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Another hunt with my GT still more questions - Still warm out there

One more thing...Was it in this thread that you were saying you are having trouble with targets moving in PP mode? Many use that as a clue as to it being iron. I don't trust that myself and don't use PP mode to PP anyway. It could be a coin but in PP mode the machine is being drawn to nearby iron or something. For that reason I go more on the audio and/or VDI response in terms of if I think it's dig worthy and just PP in discriminate. Many use the center of the coil to do this. I prefer the tip but haven't put in the time to learn using the center much yet myself...but will. If the coin nulls or sounds junk at other angles then PP from the good "coin" side of the target so you are keying in on the potential coin signal and not any masking junk there might be around it.
 
Hi Critter
First and foremost sorry to hear about the Job Loss. I know you said they may of needed someone with more field experience because the company was small and could not afford to take the time to train someone. So sorry but good luck on getting the right job for you and the company.

Ok on the elusive Silver time. Well I think you hit a couple of good points. First and foremost I will say the guy is a CZ Ninja. He has 40 years of experience and I think 10 with the CZ. It was also tuned by Tom so we have a Ninja with a sharpened sword vs white belt beginner. I like to go out when he does because I know he will find silver and I can learn by cross checking a few.

I am really thinking three issues were having the biggest impact:

1. I did not check from all angles.
2. I think I was running to hot - I had volume and sensitivity maxed
3. I was having some EMI issues that I did not fix till later when I switched to Channel one and the GT really quieted down.

So knowing that and that I could hit a wheatie on edge at plus 8 I am pretty sure it is me that needs tweaking which I am doing by hunting and asking questions. Every time out she (the GT) is making more and more sense.

Thanks for all the help and again good luck on the job hunt
 
Thanks. Did you check the target from the same angle as him? That alone can be the difference. Several times I've checked my Etrac friend's target and it was a null. Only when I got to the same position and angle he was could I see the coin signal in there, and then I'd ask him to work around the target too and he's always say "null city" if it was a null for him just like it was for me. Not a dime's worth of difference between both machines on all checked targets. I give a good portion of that credit to the 12x10 coil. I feel it brings the Sovereign into 2012 and puts it right up there evenly matched with the latest and greatest of machines.

If you had the sensitivity maxed that could be the issue too. Most prefer band 2. Not just for the chart matching aspect of mid conductors, but I have read some in the past (digging through old threads) that said band 2 seemed to give a bit better depth/performance when they tested that when the GT first came out. Before switching to band I always try lowering sensitivity. If it gets down past say 3 or 4PM on the dial only then will I consider trying band 1, but instead of doing that I'll usually switch to Auto in then it's smooth as silk. Once you get past about 4 PM or so Auto gets pretty much the same depth I think. That's a good thing to test. Try burying a coin deep enough to where Auto just gets it still and then switch over to manual and see how high it has to go to also get it. Use that as a rule of thumb...If sensitivity gets to that point then might as well flip to Auto because it will be even more stable. Auto can change it's depth from site to site based on EMI or ground condition, though, but in general then you'll know.

I have read some say in the past that too high (but still stable) of sensitivity can make a deep coin null in certain soils. I think Gunnar found that out with the WOT coil. I can't remember but I think I also had that happen with the 15x12 when testing coins and playing with sensitivity. Either way, I at least remember that too high (but stable) would degrade the target ID and make it seem like junk. I feel this is more of an issue with bigger coils as they drink in too much ground matrix with a higher sens setting. Still, even the 10" coil might do that. Don't be afraid to turn down sensitivity lower than max stable and see if it gets deeper. You'll be shocked how deep this machine goes even with it turned down to say 3PM. Also, set it pointing to around 2 to 2:30 PM, right so the dial is pointing at the "C" letter in noise cancel on the face plate. I've found that spot to be a sweet spot with outstanding depth and yet silk smoother stability at some sites, and have I think read of others say the same thing. Next time you check a deep target of his try that spot for sure when lowering sensitivity and see how it acts.

EDIT: I see you said you were still in band 2 and having EMI issues. Yep, that alone could have been the issue, but my biggest guess was not using the same angle or he was using a smaller coil?
 
Hi Critter, thanks will for sure try the sweet spot. By the way he was using a 10.5 coil - his coil was bigger then mine and concentric not DD. I wish those SEF 12x10 would get in at Kellyco. Sounds like a great coil. Been tempted to get the S-12 from Sunray. Thought about the WOT but not sure I need that but may be nice this winter when I go to Tampa. Really looking forward to a good day of Beach hunting with the GT. should be fun even if all I find is some bobby pins and some clad.

I am liking the GT what I am learning is that setup becomes very important when going for those deep elusive targets. This site I hunt has proven to have some deep silver. Minimum of 8 but a lot is deeper like 10 plus. That coin I missed was right at 8 but later he pulled a 10.5 inch out - did not get to check that one. So going deep and understanding what she is telling me at depth will be very important.

Bryanna
 
Well if it's a 10.5" coil then that's out as an answer of coil size. But I see you said it's a concentric. That could be the answer. At the tail end of the detection field a concentric (in general, not always) tends to have a more sharper "point" to it's field where it can more easily separate targets from any angle. However, that's only where they (in general, not a hard fast rule) have a slight advantage over a DD in terms of separation- at the very tip of the field. But, a DD will (in general again, not hard and fast rules for every coil) have better left/right separation over the entire length of the detection field from shallow to deep. Also, while the DD might be more blunt (being a line from tip to tail of the coil in the center) at the very tip, it still can do just as well at separation at the very tip...It's just that you have to be at the right angle. In other words, if the coin and iron are in line with each other and the DD detection line, then they are both in the field of the coil. If you move 90 degrees, however, now just the coin is in the DD's line and not the nail. See what I mean? For that reason I don't even feel a concentric has an advantage at seperation even at it's sharpest point at the tip of the field. It does in a way, but the DD can do just as good at it's tip if you work your way around the target. In general the left/right seperation of a DD coil is much better than a concentric width wise. Beyond all that, DD's have more uniform depth across the entire tip to tail length of the coil, where as a concentric *tends* to have it's best depth right at the very center of the coil and so overlapping sweeps most say is much more critical on a concentric. Some say that at least on some concentrics the deepest part of the field is only about the size of a quarter or perhaps a half dollar or so, where as on a DD it's pretty uniform from tip to tail along the DD line. DD's still will have a slight depth increase in the very center of the coil, but it's not as much of an issue to consider with sweeping as it is on concentrics. Again, in general. I know some argue that the concentric and DD fields can mimic each other more than people suspect on some coils, so please don't beat me up over these general statements. For sure get your hands on a 12x10 if you can because I feel as excellent as the 10" Tornado is, the 12x10 to me has better depth, separation, stability, and seems to hit coins on edge even harder. All these aspects are awesome on the 10" Tornado so I'm not knocking it. Best stock DD coil I've ever used. I just feel the 12x10 sets the bar a bit higher even.

For sure setup is critical for max depth. Like I said, try maxing out sensitivity to where it's just a tad unstable and hunt for a while. Then try dropping it down to say 11, noon, or 2 or 3PM or something and hunt that way. You might find depending on the soil at a site that you seem to get deeper, or at least better target ID, with a lower than max stable setting. Some people have found that to be true, and it's not just a Sovereign thing. It's all about the soil. Even on my Explorers it was wierd but I could hunt with sensitivity right at the edge of stability and find nothing. Then lower it a good bit and hunt the same exact small patch of ground from the exact same angle and start popping silvers. But, not saying that max stable isn't the best depth for most people in most soils. That's always been a general rule of thumb for all detectors so it must have a lot of merit. I would say though that as you play with sensitivity trying changing your sweep speed. Many say the higher you ride it on the Sovereign the even slower you need to sweep. The threshold dropping out too much is a key way to tell if you are sweeping to fast for the given sensitivity level. Also, try finding a super deep target and then play with sensitivity and your general long sweep speed over it (don't wiggle). See which speed and sensitivity setting seems to give you the hardest/best initial "hit" on the target while doing a long general search mode sweep. Try then to hunt at that speed and sensitivity setting at that particular site the rest of the day. Also, when a deep one is found, also trying short sweeping or wiggling over it and play with sensitivity. That alone might clue you off to the right sensitivity setting for max depth if the general hunting sweep doesn't. Notice how stable/easy the ID gets at a certain setting and how good the audio gets. That's probably the best way to adjust if you *suspect* a lower than max stable setting *might* be in order for soil at a certain site.

Keep up the good work. Like I said, be prepared to hate this machine off and on for a while until you can understand what she is saying to you. Also, I look at the Sovereign this way...It's a VERY powerful deep machine. As good as it gets in terms of rough depth power on any machine. It just has more basic controls than some other machines. Not a big deal, because it's easy to set and forget and hunt with less hassle or wondering in the back of your mind what settings on a computerized machine *might* improve performance for a site. I like the no worries/no hassle type of freedom of mind hunting with a Sovereign gives me on most days. It's like an old hot rod with a huge engine. Sure, some newer car might be just as fast, but then you don't have to be a computer expert to fix that old hot rod where as the new car needs a lot of tweaking or specialized knowledge. Not that I'm opposed to computer controls. Miss that on some days and looking at a computer screen on say my Explorers or my QXT Pro. It's just rare to need the odd tweak, and tweaking the wrong way could cause you depth. Far less can go wrong with a machine as simple as the Sovereign. Simply set the sensitivity and threshold, zero our the notch and discrimination, and unleash it on a site. :thumbup:
 
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