Added Depth

[Who's your Daddy]

Hi All, I've been using the V3 in the Salt lake City area for a few months now and can rarely achieve a target signals past 4 inches. The deepest signal I ever got just happened to be the first thing I dug with the V3 and it was a 1948 dime at approx. 6, maybe 7 inches.

It was soon discovered by the great employees (Carl) at White's that I had a faulty 10" DD coil which he/they promptly exchanged for me. So I figured that had to be the problem, right???? I'm sure the majority of the problem lies with the operator but I just don't feel as though I'm obtaining the depth this machine claims to achieve right out of the box. Case in point, I'll detect with someone who uses a different brand detector and they will pick up signals that I can't.

Here is what I'm generally forced to use to obtain any consistency with the machine.

Program: Coin and Jewelery (with following chances.)
RX gain: 2-8, (Generally 5)
Discrimination: 80
All Metal: 50
Ground Filter: 10 HZ High sometimes 12Hz High
Pinpoint: Ratchet On
Tone ID's: On
Bottlecap Rej: 2
Hot Rock: -10
Freq. Offset: +1

I've tried other coils (4x6, 6x10 and 950) and I'm currently using the 10"DD

Thanks
Anthony

 

[Downdeep]

Using a higher ground filter will cost you depth without a doubt. How about your recovery speed? A fast recovery speed sacrifices depth also. Playing with my settings, the 10" deep penny in my yard does not read at all on the higher ground filter settings. Why do you need to adjust your ground filter up? You've said "sometimes as high as 12". I'm just curious as that should only deal with your sweep speed. You show your RX gain settings. Is that what the unit recommends or are those settings you must use for stability? I am generally able to run the rx gain a few notches higher than recommended.

Out of curiosity again, have you tried burying a quarter at different depths and tried adjusting the machine to allow it to pick up that quarter? In true hunt scenarios, you may not have any targets that are actually that deep. I know that when I bury a quarter for testing my machine can pick it up easily at a foot, though under normal hunt circumstances I'm generally not getting anything over 6-8", That tells me that it just isn't there. On rare occasions I find targets that deep, but when I do, the V3 picks them up quite well.

How is the ground around Salt Lake City? High mineralization will have an adverse effect on depth also.

 

[Who's your Daddy]

The ground out here is very mineralized and I was told to try a higher ground filter to compensate for the mineralization. I will bump it back down to 10 HZ High and see if that helps any???

The unit will recommend an RX gain as high as 15 but for stability reasons it won't let me set it that high.

I also prefer a quicker sweep speed, about a 1.5 sec from side to side and thought the higher ground filter would allow me that luxury?? I have not messed with the recovery speed much, what would you recommend??? I do not think I've ever made any adjustments to the factory sweep speed settings??? I Can't remember???

I have not buried or set up a test garden yet but I have asked people I hunt with to let me know when they get a hit on what they believe is a deep target so I can go over it as well. In MOST cases the V3 will not pick up the signal of the target in question?????

 

[Rob (IL)]

You said;
You can rarely achieve a target signals past 4 inches.
Maybe there are no targets deeper than 4 inches where you are hunting.

The deepest signal I ever got just happened to be the first thing I dug with the V3 and it was a 1948 dime at approx. 6, maybe 7 inches.
This seems to say the detector will reach at least 6". Did you dig it with the new coil? How do you know the new coil is good?

Case in point, I'll detect with someone who uses a different brand detector and they will pick up signals that I can't.
What detector were they using? How deep were their finds? What did they find?

Here is what I'm generally forced to use to obtain any consistency with the machine.
Program: Coin and Jewelery (with following chances.)
RX gain: 2-8, (Generally 5)
Discrimination: 80
All Metal: 50
Ground Filter: 10 HZ High sometimes 12Hz High
Pinpoint: Ratchet On
Tone ID's: On
Bottlecap Rej: 2
Hot Rock: -10
Freq. Offset: +1

Are you running the recommended RX?
Why isn't your discrimination higher than 80?
If you are running 10HZ or 12HZ you need to be swinging fast and have to lower your recovery time. I get deeper with a longer recovery time, a higher sensitivity, and a slower swing. I also seem to get deeper using the 5 HZ bands.

Why are you using the -10 hot rock setting?

Give us the information and we will see what we can do to help. Rob

I've tried other coils (4x6, 6x10 and 950) and I'm currently using the 10"DD

You posted again before I did.

 

[njgreg]

This is starting to remind me of those DFX forums I used to go to. So many programs that don't really amount to much. you want deep try mixed mode pro and slow down and listen to what the machine is telling you. Some minor changes that you can make like the ground filter to 5hz and pump up the recovery delay a little. Some guys will tell you to change every setting on the map. These are the same guys who swing their machines like golf clubs. You have to slow down. If you found a dime at six or seven inches then you are doing something right.

 

[Rob (IL)]

You posted again while I was writing. Your coil is not the problem because of thr suggested RX 15 and you had the same problem with all your coils.

Could you still answer this?Case in point, I'll detect with someone who uses a different brand detector and they will pick up signals that I can't.
What detector were they using? How deep were their finds? What did they find?

I can't post a link to another forum here but there is a guy in Colorado doing great with the 5 band and a real slow recovery swing. He's still running more Disc than you. Rob

 

[cloudbuster]

hi there !!! having any bottlecap reject on wont help matters. try running in 5mhz high, also a track offset of +1 or +2 may help if you have difficult soil also set your recovery to 55-65 this is a good benchmark to work from . also try running in single frequency @ 2.5khz (you will need to adjust your RX though) this may help in giving a good starting point and may also help hitting deeper in heavily mineralized soil. Yhe V3 is a difficult beast to tame and can produce very fickled results from day to day.

regards rob

 

[Who's your Daddy]

Could you still answer this?Case in point, I'll detect with someone who uses a different brand detector and they will pick up signals that I can't.
What detector were they using? How deep were their finds? What did they find?

The person I was hunting with was using an SE Pro and found two Indian head pennies at about 9"-10" (an 1891 and a 1901 I believe) I've had the chance to detect 4 homes that are 100 plus years old recently, there had to be something deeper than 4 inches. I found a total of 7 wheat pennies on those hunts with the oldest being a 1932.

 

[Who's your Daddy]

Are you running the recommended RX?
Why isn't your discrimination higher than 80?
If you are running 10HZ or 12HZ you need to be swinging fast and have to lower your recovery time. I get deeper with a longer recovery time, a higher sensitivity, and a slower swing. I also seem to get deeper using the 5 HZ bands

More answers to your questions:

I can not run the RX at the recommended setting and still keep the unit stable. Same with the Disc. setting. I can not seam to get above 80 on the Disc. setting even with a low RX value
I was using 10HZ High 95 percent of the time due to the high ground minerals in my area and the speed I swing the detector.

 

[Larry (IL)]

I suggest you restore your favorite program to the factory setting and the only adjustments should be to gain stability.....Gain and sensitivity. Use that program to learn and enjoy the V3. Take an afternoon to plant a test garden and learn coil control. You will be surprised at how just varying your swing speed will change how deep it gets. Leave the advanced programs alone until after you learn the basic ones. After you learn the basics, then you can start tweaking some of the other adjustments, ONE AT A TIME. I would start with the filters, giving 5 Hz a chance in your ground. I'm in high mineralization and 5 Hz works best for me in spite of what the manual says. I don't know how much experience you have, but learning basic metal detecting is FAR more important than what machine you are using. An experienced hunter with a basic detector will almost always out hunt a less experienced hunter with the best equipment on the market. An experienced hunter with a great detector is almost unbeatable. If you hunt with someone like that, use that to your advantage and learn technique from him. I have seen it happen hundreds of times in my 30 years of experience. I wouldn't be so concerned with depth right away either. Deep hunting comes with knowledge of the hobby and the equipment you are using, both takes time to learn.

 

[Who's your Daddy]

I agree with the V3 being very fickle. There are days it works great, minus the depth issues and other days I just cant get the unit stable. Makes no sense to me.

I've never tried the 5Hz because the books says to use the higher HZ for mineralized ground.

I set the Hot Rock at -10 because I was getting a lot of +95 signals, setting the unit at -10 seamed to eliminate this issue for the most part.

When you suggest setting my recovery delay to 55-65 you are referring to the the search recovery that is factory set at 80 in the coins and jewelery program, right???

 

[Larry (IL)]

I would stick with the 80, 65 only if you are in the heaviest of trash IMHO.

 

[Who's your Daddy]

Hey Larry good to here from you again, hope all is well. I've been metal detecting for a few years, never on a daily basis though. I started with a DFX and had numerous problems with it, which made it a little hard to figure out if it was me or the detector. White's was always there to teach, repair or replace the problem. Just a great company to deal with.
Had the DFX serviced, got rid of it and I'm now using the V3. Heard great things about it and figured I would try to learn it and and do away with any bad habits I had formed with the DFX. The day I got my V3 I read through the manual charged up the batteries and took it for a test spin in the Coin and Jewelery program. detected my buddies yard that had been hit HARD by a number of detectors. Seamed to work fine right out of the box (found1948 dime) but then developed a coil issue that I did not figure out right away and just kept detecting, trying my hardest to figure out why it didn't seamed to be working right. (getting more and more confused and thinking about switching to another brand) Then I decided to go see Carl in person when I went home to Oregon to visit and go to an Oregon Duck game. Carl discovered I had a faulty coil, switched it out with a different one and upgraded the software on the "Vision" for me. Carl is a great guy to deal with!!!

I've taken the unit out to a previous location (the Great Salt Lake) where it did not work at all, would not pick up targets or stabilize and it now worked. I thought great let's go out and hit some yards. Like you suggested, I placed the unit in a restored version of Coins and Jewelery and maxed out the RX and Disc, setting as high as I could go and maintain a stable machine, starting with the RX first. I hunted like this for a while and actually did fairly well. better than I had ever done with the DFX. I was hitting better spots as well, you know what they say it's all about the location!!!! I mainly used my DFX in parks tyring to get a feel for it. Now I was working more yards. Found some silver, a few cheap rings, wheat's, my first V and Buffalo nickels and a gold bracelet. My buddy how ever was doing just as well with his DFX and digger deeper targets. That's what got me to start making some changes and posting threads to figure out if I could make a few simple adjustments to the Coin and Jewelry program to boost my depth.

Thanks for the advice
Anthony

 

[BHNugget]

Anthony,give the 5 band filter with a very slow swing a shot.The Black Hills,where I live were once twice thier height they now are (average 5000-6000 ft) and the erosion from them over millions of years reaches into Nebraska, 600 ft deep.Very mineralized stuff.I have no problems running the 5 band filter in the foothills in most places and prefer it actually.

 

[Larry (IL)]

It sounds like you have a good grasp on things and if the detector is OK, it has to be technique Anthony. Sure wish I was closer to help you out. I would have to stick with my basic advice, factory presets, learning the basics, good headphones, go slow, depend more on the audio, not so much on the visual, dig the maybes, make a test garden, and don't worry about the deep ones. Finding targets below the 6-7 inch mark is a whole new ballgame. If you have any kind of repeatable deep target, dig it and see what it is, junky sounding or not. You will quickly learn what is deep junk and what could be more likely a keeper. Digging the deep targets is more of a gut feeling than anything else. The first thing to go when deep hunting is reliable visual cues and then the audio. The rules for deep hunting are pretty basic until you get to the "advanced" level. 1: The deep target should repeat in more than one direction, even if it just a beep every other swing or so. 2: The target should pinpoint directly under where you found it. If it pinpoints off to the side, it is most likely a rusty nail, you are detecting a concentrated electromagnetic signal off of the point and pinpointing the nail itself. 3: Do the "wiggle" directly over the target, IE....short fast swings. A good target will sound better and junk will sound junkier in most cases. Good luck Anthony.

 

[Who's your Daddy]

Thanks guys, I am going out Monday and will keep you posted. I will definitely try the 5 HZ.

Do you suggest 5 HZ Band pass or High????

 

[Larry (IL)]

I use the high but I have had feedback that the band pass is quiter. Try them both.

 

[Who's your Daddy]

Well I took out the "Vision" today and it gave me fits!!!!!!!!!!! Very, very noisy!!!!!! I could not get the RX gain past 2 (even when the unit recommended 15) no matter what ground filter I used. I tweaked the frequency and ground tracking offsets to get the machine as quite as I could and bump the AC sens. to 75.

Here is what I ended up with by the end of the day to obtain any stability
Factory Coin and Jewelery with following adjustments:


10" DD coil
5.0 HZ High ground filter
Recovery Delay: 60
SAT 20
RX Gain: 1 sometimes 2
AC Sens: 75
DC Sens: 55
Freq. Offset: -1

Ground Phase probe reading was +90
Recommended RX was 15
Sweep speed was about 1" from side to side

 

[njgreg]

May I suggest the Ace 250.

 

[ak_1234]

+90? This is the VDI reading at the top of the ground probe screen? You should never get a +90 reading for ground VDI. If it's a phase on one of the frequencies, that's in the realm of possibility for salt water with very, very, very little mineralization. But it looks like you're reading a VDI number. Or was it really -90? If it really was +90, then you need to send the machine back for recalibration. But, before that happens, please verify...

Just to make sure, when you get the ground info, you're zooming the tracking live control?

If so, when you zoom the live control, menu/tab to the zero button. With the loop in the air away from any metal or ground (very important), press the enter to let the detector capture the system offsets. Then lower the loop to the ground and read the phases. What are the phase readings for the 3 frequencies?