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2 tone ferrous?

D

DJB50156

New member
Hello, I tried using the 2 tone ferrous setting at a pounded park near me. All the signals sound the same. None higher or lower.
What am I doing wrong?
My current settings are:
deep off
fast on
ground difficult
volume gain 28
threshold pitch 28
To these settings I changed the Number of tones from Multi to 2, and the Sounds from Conductive to Ferrous.
I must be missing something.
Thanks for any information you can give me. BTW I have had my e-trac for 2 months.
Dan.
 
Sounds to me as if you had been running with discrimination (as in a Coin Program), and didn't open up the screen when you switched to 2-tone Ferrous. If you had the ferrous targets discriminated out by a Coin Program, then only switched the tones and the number of tones, you're still discriminating out some of the targets. Most of which would be those to provide the ferrous tone. Now when you sweep, you're getting a high tone on the conductive targets and nulling on the ferrous targets. That would make it sound as if all targets were providing the same tone. If this is the case, all you need to do now is switch to Quick Mask and open up the screen. JMHO HH Randy
 
Ahh,
you may want to lower your Threshold pitch a tad. You may be high enough to hide your higher pitch.
Just a thought,
Mark
 
mpostma said:
Ahh,
you may want to lower your Threshold pitch a tad. You may be high enough to hide your higher pitch.
Just a thought,
Mark
Click to expand...
I agree,the treshold pitch has to be lowered to around 1-4 to get them higher pitched tones.imo.
 
Digger said:
Sounds to me as if you had been running with discrimination (as in a Coin Program), and didn't open up the screen when you switched to 2-tone Ferrous. If you had the ferrous targets discriminated out by a Coin Program, then only switched the tones and the number of tones, you're still discriminating out some of the targets. Most of which would be those to provide the ferrous tone. Now when you sweep, you're getting a high tone on the conductive targets and nulling on the ferrous targets. That would make it sound as if all targets were providing the same tone. If this is the case, all you need to do now is switch to Quick Mask and open up the screen. JMHO HH Randy
Click to expand...

Guess I need to read these posts a bit more carefully. Meaning reading the whole thing in detail. I did switch the tones from multi to 2 and the other to ferrous, but didn't switch to Quick Mask. I never read about switching to Quick Mask when using 2 tone ferrous. I did see the 'open up the screen" but didn't know what it meant until now. Am still a newbie. I haven't had a chance to try it yet except for a test with a piece of iron and a quarter in my front yard. I got the low tone on the iron and a high one on the quarter. Can't wait to try it in the field. I know a place that has given up silver but is so cluttered with iron that the machine is null most of the time. Thanks for reading and HH, Dan.
 
I am addressing the possibility of "Thresh Hold Audio Tone" masking "Target Audio Tones". The Use of variable tone change (Pitch) with the thresh hold operates at a certain frequency as so does the different target tones. There is no crossing into the same thresh hold frequency with the target frequency ever. If you raise the Thresh Hold frequency, you also raise the target frequency automatically. This is the reasoning for this, to eliminate that very possibly. Does not matter if you use 1,2,4 or multi tones, FE or CO. I actually use a high thresh hold tone and when i do hit a silver coin it really makes it sing out. I also use only a very mild thresh hold volume (Just loud enough for me to hear it) to hear the the better audio volume of targets. I am also a true believer that a slight thresh hold audio volume is much more sensitive than a silent search or one with no thresh hold audio as some people like to use. It's best for the "User" to adjust the thresh hold Frequency (Tone Pitch) to better suite their hearing abilities without the fear of the thresh hold tone and target tone sharing the same tone pitch. I hope this helps to clarify the possibility's. :wave:
 
If you open up the screen in ferrous/2-tone you will not benefit from it. If there is a good target that is pretty well masked by iron, you will only hear the iron. You need to run a little disc, QM up to maybe 28 or better yet use the relic pattern and expand it slightly higher around 48 to 50 and expand the bottom a little more to the left (lower conductive number). Just add a little to the pattern and you will begin to hear masked targets that no other detector will find for you. They will be iffy but the conductive number will be stable from at least one, maybe two directions, and it will be close to what a good coin or other TID number should be. The ferrous number may be all skewed by the iron BUT... if you open the QM up all the way the masked targets will remain masked... just think about it and I think you'll understand why.

J
 
jbow said:
If you open up the screen in ferrous/2-tone you will not benefit from it. If there is a good target that is pretty well masked by iron, you will only hear the iron. ... if you open the QM up all the way the masked targets will remain masked... just think about it and I think you'll understand why.

J
Click to expand...

Jbow, up to this point I understood that a completely open screen was the way to go in 2 Tone Ferrous. Please explain why using some discrimination helps with unmasking good targets.

Thanks
 
Yes, I heard that the only discrimination one should use in two tone ferrous is simply to disc out the 1 through 35 ferrous line to reduce the wrap-around effect of iron. If I remember correctly...it was explained that using any more discrimination would make the two tone ferrous ineffective. Now I'm hearing the opposite...that more discrimination makes two tone ferrous more effective. It would be great if someone could post a pic of their discrimination pattern with a brief explanation.
 
...Ohio......you're completely correct mate!!

In my opinion through trial and error, the 2 tone Ferrous settings that we all seem to be using will be rendered un-usable bringing up the quickmask. Something happens to make it erratic.

Secondly......why would you do this anyway??

We've been discussing this for weeks now. If you disc out iron, you introduce iron masking and recovery lag. Why introduce it?? It doesn't make sense?
 
I don't use any masking when running 2-tone ferrous.I want a fully open "all metal" screen so I can hear every target. I have picked out many good targets right in super heavy iron spots that I previously walked over more than once, so I know this is working.

The part I find challenging is learning when to dig the "assumed" iron targets that fall right under the line where the machine audio says it's iron but very close to non-ferrous. Sometimes the numbers are making me question that audio, especially if the audio bounces up and back.
 
Because the software in the ET is designed to unmask better with a little disc. If you don't believe me... try it. the open screen thing is better on the Explorer series but the E-TRAC is NOT an explorer. Explorer users have been trying to get it to be an Explorer III ever since it came out but it isn't an Explorer.

You will find more masked targets by using a little disc with the E-TRAC. I like a modified relic pattern but a little disc at the bottom of the QM screen works too.

Andy Sabisch has done a lot of work on this, a lot of testing and put out a nice book. Ask him. he can explain it better but.. I know for a fact that a little disc unmasks better than an open screen. With an open screen targets that are mostly masked by iron will remain masked. I cannot explain it technically but I know it works and it has been written about since the ET came out until very recently when for some reason everyone is saying to use no disc in Ferrous/2-tone... that isn't the way to go... use a little disc to knock out a little of the iron, the non-ferrous will jump out at you.

I'll post this link again because I want you and others to get the most from the ET...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?63,1001576,1003530#msg-1003530

Julien
 
I made my own saved pattern with just the top line disced/blacked out except for about one fourth on right side for larger silver coins and it works like a charm.I tried wide open in the quick mask window and it was a constant racket of falses that was not productive for me at all.
I also found that in some tests with a rusty square nail on top of a silver dime I got better results in conductive coins mode as the nail would overpower the high silver with a low iron tone.I feel it behoves each one of us to do our own testing and see and hear just what happens in either set up.Otherwise we will miss some good targets for lack of understanding in both 2 tone ferrous and conductive tones with more discrimination used.I feel you must experiment or you will be cheating yourselves out of some good finds,Ray.
 
I understand what you guys are saying. It just seems to go against logic. Maybe it has to do with the overbearing signal created by a large piece of iron..?

Anyways, I will try it with a little disc similar to what Ray described to see if there's any difference.

I wish I could adjust the "17" line that 2-tone breaks on. I'd like to turn that up to about "25". I know it is rare, but I have dug old, deep coins (like a recent half dime that was on edge with iron in the hole) in iron-infested locations with consistent ferrous numbers over 20. It is too hard to watch the numbers when hearing iron low-tones using 2-tone ferrous just to see if I have a target that is giving a FE number between 18 and 25. I am also going to try to use 4-tone ferrous purely to see if it makes it a little easier to recognize these, as the second-lowest tone in 4-tone ferrous breaks at 30.

Good discussion!
 
I have tried a bit of disc at the bottom while using 2 tone ferrous. It made the machine very erratic and chirpy for some reason and was not pleasent to use. I for one wont use any disc at the bottom in 2 tone again. I think people need to try it and come to their own conclusions. I'm just saying it not for me.
 
I start with the relic screen, small amount in bottom right corner disc'd out then I use a small amount of disc at the top 01-01 thru 01-31 and that has pretty much eliminated any iron falsing for me and it runs smooth
 
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