Anyone else notice that you can almost never get exactly what you want?

[WilliamJB]

Even if money is no object when it comes to electronics it seems that it is almost impossable to get what you want fromt he people you want to give your money too? In fact I have run into this in computers,amature radio,car audio,home aduio and even high end automotive aftermarket. It seems like the companies that make the products with high levels of cutting edge technology and manufactureing process's always miss the boat on content and features and the companies that often do not have the best build quality or do not use the best materials or manufactureing proccess often seem to get much closer to what the market actualy wants!

So Christmas is not that far out and I am looking for a detector that will take care of my needs for at least a few years before I out grow it. The more I am out in the field with old equipment and the more I read online the more I think I want something like a F70,F75 or T2. Now my problem is that I want something like that but from Tesoro. They have all the bit's and pieces so I just cannot understand why they have not come out with a T2,F70,F75 killer. First Tesoror has way too many products that compete with each other for sales. Second they have too many models that are long in the tooth and that are very old school. Third they do not have anything to compete in the price performance catagory of the Garrette Ace 250 or the Fisher F70,F75 and T2. Now maybe it is just me because I have spent so many years inthe automotive and aviation industry but you never want to have your own products competeing with themselfs for sale and market share. Second if you are the leader in an area in this case Surface Mount Design and microprocessor controlled metal detections equipment you would want to play to that strength! As far as I am aware they control all phases of their manufactureing and do it all in house so their really is no reason why they cannot respond quicker and cheaper then most of their competition. Seeing how the trend now is for Microprocessor controlled SMD detectors that operate in the 13Khz freq range and higher with visual target ID,Notch Filters and all auto functions with manual overide of all functions it seems like they would of come back quickly with a product to compete.

In this case They need to thin the heard a bit and make some drassstic model line up changes. The most obvious change is they need to take the current Cortes and change it's name and move the price to around $250 to compete with the Garret Ace 250. They need to take the New Tejohn and put the current graphical target that was part of the Cortes and maybe add a few features like an automatic ground ballance mode and some more notch filtering options and sniff mode etc and they would have something able to compete with the F70,F75,T2 etc....... Some of their older stuff like the Lobo Super Traq,Sand Shark. need a face lift. The Compadre entry level unit needs to come down to about the $99 price range just to get people in the door and familar with the brand.

So in this case it is not about the money it is about the company I want to buy from haveing too many products and none that I really want to buy! Now I am sure I can not be the only one in this boat. I would rather have a lifetime warranty and a product made 100% in the USA by Americans as long as I can have what I want.

Even though I am not some huge button and gizmo type of person these new detectors sure do offer a lot of solid features especialy inthe filtering and discrimanation department. The ability to only look for what you want to look for is huge. Then you have the auto graound ballance. Sure it is nice I bet to have a 3 3/4 turn ground ballance pot if you need it but for the most part I just assoon let the microprocessor do that for me and then only overide it when I think I must! I mean I want to go out and detect stuff not dink with ground ballance every 15 minutes!

Also Tesoro is very slow to return emails. I sent them about 5 and a few weeks latter I got one email back fromt hem out of the 5. So if Tesoror is listening your customers are speaking and giveing you free advice! I noramal get paid for my marketing research.LOL

 

[digitaltim]

I admit their TIDs are lacking in speed and punch, but they're still strong detectors for their size and ease of use.

The other Tesoro models can hang with the best of them.

You can get great depths and fairly accurate discrimination with their non-TIDs.

They're like an extension of your arm and the analogue talks to you in ways digital machines can't mimic.

Easy to learn and fun to master. 9X out of ten I have an idea what the metals composition is with my Silver Umax. The discrimination is very accurate.

I dig more Iron and aluminum with the Cibola and Vaquero, but based on it's apparent size and shape I'll decide whether to dig.

Its hard to get that information out of digital machines.

I think the minelab Explorer series is hard to beat when it comes to depth and TID..... BUT ITS TOO HEAVY for long use. I can cover more ground faster with a Tesoro analogue and with out the aches of the minelab's weight.

All those extra features you want come at a cost of weight, balance, cost, and battery life. The way I see it is," Tesoros are the best value for your dollar."

I can easily cover 5 miles + in a day of detecting and looking for new spots. Thank you again Tesoro.


I understand your points and I would Love to see some thing new from Tesoro too, but what they have now works well.

 

[Bill in Texas]

I have pretty much what I want in a Vaquero. Never cared that much for meters and I have had a few. Gold and silver is what I want to find. One gold ring is worth a bunch of clad coins. Personally I think that the misuse of discriminators has ruined much of the good metal detecting by hiding the very good spots. You know set the discriminator up, ping and dig all the indicator coins or G & S. Of course that makes us use our heads more and the detector less.

 

[rmptr]

Ouch! That probably hurt Tesoro... sell the Cortes at a price to compete with the Ace 250!

Gosh, that's their flagship!

I agree, there seems to be a lap in service duty of their machines which I wouldn't quite agree with, but I am simply not familiar with production economics.

I don't feel visual screens are of any particular benefit, as most expert advice given instructs users to dig the target, regardless.
Never-the-less, they probably boost sales considerably.

I have not a clue how many units of each model Tesoro produces each year, or in each production run.
There is no doubt in my mind it is far less that the First Texas offerings.
...and a huge production run is the only way to be competitive on a cost per unit basis.

JB, you've said you have ham background... as you know, RF is not merely science, there is a certain amount of art involved in it.
The computer software can generate a proper circuit, but some devices are just known to be 'sweet'.

I'm sure First Texas has a marketing plan on the books to 'take over' ALL detector sales, whereas it would be my thought that the Gifford family is content to see a certain amount of growth in their niche market.

Whew! < I > am NOT going to be the one to suggest which Tesoro might be eliminated to condense or make room in the current product line for a new model. That would be like whacking a hornets nest!

Best

 

[Jerry Ga.]

I think what keeps Tesoro with a loyal following is simply a great product that performs as advertised, and the lifetime warranty. The customer service is second to none if a problem does arise. My wish list would be only be with the Tejon. I would like to see an upgrade on this machine consisting of the addition of a fixed GB setting like that on the X-5 and the Minelab advantage. The other upgrade would be a frequency shift switch so that hunting near another Tejon would be possible

 

[tabdog]

n/t

 

[Sven]

I think what keeps Tesoro with a loyal following is simply a great product that performs as advertised, and the lifetime warranty. The customer service is second to none if a problem does arise. My wish list would be only be with the Tejon. I would like to see an upgrade on this machine consisting of the addition of a fixed GB setting like that on the X-5 and the Minelab advantage. The other upgrade would be a frequency shift switch so that hunting near another Tejon would be possible

Fixed GB or auto GB?
If you want to tinker--
A fixed GB shouldn't be much of a problem, and an extra pre-set GB pot inside and a toggle switch on the faceplate that switches from the Adjustable GB pot on the faceplate to the pre adjusted pot inside.
And I think with some toggles and resistors you should be able tap into the disc. circuit and make wide and narrow notches.
The guys at the GeoTech forum might be able to suggest how to add frequency shift.
From reading some of the UK websites, the British like to mod Tesoros.
Picture below was my version of a "Mini Tejon"

 

[WilliamJB]

Well if the the shoe fits!!! I have tested a few Tesoro's out I do not own one though so my experince is short with them. In my mind the only things they have going for them that the other companies do not is that they are 100% American made and manufactured and a family owned business. That will only take you so far. I do not think it is the Cortes's fault that it is their "Flagship" product. I think that if they wanted to do so they could do a lot better then their Cortes which is getting long inthe tooth and doesnot get much praise from it's owner's. I have talked to a lot of Cortes owners and most of them seldom use their Cortes since they find that they have other Tessor's that are faster and produce deeper finds. Really if a Garrette Ace 250 is cheaper then your flagship model and does everything as good or better then your flagship then it is time to go back to the drawing board. This is the great thing about electronics though. Since almost no one opens up the products you can easily have several models based off one design. The cost to manufacture that Cortes has almost nothing to do with it's final MSRP! In fact other then at the extreme from cheapest to most expensive model the price to manufacture each unit is probably with in a few cents as in a few pennies from one model to the next. The priceing is part of the marketing plan and again has little to do with what's under the hood.

They have way too many models that are just dead weight competeing against their own products. I am not saying that all of their products need to have graphical target id but they need to respond to the changeing market. In many ways these guys remind of Detroit automotive industry. You have to have products that compete in both price and performance witht he rest of the market or you lose market share. Some of their products just do not really have a good reason to exhist they are an answere to a problem that never exhisted or they developed a better product to take it's place but kept the old guy around any ways. As it stands right now they can not compete with the Garrett Ace 250 or the F70,F75,T2 or even the Titan 3000XD. You would think that with at least 11 different models they could compete with Fisher,Teknetics and Garrett and 1st Texas Products in terms of turning out a product that is affordable and high performing and that is in demand. Have you guys looked at how many Ace 250,F70's and F75's,T2's and Titan 3000XD's are selling on the internet like mad?????

Last I cheecked buiulding a product that sell's is a good thing!!! Building products that sit on store shelfs for a long time before selling is a bad thing!

 

[nudels]

I'm a ham as well, and I have to say, the sweetest sounding radio I have ever owned was a Hammarlund HQ-180, all analogue, lotsa tubes, and I could cherry pick an audio signal out of thin air that I could not with a digitized rig sitting next to it. So I do agree, there are certain things that really work, and should not be messed with. That said, I still think Tesoro needs to do a refresh of models every 8-10 years or so, even if it is just a special edition run with higher quality or better tolerance components and putting an "S" next to the model name for "SuperDuper", if it adds an inch in the process it'd be worth the extra bump in price.

I emailed them asking about the Sand Shark a number of weeks back and never did get a response, I was asking if they were going to refresh their PI detector. I do own a sandshark, am quite pleased with it's performance, and I am looking forward to the next iteration of PI machine they come up with.

Right now Tesoro know as the old reliable with a lifetime warranty and good quality system. But industries don't just sit still, and if you don't do -something- on a regular basis, eventually all you'll have is OK products that have a great warranty. Eventually, my fear is that they will eventually be remembered as the last old reliable corp with a lifetime warranty, and it's too bad they didn't keep up with the pack, sure do miss them.

Apple literally came back from being amongst the smallest PC corp to the fastest growing one, because they innovated. I'd love to see the same innovation from Tesoro, target the high quality, higher end market, but invent/innovate/offer some really useful or game changing technologies. Target a trouble spot and blow it out of the water, e.g. build a wet sand saltwater machine that will detect < 2mm thick chains. Or a tesoro-slot with a interface to the detector that 3rd party corps could then innovate and add useful features through the interface, e.g. DSP or GPS or computer programmable, etc...

Last thought on this, perhaps Tesoro should ask themselves, what will they do to capture the heart, minds, and technological wants and needs of the next generation of metal detectorists?

 

[digitaltim]

I've also read many complaints about build quality of those detectors you think are better, because they're newer.

Lots of unhappy campers out there........and those expensive detectors don't have the lifetime warranty, like some of them used to. I've been looking at the newer high end Fishers.......the hair on my neck stands up and my gut yells, "no !" I'm sure they're nice, but I'm seriously afraid after reading some user reviews; the hassles some people have endured with software upgrades and faulty chips.

Tesoros have their issues too, but their support is top notch!!! I still have the urge to try some thing new once in a while, but I've become REALLY brand loyal to Tesoro.

Personally I think TID slows you down and just helps you decide whether or not to ignore possible good targets..

The Tesoro Cibola, Vaquero, and Tejon are fairly new. They can hold their own against any other.

You said you haven't spent much time with a Tesoro...... please spend some time with a Silver Umax... throw a 5.75 coil on there.... You might find peace in the lack of bells and whistles......... I think you'll be surprised.

I started with Fisher TID's.......went to Minelab's for a few years... ...I tried a few Garretts and Whites.........I went back and forth between Fishers and Minelabs for nearly 7 years ( 3 Explorers, 1 Sov, Musk Advantage, Nearly all the Fisher CZs and the newer small Fishers...hacked away with some bounty hunters as back ups too) before I tried my first Tesoro....the Vaquero... it was like an awakening... Since then I've been rotating through Tesoros.... I buy one, use it for a while, then sell it.....some times buying the same model again just to rework a previous site.

I like much about many, but overall its hard for me to even consider anything other than Tesoro now..

So what do I think is the ultimate keeper? For me - the Silver Umax..........a permanent addition to my arsenal. Seems crazy when I spent years using $1000 detectors...and now my detector of choice is only $240 brand new w/ lifetime warranty.

That's enough blabbering for one day
Happy hunting.

 

[saginawian]

Wow - Mini Tejon! Wanna sell that? Where can I get one? Ian

 

[saginawian]

They are a good company run by smart people. I wouldn't count them out for a second. They may be just sitting back and watching these other guys with their recalls and design defects - plotting. Think about it, if Tesoro brought out a crappy new detector for the sake of getting one out there - that would kill their reputation. Have they even ever made a bad detector? Point is, they probably don't feel they need to rush it. Even if they don't have new models coming out, they certainly have maintained a cult like following and people love them - including myself. Simply put, they build a quality product. The new X line of detectors all blend together to me, it's impossible to keep them straight, and there are dozens for sale used everywhere. I don't know what that says about them, but eventually these things are going to go for pennies on the dollar. There should be a blue book value price guide for detectors. Resale says alot about detectors. I think tesoro holds their value because they are simply quality fun machines.

My simplistic view is that people are generally displeased with the performance of target ID detectors when they rely on the numbers and pictures in deciding what to dig. Read the reviews of the Cibola and compare that with some of the new high end target ID machines. Seems clear, the cibola's simplistic beep and go performance is hugely popular, while others are disgruntled that a display reading is not accurate.

Ian

 

[SkiWhiz]

Some of you have said - they can not compete with the Garrett Ace 250. You are right and I am glad because the Silver uMax is price only a few $$ more and will blow the Ace out of the water. I am not no pro but have been at this hobby for about 20 years or so, have had many different makes and models and always come back to Tesoro. I had a Ace 250 a few years back & didn't like it at all, got a Silver uMax and loved it. Read all the Ace 250 hype again and said to myself well maybe it was me so I got another Ace 250 - didn't like it at all again. Ordered another Silver uMax and loved it. Sure it would be nice to have another Tesoro model come out, but maybe Tesoro thinks like I do - if it ain't broke don't fix it. We don't need all them touchpads/sounds that sound like an ice cream truck/automatic this pushbutton that/ all we need is a simple machine that does what it should and Tesoro's does just that very well. Their detectors is like Grandma's cooking, no matter how old a recipe she used to make something it always tastes good because she put love into it. Give me my little ole beep & dig detector and let me dig the goodies while all them with the fancy dancy detectors are buisy turning this and setting that. Thanks Tesoro for keeping it real & keeping it simple. Steve.

 

[dan b]

I'll give you a point for your statement that the Garrett is cheaper, but it is not as good or better than the Cortes. I have had both machines, and the Cortes is superior in every way. The Garrett was a toy.


Dan

 

[saginawian]

n/t

 

[SkiWhiz]

I'll give you a point for your statement that the Garrett is cheaper, but it is not as good or better than the Cortes. I have had both machines, and the Cortes is superior in every way. The Garrett was a toy.


Dan

I'm with you Dan. I am not trying to bash the Ace 250 but I have to think that anyone that has or had the Ace 250 and thinks it is all that has not really tried a Tesoro product. There is just no comparison. I just couldn't take the Ace's bell tone sounds (I call it the ice cream truck sounds) & it's delayed recovery speed.Nothing fancy about me, I just bought a Silver Sabre uMax off eBay but I know it will do the job. Steve.

 

[slingshot]

I added a toggle and a "tab check" similar to the Troy and it's like a mini-Tejon.It was a simple add, but I quit using it after Tab and others got me in the ring hunt and back to reality. You can also do it manually-by thumbing-but you only have to make one move to make it work. You just find several tabs (make sure they're in the tab range and not the ones that register nickel). Then, waving them separately in front of the coil (with a hand that has NO jewelry on it) find a point where the majority of tabs "crackel" or break up. Mark this reference point on the dial-it's the only mark you'll EVER need. Then, you just hunt at a setting just below nickels. When you get a signal, MOVE the dial to this preset mark (it's a short distance from just below nickel to "crackel" mark). If the target goes silent-it's in the nickel range. If it "crackels"- it's in the tab range, and if it stays, it's in the coin range. ONE MOVE! Just make sure you move it back before you start hunting again. I enjoy it in high tab areas. And, as a bonus, if the coins are under a tab or mixed w/several nickels it will NOT be masked out!

 

[slingshot]

Forgot to mention that I did this to my Silver umax and it was basically just putting an adjustable resistor at a fixed value in parallel w/the disc pot on the detector- and the toggle was a center-off micro switch that was basically turning on the center leg of one of the two resistors(either the potentiometer on the machine or the one installed parallel). And why will Tesoro still be popular? Well, some square tabs, pencil erasers, light bulb bases, etc. register as nickels on all machines. The greatest majority of rings will register as tabs, square tabs, or foil. In fact, in reading MANY articles, just about any object can register as ANYTHING. When you add masking to that and the fast response time of the Tesoros, tell me WHY I need all that ID help? In fact, looking back over 35 years of metal detecting, I wonder why I have owned over 70 metal detectors! Sometimes I wonder what would be if I had just stuck with that $59 DTEX Tiny Tex BFO metal that looked more like a walking cane than a detector!

 

[Sven]

That Tiny Tex BFO was my third detector after wasting my money on the Relco and Jetco Detectors.
I found tons of coins with that Tiny, my first gold ring and Canadian large cent on Toronto Island in the grass next to a tree by the wtaer edge.

 

[Sven]

It was sold a few years ago, sorry