Another hunt with my GT still more questions - Still warm out there

[Bryannagirl]

OK still warm but a little cooler - Funny how when its been 70 the mid 80s seems pretty warm, but when it has been a 100 plus high 80s feel just fine. So being it is not 100 degrees and I told my self I need more learning time on the GT I took her out to go "Sweating with the Oldies" .

I hunted about 4 hours mostly in the sun. I took some water along and drank most of it. So I was sweating and really hoping to find something old. Since I am still learning my detector I tended to dig anything that was repeatable and I was not sure was something else like sprinkler heads, or near surface pop/beer cans.

Still learning my sounds. The mid tones all kind of sound the same to me and the higher tones are harder to tell apart as well. I spent time in the Navy and lost a lot of my higher freq hearing so may have something to do with my trouble differentiating the tones. I do have the meter and after getting a good tone will sometimes check the meter to see what it says. The numbers are still a learning curve for me as well. I know 180 is high conductor i.e. coin. The rest is a guess other then nickels which I remembered just in case.

So here are some of the things I tried:

In Threshold on:
Auto Sensitivity - Vol Max - Threshold bee buzz
Sensitivity 12 0'clock - Vol Max - Threshold bee buzz

In Silent Search:
Auto Senstivity - Vol Max - Threshold bee buzz just before switching to silent search
Sensitivity 12 0'clock - Vol Max - Threshold bee buzz just before switching to silent search

About half of my hunt was with Threshold on. The other half was silent search. True be told both work pretty well. It is kind of nice to be able go silent every once in while, but sometimes you wonder if the detector is working after you had been walking a while and not hearing anything. - that was not very often but it did happen a few times.

My challenges:

Iffy targets that are one way hit but do sound good and null and iron the other way. My issue is pinpointing a one way hit is not easy. So I just walked on but because of the iron null made me wonder if I was getting some masking of a nice old target.
Learning to trust the tones backed by trusting the ID. Dug a lot of targets I was pretty sure were trash and guess what they were. All the good targets I have dug have sounded good and ID good.

My Results:

4 bullets - they sound good and ID good
1 1949 nickel at 7 to 8 inches - good round sounding mid tone and the mid 145 to 146 for the number.
Trash - can slaw and some pull tabs. One small piece of can slaw that sounded pretty good was about 9 inches It did ID as not good but I could tell it was deep so dug just in case.

End Result:

A lot of Sweat and one Oldie - the 1949 Nickel (well two oldies but we will not go there)

Bryanna

 

[bootyhoundpa]

take your time,,sounds like you are getting the hang of it.....often times where i hunt and what i expect to find will dictate how crazy i get at chasing the iffy targets..... the beach or old homested farm fields are great places to learn the gt ,somewhere where you can dig to your hearts content for me really speeded up the learning process..that way you can hear and see for yourself what the gt is acually trying to tell you....i have a 550 meter and have only used it a few times..i think the 180 meter is better...you are supposed to calibrate the 180 meter to read 180 on a quarter prior to every use if memory serves me correct and pennies and dimes will read slightly under that... however when at the beach i ussually dig all repeatable signals no matter how sick they sound as i have found much small gold this way that others have missed...if park hunting i am usually very very selective as to which signals i chase as i know i have a responsibility to leave the grass in the same shape i found it.... eventually as you get more comfortable you will find it more practical to set you sensetivity rather than keep it in auto....i usually start with sensetivity at about 12 oclock and back it down a little until unit is stable and not falsing so much on iron.... another tip you might want to try if you have not already is take some of your gold jewelry out in the back yard and do some air tests...youll be suprtsed at how varied your vdi numbers and tones can be... and one last thought-realize that no matter how long a person has been metal detecting no one person knows everything....remain teachable and observant and before long you will be teaching others ...ive seen many a newby come up with a great idea or tip ive never thought of...thats kinda why we have this think tank--its the easiest way to learn... good luck....

 

[johnmusk]

Sounds like you're already doing pretty good, as locating nickles can be a pain in itself. Targets that only hit one way are usually junk for me, but can be a coin on edge, either way it is most likely going to be difficult to pinpoint. I will often abandon a target when I dig down and hear nothing from my pin pointer, because I don't like digging to China for an iffy signal...but it depends on where you are. The only advice I would give for learning the Sov would be hit the dirt when it's moist (or the beach anytime) and maybe try an area which is not hard-packed and trampled. The loose soil better illustrates the sounds of a deep vs. a shallow target...i.e. soft vs. loud.

 

[Bryannagirl]

Thanks everyone, the supportive words mean a lot. I started my journey with a whites Eagle Spectrum, followed by a DFX then a Minelab Safari and now the GT. I am enjoying the GT even though I have meter this is a machine that is helping me develop some fundamentals that will serve me well no matter what I hunt with. No meter no depth gauge just tones and threshold between me and my treasure. I am really enjoying learning the GT it is simple and also very complex. Still not finding my Silver but will be patient and will keep learning and I know the will come.

Bryanna

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Bryanna,no silver?OK,go for a hunt in your favorite silver park you worked out.Only dig 180-179s,sensitivity nine o clock,volume max,recheck faint targets with a scribble motion, 3-4 hour hunt.This usually snares a silver coin or two. Good Luck Ron

 

[Bryannagirl]

Thanks Ron hard to rest digging the other stuff since I still learning and experimenting but for a nice silver I think I could do that. So sensitivity and volume are about max. The place I am hunting is a 100 year old Golf Course that just turned into a park and had the fences pulled down this spring. Lots of ground to cover and one guy with a CZ3d has got about 100 out so far so I know they are there just need to find them. When you say scribble you are talking about the Sovereign wiggle I assume.

Thanks Bryanna

Bryanna,no silver?OK,go for a hunt in your favorite silver park you worked out.Only dig 180-179s,sensitivity nine o clock,volume max,recheck faint targets with a scribble motion, 3-4 hour hunt.This usually snares a silver coin or two. Good Luck Ron

 

[Maxwedge]

CANS USUALLY HIT 180 AND ARE LOUD. YOUR 180 COINS ON TOP ARE LOUD TOO. IF YOU GET A LOUD SIGNAL LIKE THAT, YOU CAN TEST IT BY RAISING THE DETECTOR UP IN THE AIR AND IT WILL STILL BE LOUD UP QUITE A FEW INCHES. IF IT DOES THAT, IT IS USUALLY A CAN. IF THE VOLUME OF THE SIGNAL GETS QUIETER PRETTY QUICK, GO BACK AND DIG IT. IT'S USUALLY A COIN. A QUARTER OR FIFTY CENT PIECE WILL BLAST YOUR VOLUME IF IT'S PRETTY CLOSE TO THE TOP. NICKLES CAN RUN FROM 138 ON UP TO YOUR NUMBER ON THE ONE YOU FOUND. NICKELS HAVE A UNIQUE SOUND. WHEN I FIRST GOT MY GT, I USED THE PINPOINT SWITCH, BUT LATER STARTED GETTING THE SIGNAL AND MOVING THE COIL SIDE TO SIDE AND BACKING IT UP. YOU CAN JUST MOVE IT A LITTLE BIT SIDE TO SIDE WITH THE STRONG SIGNAL AND BACK IT UP AND WHEN THE SIGNAL STOPS, THE TARGET IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE COIL. TAKE A COIN ON TOP AND WATCH IT WHEN DOING THIS AND YOU WILL SEE IT'S PRETTY ACCURATE. SOMETIMES THEY TARGET IS OFF SOME IF IT'S DEEPER, BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU REALLY NEED AN S-1 PROBE FOR. IT WILL SAVE YOU A BUNCH OF TIME FINDING TARGETS. SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE REALLY LEARNING QUICKLY. BE PATIENT. THE GT IS GREAT. BULLETS AND LEAD SINKERS ALWAYS SOUND GOOD, AND ANY SOUND LIKE THAT COULD BE GOLD. GOLD, DEPENDING ON THE SIZE AND QUALITY, CAN COME FROM 118, POSSIBLY LESS, ON UP TO 180. HH-MARK

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Bryanna,all targets a quick check by moving the coil around to find the strongest signal and a slight wiggle,this helps to pinpoint and lock on your ID number at the same time.Very simple automatic response once learned.Good Luck

 

[JimmyCT]

Bryanna,

When I speak of a "one-way" signal, what I am stating is that when I swing to the left and then coming back swinging to the right I get (for instance: a high tone / 180). So in both directions does the signal tell me it may be something good. Remember the videos you watched? Think about how it made the high tone over the coin but when I turned 90 degrees I had to "work it" pretty hard to get the signal to come up. One signal I had to do baby little sweeps back and forth and I was able to isolate the target. The other signal I could get real well to come up to 180 but when I turned 90 degrees, the signal broke up on me.


As far as pinpointing, I had a difficult time myself. If it is REALLY iffy, I will sometimes switch to all-metal and use pinpoint. Sometimes the target will "walk" on me and is now 2 inches away.Then I will scan over where it is pinpointing to (back in disc) and it just nulls. This I have found to be iron targets. However, when I flip into all-metal / pinpoint and the target stays still, I start digging. Keep practicing and it will come to you. If you walk away wondering, go back and dig it up. I have done that only to go back to the target and sometimes it was a coin severely masked and most of the time it was iron. I didn't want to take the chance and go home and then I am lying in bed wondering, "should I have just dug that signal?" Hang in there as once you learn what the GT is telling you, then the finds will follow. - Jim





My challenges:

Iffy targets that are one way hit but do sound good and null and iron the other way. My issue is pinpointing a one way hit is not easy. So I just walked on but because of the iron null made me wonder if I was getting some masking of a nice old target.
Learning to trust the tones backed by trusting the ID. Dug a lot of targets I was pretty sure were trash and guess what they were. All the good targets I have dug have sounded good and ID good.

 

[Bryannagirl]

Yep! Those are the ones. Time and experience. Did the pinpoint thing today and she jumped three or four inches from where I thought it was in discriminate. Went back to discrim changed directions a couple times got a few good beeps but when I pinpointed she jumped. I was tempted to dig the iron and go at it again. Next time I think I will do that.

Was with a CZ3d guy who had me check a silver he thought he had found. I checked the spot and all I got was null. Was feeling pretty frustrated when I watched him dig an 8 inch silver dime. So latter got a hit the sounded good going north and south but nothing when I went east and west. Sounded deep so I dug. Wiggled her up to about 176 on the meter before I dug. I was down 8 inches and nothing. Propointer was not chirping but when I swung the GT back over the hole she said she is still down there took another shovel full of dirt, got back in the hole and on the side, just little more then 8 inches Down, was a wheatie on edge stuck to the side of the hole. So my spirits lifted a little knowing my GT could hit a wheatie on edge at 8 plus inches. I think his CZ was able to see past the iron better then my GT. Maybe if I had worked the hole more I would of found a sweet spot but did not want to hold him up to much.

I still have no Silver but got three wheaties all around 8 inches or more, a 1909, a 1920 - the one on edge, and one I can not tell the date but she is a wheatie.

Bryanna

Bryanna,

When I speak of a "one-way" signal, what I am stating is that when I swing to the left and then coming back swinging to the right I get (for instance: a high tone / 180). So in both directions does the signal tell me it may be something good. Remember the videos you watched? Think about how it made the high tone over the coin but when I turned 90 degrees I had to "work it" pretty hard to get the signal to come up. One signal I had to do baby little sweeps back and forth and I was able to isolate the target. The other signal I could get real well to come up to 180 but when I turned 90 degrees, the signal broke up on me.


As far as pinpointing, I had a difficult time myself. If it is REALLY iffy, I will sometimes switch to all-metal and use pinpoint. Sometimes the target will "walk" on me and is now 2 inches away.Then I will scan over where it is pinpointing to (back in disc) and it just nulls. This I have found to be iron targets. However, when I flip into all-metal / pinpoint and the target stays still, I start digging. Keep practicing and it will come to you. If you walk away wondering, go back and dig it up. I have done that only to go back to the target and sometimes it was a coin severely masked and most of the time it was iron. I didn't want to take the chance and go home and then I am lying in bed wondering, "should I have just dug that signal?" Hang in there as once you learn what the GT is telling you, then the finds will follow. - Jim





My challenges:

Iffy targets that are one way hit but do sound good and null and iron the other way. My issue is pinpointing a one way hit is not easy. So I just walked on but because of the iron null made me wonder if I was getting some masking of a nice old target.
Learning to trust the tones backed by trusting the ID. Dug a lot of targets I was pretty sure were trash and guess what they were. All the good targets I have dug have sounded good and ID good.

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Bryanna,could be a target too close to a iron target.With the three wheat's you found you're on the right track.You stay with the Sovereign a while longer and you will find the next cross checks on a target will have different results.Good Luck Ron

 

[GunnarMN]

I would not max out the volume, try it at 3:00 position it can make it a bit eratic , sounding on to high, it is a good thing to bury a coin at 6" 8" 10" and really work with the settings to see how to tune it in . and i would dig the mid tones to find gold , as the only gold ring I ever found was with the GT and it gave a lower mid tone like a can slaw, but was a 14 k gold ring in edge, gladd i dug it

 

[Bryannagirl]

Hi Ron,
Next to iron is what I figured. Just frustrating because he could see it and I could not. Not sure what could of done different other then go all metal but as it was I am pretty sure I would of walked right over it and just seen it as iron.

Bryanna

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Bryanna in most circumstances the performance of the Sovereign exceeds the CZ,iron can be a problem for both these detectors.The Sovereign hates iron and the CZ has an iron appetite,most of the time it works in favor of the Sovereign this time a plus for the CZ.Thanks Ron

 

[Critterhunter]

Can slaw has never really been a problem for me. Work your way around the target. Can slaw is usually odd in size so it will change by say 3 digits or more depending on which direction you sweep.

My biggest advice to you and everybody with ANY detector is don't just dig. Before you do that, sweep all the way around the target. Soak in the sound and how the VDI acts/changes all the way around it. Once you have that in your memory only then dig it to see what it is. That's when you'll learn how various targets react. There are "subtle" differences in tone or VDI for various targets, good and trash. Learn those to "split hairs" on them.

I will dig a one way coin hit, whether it nulls or sounds like junk all the rest of the way around it. In particular a masked coin *sometimes* will sound "perfect" from one tight spot. it will be so good and "easy" from that direction that you will just "know" it's a coin, even if it's junk or nulls the rest of the way around it. No ghostly or warbly sound from that one spot, nor any hard "climbing" to 180. You'll know it when you see it. Not saying those are all coins, and not saying masked coins are going to be perfect from that spot either, but I am saying that more often than not a target that is easy "coin" from one tight spot is in fact a coin, no matter how bad it sounds the rest of the way around it or even if those directions are a complete null.

Only way to learn those, or other targets for that matter, is to DIG. But make sure to soak in the sound and VDI from all directions before you do dig. Memorize the qualities. Can't tell you how many times I dug a good target that sounded strange or junky or such from certain directions and was p*ssed at myself that I didn't memorize the VDI/audio response for next time. THAT is the biggest teacher IMHO.

 

[Ism]

I trust you have iron mask "on"? It makes a big difference after 6 inches depth so if it was off, you will miss some of those near iron targets. It will false a lot more but you will learn to differentiate.

 

[Rick(ND)]

As I have said many times is the best way to get to know the Sovereigns well is by actual experience on actual in ground targets. It is normal to get fooled at time with iron, if not you wont be finding those targets others have missed. I dig very little iron and can tell the difference by how it sounds and how it acts, but sometimes it just sounds too good not to dig to see what it is. I have also dug many coins with nail touching them as I learn this from my experience and by digging those I wasn't 100% it wasn't iron. Soon it become so easy to tell the good one from a bad signals as you will tell when you hear the right tone. To begin with like many thought it was a big mistake getting a Sovereign and when everything started to click for me I was learning more and more about the Sovereign by just using it.
By using it you will see some signals will only be a slight threshold change when going real slow as these are deeper ones and the ID may vary quite a bit, so you try your best to go over just that target and try to get those numbers as high as you can. If it seem to stay in one group of numbers so that is the ID of that target. If you swing too far off the target you will hear other targets close to it. Iron will move when going over it in disc and will be a one way hit in all metal. Then there is those that seem to repeat 2 ways going all around the target at different angle in the same place, but if you go to pinpoint it will move, I then have to go back to disc and use the tip of the coil to get the best signal in 2 different angles to find the target as there is iron close by.
My setting are volume max, threshold with a slight hum, disc all the way counter clockwise, notch the same with the sensitivity at around 11 o'clock position, band 2 and the iron mask on and the track/lock/pinpoint in the pinpoint position as it is only active in all metal so when I go to pinpoint the target I have to just switch to all metal and I will be in the pinpoint mode.
Take a little time in actual hunting to get to know your Sovereign, so don't give up as it will be worth the time you spent learning it when you are picking out the older and deeper coins out of areas you are told are cleaned out.

Good Luck!!

Rick

 

[Bryannagirl]

Thanks Rick - I learn and get more comfortable every time I go hunting. I will dig things I know are not good just to confirm what I have learned. I have been running about just as you discribed. Was getting a lot of falsing today and ended up switching to noise channel #1 and boy did that quite her down. Must of been some emI in the area. After that I started picking the wheaties out of the ground - one was 8 inches on edge a 1929.

Also wondered if backing off the sensitivity would of helped with the maxed dime I could not read, but my CZ3D buddy could. Maybe my power was up so high I was turning mild mannered Clark Kent (iron) into superman(or super masker). Does that make any sense is that possible. Maybe cutting back would of done better then turning her up.

Bryanna

 

[Rick(ND)]

Sounds like you got the right idea and the patience to become great with this detector. On the band 1 or 2 I find 2 works better on the GT, but if it gets too much electrical interference I too will switch to band 1 until I am out of that area.
Was there iron below the coin you couldn't get?? If there was than that is why the CZ could see it better as they love iron. I find when I go sweep slower I will see deeper coins as it give the detector time to see it, but if it seems like it is a solid null even going super slow I then will lower my sensitivity no lower than 1 o'clock position or go to auto.
This was back a few years ago now, but had the local Fisher dealer go on a hunt with me with his CZ7a and we did some signal comparison after he was digging iron while I was not with the Sovereign and I was digging coins. I got a very weak signal that read 179-180 if I wiggles the coil just right. He tried it and said he got it too barely, but it was iron he said, when dug it was a deep barber dime. He get a real deep signal and said it was a deep coin, but being so deep he thought my Sovereign would not see it. I got no signal on it and it was more of a null, so I went to all metal and could get a weak signal, but not in disc so we dug it to see what it was. It was a rusty nail that was deep. That is why I say you may not of got the signal if there was iron around it or was not going slow enough to hear it while his CZ may have been seeing the iron and coin and showing it a coin as it seen the iron more.

 

[Critterhunter]

Since I've been canned I've got time for one of my signature long posts... Put that scroll bar to good use and skip this...

Bryannagirl, a friend has a CZ6a. I haven't hunted with him since I got my GT but over the years I had a QXT and then a QXT Pro. With both of these Quantums I would often compare signals to his CZ6a on undug targets in the field. *In my soil*, which tends to range from low to higher minerals at various sites, the QXT and Pro model were deeper on a undug silver dime. Often he'd check what I suspected was a silver dime and he'd get an iron or pull tab signal from it. These were coins at about the max depth of the Quantum in my soil- about 7.5" for a silver dime. He also got fooled much more than me on iron and other junk that he suspected was a coin. I have heard others say something about the CZ's that I agree with. After about 6" in depth they seem to be running in all metal. They don't seem to be able to ID targets properly at depths beyond 6" *in my soil* and so he'd often dig nails and other junk that fooled him as perhaps being a coin. For that reason alone (the seemingly "all metal" mode beyond about 6" of the CZ) it might have seen the coin better as it wasn't trying to ignore the iron, but as said above that has it's drawbacks too. He spends much more time getting frustrated with junk than I did on my Quantums or do on my GT.

Now, with the GT, I can tell you this is the deepest machine I've ever owned or compared to with other machines friends are using in the field. Well, the exception being the Etrac. It seems with the 12x10 coil on my GT both machines are matched in both depth and unmasking ability on all the undug targets we have compared. I'm sure my prior Explorers would have done just as well had they been using a good coil such as the Pro Coil or the 12x10 because the various renditions of the 10" Explorer coils were just terrible (IMHO) in my soil. A friend's SE with the Pro Coil does much better than my EIIs did with the old 10" coil and so it seems evenly matched to the Etrac (this other friend has owned both), and I've heard others say a Pro Coil or 12x10 on the EII is like getting a new machine in both depth and separation and stability. Coils can make a big difference on these Minelabs IMO.

Way off topic, sorry...As far as the CZ hitting that coin better. Two factors come to mind...One, what size coil was he using as I'm sure you were using the stock 10" Tornado? If he was using a smaller coil that could have made all the difference. If he was using as big of a coil as you then I bet with the 12x10 on your GT you would have done better than you did because it's separation is outstanding. Thirdly, did you have Iron Mask ON? With it on you'll do better at pulling coin signals out of iron. I've dug more coins in iron with this machine than any other, and that's even compared to fast machines I owned. Fourthly, were you sweeping from the same exact angle as him over it? Badly masked coins will often only go "COIN" from one tight specific spot of an angle. With my Etrac friend and I he's had me check some coin signals that were a complete null for both of us all the way around them but in one tight specific spot, and in that spot coil placement was still super critical for both of us. A hair too forward or back and it was null city *on both machines*. Also, did you slow down your sweep over it to give the machine time to reset? Also, did you wiggle around in there a bit fast to see if you could pull the ID out? Lastly, your question about sensitivity maybe being too high...Yes, that could be. Some say that too high of sensitivity will cause a coin to null due only to overload from seeing too much ground "stew". In that line of thinking too, too high of sensitivity could have been sucking in iron deeper but beside the coin and so you were blanking on the iron and not recovering fast enough to see the coin. Just a pure depth thing. The CZ might not have been seeing as deep as the GT so when swept off to the side he wasn't hitting the iron and so was ready to see the coin when the coil moved over it.

But, beyond all that, there are just some coins in certain situations that one machine will see better than another. In another masking situation the Iron Mask feature of the GT might do better where the CZ won't. Also, different coils have different eddy currents to them just like a fingerprint. For that reason alone I've even read of odd situations where a cheap $400 machine would hit a coin masked or on edge better than a top end detector. I believe it might have something to do with the unique pattern of the eddy currents the coil's magnetic field is generating. One coil might hit that coin on edge or masked just right while another machine (even a high end one) just doesn't "nick" that coin for some reason. You might find days where the CZ won't see a masked or on edge coin that the GT will and there is no rhyme or reason to it, because it might be as badly masked as the one the GT had trouble with but this time it did a better job at seeing it, especially with the unique abilities (IMHO) of Iron Mask to pull coins out of iron that my fast machines just didn't do as well at.

Finally, remember that you are learning this machine yet. Coil use, sensitivity level, (you did have discrimination and notch at zero, right?), how fast and in what way you are working your coil...All these things can be an issue. Probably though, it was just one of those deals where the CZ could hit that coin a certain way due to it's coil's unique field, where as on other days it might be the other way around. Next time if that happens and you get a null try lowering sensitivity or even raising it if you think it's too low perhaps. Also make sure to sweep from the same exact angle as him and with the coil in the same position forward/backward wise...not too far forward or back as you could be creeping up on iron he's not. If he's got a smaller coil that might be the deal breaker right there and you're just not going to see it with a 10" coil, but I'd sure love to see that same signal compared if you had a 12x10 on your GT. It's field is very sharp. Not that the 10" Tornado isn't a great coil. Best DD coil I've ever used in terms of a stock coil. The 12x10 is just better in depth, unmasking, separation, and seems to hit coins on edge even harder than the already excellent ability of that with the GT and stock coil. The Sovereign seems to love coins on edge.