Angles question

[Ronstar]

I had a nagging question in my mind after trying to work a steep embankment last year so thought I would try an experiment at home.

There are a couple steep embankments that we have around where we have permission to hunt. Some are mowed and kept the other is more like out in the forest. On the lawn style, which is guessing 35-45 degrees, I had target hit. My first thought was lay the coil flat to the surface to pinpoint and thought I had a good reading, nope, nothing, ended up I was above the target. Next hit I kept the coil horizontal and dug, nope, I ended up below the target. I stopped detecting the slope because I didnt want to overly dig the manicured lawn.

So today I thought its time to figure this out. I have a 45 degree embankment at the top of my driveway that would easy to use (basically I can stand in the road and reach out to complete this test. I used a clad quarter and inserted it into the embankment at a guessed 6”. I know where it is, right? Used the SEF 12x10 coil and kept the coil flat to the angle. Pinpoint was slightly high as before. Next I kept the coil horizontal to the hill and pinpoint was slightly low. Experiment seems repeatable. Just as a thought I switched to the factory 5” coil and pinpointing was pretty much spot on.

So can anyone explain? If a coin is dropped on such an incline does the coin sink vertical to the incline or does it sink at some corresponding angle? Why is the small coil more accurate at locating, narrower “beam” length/width?
My initial thought was if the coil is flat to the angle to dig straight in. If horizontal on the angle then to dig straight down.

Just curious now…….

 

[hawgdawg]

I asked this same question a few years back ,, possibly on another forum,,cant remember,, but never got a definitive answer . Hopefully someone can answer.

 

[Elmy]

I had a nagging question in my mind after trying to work a steep embankment last year so thought I would try an experiment at home.

There are a couple steep embankments that we have around where we have permission to hunt. Some are mowed and kept the other is more like out in the forest. On the lawn style, which is guessing 35-45 degrees, I had target hit. My first thought was lay the coil flat to the surface to pinpoint and thought I had a good reading, nope, nothing, ended up I was above the target. Next hit I kept the coil horizontal and dug, nope, I ended up below the target. I stopped detecting the slope because I didnt want to overly dig the manicured lawn.

So today I thought its time to figure this out. I have a 45 degree embankment at the top of my driveway that would easy to use (basically I can stand in the road and reach out to complete this test. I used a clad quarter and inserted it into the embankment at a guessed 6”. I know where it is, right? Used the SEF 12x10 coil and kept the coil flat to the angle. Pinpoint was slightly high as before. Next I kept the coil horizontal to the hill and pinpoint was slightly low. Experiment seems repeatable. Just as a thought I switched to the factory 5” coil and pinpointing was pretty much spot on.

So can anyone explain? If a coin is dropped on such an incline does the coin sink vertical to the incline or does it sink at some corresponding angle? Why is the small coil more accurate at locating, narrower “beam” length/width?
My initial thought was if the coil is flat to the angle to dig straight in. If horizontal on the angle then to dig straight down.

Just curious now…….

try a de-tune of the target by hitting the pinpoint exactly over the target on the 45 degree embankment.....I told you this before, you said it didn't do anything for you on your fisher....

 

[WV62]

For sure de-tune all your targets with the F75 that will put you spot on. I love this process it rally makes PP'ing easy.

If you think about it when you put a 5" coil on the stick how far can you be off your target, it is right under that 5" coil.

De-Tune is the way to PP with the F75,

Ron in WV

 

[BigTony]

Flat to the angle is the WTG. Remember coins will be deeper because of the angle. Go slow and listen to the quiet hits.
Tony

 

[Ronstar]

Following the owners manual it says to start the coil to the side and bring it over the target while trigger engaged. Then release and move coil again and target should be directly under the coil (I’m going from memory so a little slack here if not word for word). Is that not essentially de-tuning?
The question remains, any “facts” as to how a coin/ring descends into the ground on a slope? I swear if Elmy says depends……

 

[Elmy]

Following the owners manual it says to start the coil to the side and bring it over the target while trigger engaged. Then release and move coil again and target should be directly under the coil (I’m going from memory so a little slack here if not word for word). Is that not essentially de-tuning?
The question remains, any “facts” as to how a coin/ring descends into the ground on a slope? I swear if Elmy says depends……

I am not going to answer that question again.....so do you think I am that stupid ???????
just how do you de-tune your pinpointer ???????????????????????? directly over the target !!!!!!~!!CXTDRJU%((*G !!!!!!!!!

 

[still looking 52]

Guys, I found this really simple way of pinpointing that works pretty good, I don't detune, I just stay in the same pattern as I'm hunting in, then I just use find the East/West target sound first then I lay down a plastic poker chip for that location then I move my sweep pattern North/South over the placed poker chip to find the exact location.
The only time I miss is when the coin is laying tilted, the more the tilt the more I miss but still the best method I've found.

 

[BigTony]

Still, that’s a good idea, I’ll try it because I hate to dig next to where I just dug because the target wasn’t centered.
Tony

 

[Ronstar]

Elmy,
Sounds like I hit a nerve……. Garrett carrot wont do anything when 6” deep, not even on max. Im not talking about handheld, rather the detectors pinpoint mode. Its only on inclines that I have difficulty and I dont hunt those much or for any length of time cuz of my lower back and hip discomforts. It sounds like the other guys know what I’m talking about so will try that idea and see if that helps.

SL52, I do have bright orange golf tees that I carry in my backpack. Think I might try those as I could see chips sliding down the grass etc and the tees push in pull out easily.

 

[WV62]

Did you ever wonder how a sidewalk sinks into the ground, thank about it.

Ron in WV

 

[Elmy]

Elmy,
Sounds like I hit a nerve……. Garrett carrot wont do anything when 6” deep, not even on max. Im not talking about handheld, rather the detectors pinpoint mode. Its only on inclines that I have difficulty and I dont hunt those much or for any length of time cuz of my lower back and hip discomforts. It sounds like the other guys know what I’m talking about so will try that idea and see if that helps.

SL52, I do have bright orange golf tees that I carry in my backpack. Think I might try those as I could see chips sliding down the grass etc and the tees push in pull out easily.

On a metal detector ,when we switch quickly between all-metal -> discriminate -> all-metal, what is happening is more like we are almost ground balancing to the ground + target. In other words, the sensitivity to the target is dramatically reduced. Thus, rather than picking up the target from almost anywhere in the detection cone, we need to sweep over the target with the "sweet spot" of the coil to be able to pick it up.
So you can either reduce your detection field by hitting the pinpoint button over what you believe is the target ..precisely locating it or do the golf tee thing....your choice....same as using your 5 inch coil...your pinpointer , all pinpointers, will de-tune near a target if you turn then off and back on near the target. How to find ear ring backs is done this way or any small item you can't seem to find.

Do you really think coins will sink at an angle ? Or wonder if coins really sink or get covered up ?

 

[Elmy]

On a metal detector ,when we switch quickly between all-metal -> discriminate -> all-metal, what is happening is more like we are almost ground balancing to the ground + target. In other words, the sensitivity to the target is dramatically reduced. Thus, rather than picking up the target from almost anywhere in the detection cone, we need to sweep over the target with the "sweet spot" of the coil to be able to pick it up.
So you can either reduce your detection field by hitting the pinpoint button over what you believe is the target ..precisely locating it or do the golf tee thing....your choice....same as using your 5 inch coil...your pinpointer , all pinpointers, will de-tune near a target if you turn then off and back on near the target. How to find ear ring backs is done this way or any small item you can't seem to find.

Do you really think coins will sink at an angle ? Or wonder if coins really sink or get covered up ?

OVER THE Target...HIT PINPOINT....
I am going to close that "YOU KNOW ELMY" and "DEPENDS" book for you .....you won't have to listen to it anymore.

 

[Ronstar]

Seeing the video now makes sense. I could not visualize what you were saying because it was essentially the same thing the manual was saying. It was the same but different as my granddaughter says…..

 

[fwcrawford]

I have hunted very steep inclines and all I do is X the target from two angles keeping the coil parallel to the ground, then dig at an angle.
Works for me.
In my opinion gravity is still playing a roll, so I would say the coin is still sinking straight down.

 

[Ronstar]

Tried the tricks in the video. Closer on the angles than I was so maybe fine tuning on my part but noticed another anomaly. A couple times when I pulled the trigger the sound for the target went away completely. This usually happens occasionally when coin is nearly surface so thinking its like an overload protection? Usually turn the unit off/on and back to normal. Either way, I'm getting this figured out.

 

[WV62]

You can De-Tune the target completely away, if you are right over it and hit de-tune again you can just make it not detect the target at all. So just take it down until you still getting a signal but it is small and in the center of the coil.

Now if your target is a coin on edge you will get 2 targets about 6" apart. If you dig one hole and don't fine the target try just taking out the dirt between the 2 signals. My brother hit one like that a year or so back and we dug the first signal and nothing. He was thinking he had quarter coin spill. I move over to the second signal and PP it and then I had the thought, coin on edge, while he was watching I took the center between the 2 PP's and there was the edge of his one quarter sticking straight up. He is a believer now.

I would suggest you take a quarter out and stick it on edge in the ground and test this out. All this stuff we are telling you is from experience, I have been running the F75 since 2010 and de-tuning if you do it right you can take you target down to the center of any coil.

Just trying to help,

Ron in WV

 

[wildwilly]

The only angles around her are my roof top. This area is flat as a fritter the ole' timers used to say.

 

[Ronstar]

So many things to try and so little time. WV62, does this work on angles as that was my original question….. that was the trouble I’ve been experiencing. I did not know you could detune the target completely out but that explains a could targets.

 

[BigTony]

So many things to try and so little time. WV62, does this work on angles as that was my original question….. that was the trouble I’ve been experiencing. I did not know you could detune the target completely out but that explains a could targets.

Ron star, I learned the hard way that detune will miss targets, but that’s ok, they weren’t really good coins just normal stuff.
Tony