1 month old excl 2 has a major problem

[erikk]

There is no doubt that the AT Pro or any other VLF water machine for that matter will not match the Excal (Sovereign) in depth under all types of ground conditons, though from what I've read the At Pro will give any Minelab (Sovereign, Etrac, Explorer) a run for it's money in terms of depth in some forms of mineralization (not all). But, when you factor in the price of an At Pro and the price of an Excal combined with the problems Minelab seems at a loss to correct in terms of reliability of the Excal (mainly the control pots)...One has to really consider an At Pro at half the price and it's light weight ease of land use along with water....AND the fact that you can swap coils on it right out of the box. People also seem to love it's lightning fast unmasking ability in iron as well.

Look at it this way...Minelab finally has some competition to the Excal after all these years, if not entirely based on performance then at least largely motivated by price. The At Pro at $540 doesn't suffer (if you think it does suffer) THAT much in performance to justify paying twice that amount for a heavier Excal...with the weight of a boat anchor...with the comfort of a bag of rocks...lacking an LCD screen...and suffering from reliability problems. If anything, perhaps Minelab will now feel obligated or at least motivated to come out with an improved water machine. I personaly would never buy an Excal. I can belly wade with my GT, and I could always buy a old Sovereign model south of $400 and stick that in a waterproof box and get the same or better performance of an Excal with much less in way of reliability issues. I always felt doing that was much more logical and would save you a ton of money over buying an Excal. And then you could take the Sovereign out of the water proof box and have a much more comfortable land machine as well.

Is the Excal, like the Sovereign, tops in terms of performance? Yes, no question. But is it that much ahead of an At Pro to justify twice the price and major reliability issues? Nope. In some grounds the At Pro will go just as deep from what I've read. And, even if down the road you find the At Pro has some reliability issues you can at least rest assured that Garrett will bend over backwards to fix the problem. Their customer service is legendary. Again, I'd be more apt to buy an older Sovereign model (they all get about the same depth anyway) and throw that in a waterproof box. Why spend more for a heavier, bulky, poor balanced, machine that has some design flaws?

I'm sure Excal lovers will come out of the wood work to flame me for the above, but that's just the way I feel.

I think if you had a few thousand hours on an excal in the surf you might be qualified to compare-BTW how many hours in the surf do you have with the AT Pro? I run an excal 4-6 days a week 365 (weather permitting) with very few problems and the one I did have was fixed and is on its second year of use-it is one of 3. Is Garret's customer service superior to Minelab-sure but compare the number of Garrett machines in use to Minelab and I own a Infinium LS & a Sea Hunter MK2 but IMHO the excal with the WOT coil wins hands down. U want to box up a Sov & try to hunt it in the surf GOOD LUCK. You who worry about weight in ounces would have a ball with that rig. Ever try to hold a beach ball down on the bottom of a pool? Now do it with a big scoop and waves slamming into you
As for me I hope ALL WATER HUNTERS buy and use the AT Pro, especially here in FL

 

[erikk]

Critter: For the money an AT pro is a very good buy. But I have an E-Trac a Safari and a G-2 because of the results of the Excallibur II and I don't live on a beach although I go to beachs several times a year and hunt freshwater swimming areas here at home. The point I am trying to make is if you can afford a Cadillac don't get a Kia. HH

AMEN

 

[Critterhunter]

There is no doubt that the AT Pro or any other VLF water machine for that matter will not match the Excal (Sovereign) in depth under all types of ground conditons, though from what I've read the At Pro will give any Minelab (Sovereign, Etrac, Explorer) a run for it's money in terms of depth in some forms of mineralization (not all). But, when you factor in the price of an At Pro and the price of an Excal combined with the problems Minelab seems at a loss to correct in terms of reliability of the Excal (mainly the control pots)...One has to really consider an At Pro at half the price and it's light weight ease of land use along with water....AND the fact that you can swap coils on it right out of the box. People also seem to love it's lightning fast unmasking ability in iron as well.

Look at it this way...Minelab finally has some competition to the Excal after all these years, if not entirely based on performance then at least largely motivated by price. The At Pro at $540 doesn't suffer (if you think it does suffer) THAT much in performance to justify paying twice that amount for a heavier Excal...with the weight of a boat anchor...with the comfort of a bag of rocks...lacking an LCD screen...and suffering from reliability problems. If anything, perhaps Minelab will now feel obligated or at least motivated to come out with an improved water machine. I personaly would never buy an Excal. I can belly wade with my GT, and I could always buy a old Sovereign model south of $400 and stick that in a waterproof box and get the same or better performance of an Excal with much less in way of reliability issues. I always felt doing that was much more logical and would save you a ton of money over buying an Excal. And then you could take the Sovereign out of the water proof box and have a much more comfortable land machine as well.

Is the Excal, like the Sovereign, tops in terms of performance? Yes, no question. But is it that much ahead of an At Pro to justify twice the price and major reliability issues? Nope. In some grounds the At Pro will go just as deep from what I've read. And, even if down the road you find the At Pro has some reliability issues you can at least rest assured that Garrett will bend over backwards to fix the problem. Their customer service is legendary. Again, I'd be more apt to buy an older Sovereign model (they all get about the same depth anyway) and throw that in a waterproof box. Why spend more for a heavier, bulky, poor balanced, machine that has some design flaws?

I'm sure Excal lovers will come out of the wood work to flame me for the above, but that's just the way I feel.

I think if you had a few thousand hours on an excal in the surf you might be qualified to compare-BTW how many hours in the surf do you have with the AT Pro? I run an excal 4-6 days a week 365 (weather permitting) with very few problems and the one I did have was fixed and is on its second year of use-it is one of 3. Is Garret's customer service superior to Minelab-sure but compare the number of Garrett machines in use to Minelab and I own a Infinium LS & a Sea Hunter MK2 but IMHO the excal with the WOT coil wins hands down. U want to box up a Sov & try to hunt it in the surf GOOD LUCK. You who worry about weight in ounces would have a ball with that rig. Ever try to hold a beach ball down on the bottom of a pool? Now do it with a big scoop and waves slamming into you
As for me I hope ALL WATER HUNTERS buy and use the AT Pro, especially here in FL

Largely this is dependent on where you mount a Sovereign inside a waterproof box on your body or shaft. Most Excal owners wanting less drag mount the box high at the end of the shaft. Mounting a Soveregn in a waterproof box that high above the end of the shaft would pose no more in terms of drag or weight. Or, it could be mounted up on your shoulder or something. Regardless, I wager a Sovereign in a waterproof box even with some form of counterweight to negatate the bouyency (if you had it in the water) would still weigh much less than the boat anchor of an Excal.

And in terms of comparison of the At Pro to an Excal number wise- not fair since the At Pro has only been out for months compared to many years for an Excal.

 

[Critterhunter]

My main point is that there is not that much difference in performance (or none at all in some sand/soil) to keep justifying both the added price, reliability issues, and non-ease of use of an Excal over other water machines (the AT Pro) these days. Up until now Minelab could sit back and rest on their performance factor to excuse the bulk, weight, unbalance, and un-user friendly features (no LCD screen or easy to reach PP) of an Excal over the competition. Now, at least in some soils or sands, the At Pro will hold it's own depth wise to it. Maybe Minelab will finally have to go back to the drawing board and make a machine that is at least more comfortable and price competitive. That's all I'm saying.

 

[erikk]

But if you need to get back and fourth to work every day without breaking down then the Kia might be a wise option. From what I've read the AT Pro is getting as deep as any Minelab at least in some soils/sands. I'm sure it won't everywhere but once again there is the ability to use the At Pro on land with it's low weight and LCD screen. The headphones and coil are designed to be removed on it right out of the box. And you could buy two for the price of one Excal. Or better yet, a new At Pro and a used Sovereign for the same price as an Excal.

I'm not arguing the performance aspect of the Excal. I'm talking about reliability, ease of use, and weight. As it stands if I were to buy a new Excal I would have to build myself a whole new shaft for it to get things comfortable.

Well since I have 2 build straight shafts for my excals (along with Infiniums, Sea Hunters & BH300) for $30.00 a pop I don't find that a very big problem-much simpler than trying to entomb a Sov to water hunt with it. Might be different if I was a weekend warrior water hunter but I am not. " FROM WHAT U HAVE READ" the Pro gets as deep as an excal . Lets see: been detecting and reading detector reviews since the 60's & can't ever remember reading a bad one. How about all the Pro's going back to get the coil chatter fixed? BTW I can change coils on my excals if I wish however I am still not to old to swing a WOT
I don't own or hunt a Sov so I don't comment on what I have no knowledge however I do know the excal inside out

 

[erikk]

My main point is that there is not that much difference in performance (or none at all in some sand/soil) to keep justifying both the added price, reliability issues, and non-ease of use of an Excal over other water machines (the AT Pro) these days. Up until now Minelab could sit back and rest on their performance factor to excuse the bulk, weight, unbalance, and un-user friendly features (no LCD screen or easy to reach PP) of an Excal over the competition. Now, at least in some soils or sands, the At Pro will hold it's own depth wise to it. Maybe Minelab will finally have to go back to the drawing board and make a machine that is at least more comfortable and price competitive. That's all I'm saying.

!: Who says there is not much difference? 2 Reliable-mine is used 40+ hours a week x 365 3: weight & unbalance:I guess a 90LB weakling might find it heavy but other than that.....4: Kind of hard to use a display when your detecting neck deep & never need PP because I know how to use my coil 5: The price is just fine actually under priced for what U get & I have a lot of gold to prove it. I don't own 3 excals because I like the color I have them because ther PRODUCE better than anything else out there IMHO AND FINALLY since I don't type as fast as U I am finished BTW Do you own an excal or if not how many hours have you hunted the surf with one?

 

[Critterhunter]

I've used an Excal enough to know that I'd rather use my GT front shoulder mounted in the water to ever drag/drudge an Excal around all day. More comments later as I'm about spent for the night. Beer....Mmmmm

 

[Terra1959]

Gday Critter,
I am new to in the water hunting so I am no expert but here in Southern Australia the mineralistaion in the wet sand on the beach is so high that a VLF wont cut it.
I did think hard about the Garrett (because of the low price) and I like Garretts but just knew it wouldn't cope on the beaches I hunt...so I kept saving for the Minelab
Freshwater...probably no problem and most likely they would be great

My back is so bad that I can only detect for 4 hour max. and favour lightweight detectors and harnesses.
I bought a Pluggers chest harness for my Excal. before the Excal. itself even arrived in the mail.
It takes all the weight off and I can happilly hunt in or out of the water
The harness with a D ring is great for clipping your scoop onto and then I just drag it along in the water until I find a target...so it helps make the scoop easy to lug around
The shaft is so light now and easy to swing that I am gunna upgrade to a bigger WOT coil for next Summer.

Garrett has always been right on the money price wise and a waterproof detector for $600 is awesome !
I have a very experienced friend who hunts with an old Sov. in plastic bag in a backpack and he does very well ...so that idea is a sound one
Me being such a clutss - I would dunk it for sure. Last time I went out it was choppy and I got wet head to toe.
Another friend of mine dropped his old Sov. XS in the salt water 2 weeks ago , I am still waiting to see if it still works
good debate though
happy hunting whatever you swing
T59

 

[kered]

At pro same depth as an excalibur? now that i gota see, especially in the wet sand.

 

[Critterhunter]

As I noted several times, in some soils but not all the AT Pro is getting the depth of any Minelab. 11" on a silver dime is nothing to sneeze at and about the depth any Etrac, Explorer, or Sovereign is getting on land in some soils. As I stated, I'm sure it won't keep up in some soils or sands. But then it is said to be doing really well in iron due to it's lightning fast response. Recently read of an Etrac user who had worked a spot with his Etrac a bunch of times, yet when he went back with his AT Pro he popped more silver than he ever got there with the Etrac due to the iron present. Now, I'm not a big fan of recovery speed. So long as you sweep slow enough and investigate targets properly recovery speed means nothing. Still, it's nice to have that faster ability when you aren't exactly hunting as slow as you should. That's when a faster recovery speed will make a difference, when you aren't swinging as slow as you should and investigating targets properly.

I've never been a Garrett fan. The GTI series to me was a major joke with the target sizing slots when White's already had a flowing sizing display on the QXT, and it was much more useful in that it didn't stick targets into static size slots. The depth of the GTI series, like all other Garretts I ever played with, was nothing to write home about either. But if you do enough research and reading you'll see that Garrett does have a real winner in this case. The first machine I've ever had any interest in from them. They did everything right, and the little things like being able to remove the coil and headphones without having to cut cables like on an Excal. The weight is better. It's perfectly at home on land with the LCD screen and light weight. Garrett is light years ahead of Minelab in terms of warranty and customer service. Heck, I got a 2 year warranty on my ProPointer. Imagine that.

I do feel silly being an advocate for anything Garrett but have to give credit where it's due. They hit a home run with this one.

 

[Critterhunter]

I'm just hoping Minelab will finally feel somebody breathing down their neck and that motivates them to come out with a new water machine. It doesn't have to even have anything different electronics wise. Just some hardware changes to make it lighter, a remote PP switch like any normal metal detector should have, and better balance so you aren't feeling so akward with it. Coil and headphone connectors.

Do those things and fix the reliability issues such as the POTs and they'd create more distance between them and the AT Pro in terms of buying points. What would really be nice would be a waterproof target ID so it could be used on land as well. But then you are talking waterproof Sovereign and might as well come out with a dual purpose land/water machine along those lines.

Man, they wouldn't even have to do R&D to change the electronics. Just stick it in a light weight waterproof box with waterproof meter, make it lighter, and sell a bunch of those things. Making it cheaper would also be a good idea. Say $699. Not as cheap as $540 for an AT Pro but now with enough user friendly features and better performance (in some soils) to justify paying that much more for it.

 

[erikk]

I'm just hoping Minelab will finally feel somebody breathing down their neck and that motivates them to come out with a new water machine. It doesn't have to even have anything different electronics wise. Just some hardware changes to make it lighter, a remote PP switch like any normal metal detector should have, and better balance so you aren't feeling so akward with it. Coil and headphone connectors.

Do those things and fix the reliability issues such as the POTs and they'd create more distance between them and the AT Pro in terms of buying points. What would really be nice would be a waterproof target ID so it could be used on land as well. But then you are talking waterproof Sovereign and might as well come out with a dual purpose land/water machine along those lines.

Man, they wouldn't even have to do R&D to change the electronics. Just stick it in a light weight waterproof box with waterproof meter, make it lighter, and sell a bunch of those things. Making it cheaper would also be a good idea. Say $699. Not as cheap as $540 for an AT Pro but now with enough user friendly features and better performance (in some soils) to justify paying that much more for it.

I would like them to leave it alone, raise the price to $2000.00, and offer a free muscle building course to anyone who wants to buy one and thinks it is too heavy

 

[erikk]

As I noted several times, in some soils but not all the AT Pro is getting the depth of any Minelab. 11" on a silver dime is nothing to sneeze at and about the depth any Etrac, Explorer, or Sovereign is getting on land in some soils. As I stated, I'm sure it won't keep up in some soils or sands. But then it is said to be doing really well in iron due to it's lightning fast response. Recently read of an Etrac user who had worked a spot with his Etrac a bunch of times, yet when he went back with his AT Pro he popped more silver than he ever got there with the Etrac due to the iron present. Now, I'm not a big fan of recovery speed. So long as you sweep slow enough and investigate targets properly recovery speed means nothing. Still, it's nice to have that faster ability when you aren't exactly hunting as slow as you should. That's when a faster recovery speed will make a difference, when you aren't swinging as slow as you should and investigating targets properly.

I've never been a Garrett fan. The GTI series to me was a major joke with the target sizing slots when White's already had a flowing sizing display on the QXT, and it was much more useful in that it didn't stick targets into static size slots. The depth of the GTI series, like all other Garretts I ever played with, was nothing to write home about either. But if you do enough research and reading you'll see that Garrett does have a real winner in this case. The first machine I've ever had any interest in from them. They did everything right, and the little things like being able to remove the coil and headphones without having to cut cables like on an Excal. The weight is better. It's perfectly at home on land with the LCD screen and light weight. Garrett is light years ahead of Minelab in terms of warranty and customer service. Heck, I got a 2 year warranty on my ProPointer. Imagine that.

I do feel silly being an advocate for anything Garrett but have to give credit where it's due. They hit a home run with this one.

How do you know? How many hours do you have actually running one. IMHO it is an inexpensive entry level detector for a newbie water hunter just like the ACE 150, 250,350
I see the 'IN SOME SOIL" qualifier again IMHO that is a CYA phrase. Let me tell you a bit about the connectors for the removable coil and headphones since I have them on my Infinium LS and Sea Hunter MK2 The Pin connectors are VERY fragile, difficult to insert and will bend out of sinc in a heartbeat. They are also prone to freezing up from use in the salt unless you disconnect them and rinse every time U use them which puts a lot of wear and tear on the connectors and if U are not SUPER CAREFUL you will eventually bend one of the pins and get it inserted incorrectly. Also, anyone that doesn't have eyes like an eagle will eventually insert the pins into the rubber and not the correct slots causing all kinds of erratic behavior to which they will probably not have a clue what is wrong.
Again, I hope every snowbird on the planet that is considering coming to FL with a water machine buys one and forgets about the overweight,fragile, unbalanced difficult to operate excalibur

 

[NamVetLesTreasureSeeker]

Critterhunter, You're a REAL DREAMER if you think MINELAB is going to do that and KEEP THE PRICE DOWN!! If they come out with your " DREAM
DETECTOR", it will be EASILY PRICED OVER $2000!! As far as the EXCALIBUR SHORTCOMINGS, they have KNOWN ABOUT THEM for OVER
10yrs., and have NEVER ATTEMPTED to correct them!! Why I DON'T KNOW, because I THINK it would be JUST GOOD OLD COMMON BUSI-
NESS SENSE!! But, EVERYONE is ENTITLED TO DREAM!! This government HASN'T TAKEN THAT AWAY Y-E-T!! HH, Les Robinson

 

[Anonymous]

I'm beginning to get annoyed with this detector, its been here for a month, first I could not use it because it was supplied with a bad battery and now I have this :

yesterday I noticed that my excl was behaving strangely when switching between disc/pinpoint, whenever I switched I got a strange noise asif there was bad contact inside, the tresh hold was getting interrupted for a fraction of a second.

today with a fully loaded battery I test it before my usual hunt and it appears to be fine.

when I was on the train to the coast I tested it again (was bored) and could not turn it on! after connecting and disconnecting the battery a few times I got it to work

once I arrived to the hunting area I tried for an hour or so to turn it on, no effect. I dont think its the battery this time, there is something far worse wrong with the detector.


too bad, because excl has found me over 2oz of gold already

anyway, the dealer is sending it for "repairs" and I fear I may miss a large part of the season.

Didn't it have a warranty?

 

[Florida Keys Pirate]

Even with the Warranty , from what I hear , if you have to send it in , you're gonna be without your detector for about two months. Kind of crazy.

 

[erikk]

Even with the Warranty , from what I hear , if you have to send it in , you're gonna be without your detector for about two months. Kind of crazy.

That is why if U R a serious water hunter U need at LEAST 1, preferably 2 back up detectors to stay in business

 

[hershey1]

erikk you are wasting your time.

 

[Florida Keys Pirate]

I agree, I'm just sayin..................