is selective memory. It works like this: each time you/we stop to dig a low conductive target, we look at the graphs, listen to the sounds, and think "aha, this sounds/looks different". But when it turns out to be junk, we forget our premonitions, and say to ourselves "yeah, you know, it did sound kind of junk, now that I think of it". But when we FINALLY dig a gold ring, we only THEN remember our "it sounds/looks different" premonitions, and think "aha! I knew it sounded different!" It's the same psychology for thinking our dreams at night come true the next day: we dream hundreds of random dreams, none of which come true, so we immediately forget them the next morning. But when one coincidentally comes true, THEN we remember the dream, and think "aha! I'm psychic!" It's the same psychology for gold vs aluminum.

Here's what I would suggest, the next time you read someone on a forum tell you that this, or any machine, can tell aluminum vs gold (whether by graphs, sounds, or whatever): Immediately challenge them to go to the nearest inner-city-blighted urban trashy park, and see how long they stick their claims

 

[lytle78]

Gold jewelry is highly variable in composition and therefore VDI response - that's a given. Pull tabs are manufactured items which will probably cluster into a few well defined VDI ranges. If you can "pass" some of these types (even allowing that you will miss any gold which happens to give the same reading, you could then avoid digging a good percentage of the trash. The readings which aren't one of the id's pull tab numbers may very likely be other aluminum trash, but by exclusion of some of the tab-types, have a higher chance (better than the otherwise one-to-several hundred - maybe) chance of being gold.

It's just the reverse of the nickel situation. If you can clearly id nickels because they are uniform, even though they fall within a range which includes trash - you dig more nickles and less trash. If you can clearly id some common pulltabs, you dig less pulltabs and more of the other stuff in the range - which just happens to include most of that highly variable gold.