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zero discrimination on SE

K

keithinvestigations

New member
How many users actually run a blank screen while searching for deep coins or just hunting in general? My hats off to anyone who can do this, it seems as if one would have to have a lot of patience and go very slowly. Everytime I have tried, I get overwhelmed and just go back to the factory coin discrimination.
 
For me it's the only way to hunt with the Explorer no matter which series ...
Yes, it's a lot to listen to "depending on the site conditions" but it also allows the processor to reset between the targets much faster and there is no nulling of the threshold when set this way.
The trashier the site, the smaller the coil used until the targets start thinning out, then I go up in coil size for the extra depth.

IM -16 all the way let's me hear EVERYTHING, iron can be your friend when scanning a large area where targets are few a far between too.
If you find iron then the probablitity is strong that "other goodies" were lost there by the folks that left the iron.
Learning to use the Explorer by SOUND is #1 on the list, the brain will become very efficient in seperating all of those sounds after several hundred hours of use :heh:

Mike
 
I use -16/AM on the Explorer series most of the time. I learned to turn down Volume and Threshold to suit and use the GAIN at differing levels to suit my hearing tolerance. When GAIN is set to high(10), I find that it overwhelms if I have I have the volume too high. So maybe turn that down and try and hear the varying tones through that.
Most good targets come through clearly and are found at a pretty good depth in certain soil types and conditions.
I believe it mainly needs a use of more vigilance when listening out for what good target/s may lay in amongst or next to the ferrous or non-ferrous junk targets.
Those repeatable at all angles signals help BUT there are also the ones that don't repeat or are potentially good signal that also need investigating. Can't say there are absolutes in the way the Explorer behaves given the differing ground conditions that hunting for buried objects will behave unless we are talking about detecting on a clean salt sandy beach where a target seems easier to find and is closer to being identified prior to digging.BUT given the fact that you'd want to dig some targets that are supposed to be pull tabs then you'd be best digging them as some good metals such as gold will sound off as a ring pull and tab.

Either way, It's all really good fun and should not become a frustration :thumbup:


David Di
 
...that IM-16 in the case of the SE is actually IM-32/AM (All Metal), so as not to confuse anybody reading this. And that's the only way I hunt too.

I find that if I run the threshold down (and I think I run mine at 8 or 10, but it really depends on your headphones...point is, keep it high enough to hear it well and low enough to not be annoying) and go easy on the volume and gain then it isn't that hard to take at all. As for the "going slow" part that Keith mentioned, I find I have to go slower when my threshold is constantly nulling than when I have it wide open. I can certainly hunt a little faster in IM-All Metal than if it's using any disc, particularly at a trashy/iron-rich site.
 
Davy,

The general consensus is that when hunting for old coins less discrimination is best. It's pretty evenly split between people who use minimal iron mask and those who use open screen.

It's confusing at first but once you get used to it becomes difficult to go back to discrimination and have your machine constantly nulling.

Chris
 
I often go zero disc when checking if the target is iron or not. But usually around -14 to -12. I have found in my coin garden that even if I go to -1 this does not cause a depth decrease.
 
I move very, very slowly and investigate every signal that doesn't sound like iron. Its amazing how even with the stock coil I can sniff out a good deep coin from among the trash.
 
Mike, I spoke with JW at Kellyco today who spoke very highly of you. He told me that you were probably the best person he knows of on the SE. I wanted some advice from you if you can spare a moment. I have about 20 hrs on my SE. Depending on my mood, I can find some good targets with it but I find myself becoming frustrated most of the time. I just ordered a 6" DD EXcelerator / EQ 2 Pro Searchcoil from Kellyco today. I'm hoping that going to a smaller coil will help me pick targets easier. Anyway, what is your advice on getting the hang of this machine? So far, most of the advice I've received is to run factory presets with coins checked and learn the tones. I've been using digital mode but today JW told me to get out of digital and go to smartfind until I learn the tones which are most important. To be honest, I'm really intimidated by the machine and have often wondered more than once if I will ever get proficient with it. Let me know your thoughts and advice. Thanks, Davy Keith.
 
I use my Ex II with no discrimination. Though it is tough to get used to at first, after a while of using it the constant groan of the ferrous targets is almost not noticable, unless you are over an old homesite loaded with nails.
 
I would need some head ache pills using an explorer se in all metal is enough to drive any sane person nuts. I have tried all metal and find no gains in finds with either all metal or a discrimination pattern, i find more using discrimination patterns. The se is fast anyway so i don't feel the need to have to listen to every tiny piece of trash crap and iron buried underground. I have been reading a lot on these forums about the benefits of all metal search mode but like i say i have found it mostly to offer no big benefit on most sites with the se.
 
I to am having a tough time working in all metal but there is a difference in depth. Check out this thread I started a couple weeks back: http://www.findmall.com/read.php?19,518386,518386#msg-518386 I have some programs I use on my SE too but when silver coins are deeper than about 6-7", they "can" ID as Iron. I did this test with the new 6" Accelerator EQ2 coil. A larger coil will go deeper of course before doing this. Not just on the SE, but on all the detectors that I have tested with the same size coil. OK, check that thread out...Good luck...Dickie
 
The benefit is that you don't have to deal with the constant nulling out of the machine when you're in a spot that has a lot of iron in the ground. So you can roll along a little faster and hear what kind of ground you're in and can also hear good targets that are co-located with bad targets...like that silver dime next to that rusty nail...a lot better than you can if the machines is coming out of a rusty nail null and misses the silver dime.

But since you seem to be doing so well hunting in YOUR mode, I wouldn't want to suggest that you change your way of doing business just because I think you could be doing better if you gave the all-metal method a chance for a little while. Many of us have found that in fact it IS a lot better when you LISTEN to everything and DIG what sounds and looks good. As for driving you nuts, it takes a very short time of giving that method a chance before one quickly gets used to it. It does take a little time, like a few hunts. One thing that helped me was turning down the threshold to "just audible" and turning down the volume to moderate. Before long you don't even notice the "trash crap and iron" but the good targets jump out at you.

Finally, the beauty of the Explorers is that there are more ways to skin the cat and if you want to "run wide", you can run wide. If you want to disc heavily, you can and it will still do pretty well. I have a pattern I made where I "learned" every good coin, relic, and ring that I found in like 7 years of hunting with as many machines. And it's a LOT. And the resultant pattern is like 95% BLACK. I used it at a few sites and found a few nice finds with it but ultimately had to go running back to All Metal. I couldn't stand all the damn SILENCE...it was driving me NUTS! :lol:
 
The good news is once you get used to it, your brain learns to ignore all that beepity beeping noise, it just fades into the background like some bizzare form of threshold. But when a quality target makes even a peep of a sound your brain pounces.

I know that's easy for me to say, I'm there already and the noise is still driving you crazy. Well when I first started hunting in all metal it drove me nuts too and I went home several days with a pounding headache at first. What worked for me was this.

First don't select the worst strip of former trash heap you can find to learn in, pick a reasonable site. Rusty nails are okay, they are your friend (yes your best friend) but keep clear of the modern shallow trash heaps for now.

Start by hunting in all metal using ferrous tones. Slow down you are not in a foot race. Hunt this way until it becomes uncomfortable then go back to your descrimination mode for a while and rest. If you find a good deeper signal in either mode STOP! I know you are anxious to dig up a great find but don't waste this opportunity to train your brain.

If you are in disc mode sweep the target from several different angles and pay particular attention to how the signal changes, does it break up from some angles, are there nearby nulls due to trash and iron? Now switch to all metal and sweep it again, pay particular attention to how you can now 'hear' where everything is in relation to your target, a nail at 4 oclock, foil at 7 oclock, notice how much easier it is to get the coil pinpointed dead center over the target without nulls pulling it offline. In short order you will learn to love sweeping a target in all metal versus a null ridden disc mode.

Continue with this approach, gradually getting used to the all metal mode over time. You accomplish quite a few things with this method. Your brain learns what quality targets sound like versus trash. You learn what deep targets sound like versus trash. You learn to pick around the trash and nulls, you can almost see where things are in the ground in relation to your target with your ears.

Another very good approach to taking the Explorer to the next level is this. While you are doing the above pick a day for your awakening. On this day you will pick a depth where you think the older targets begin to show up and dig ALL targets at that depth or deeper no matter what they sound like or how they ID on the screen, with the single exception of rusty nails of course, do not dig those.

This is a great way to learn just how crappy a coin or good target can sound. Signal quality ranges from good to what's that to OMG I can't f'ing believe that was a coin. You will have a case of the mumbles after digging some of these, it's okay they will go away eventually.

You will also be training your brain to be poised to pounce on these deep signals as they peep through the noise of hunting in all metal. All you need is that split second peep of a signal when your brain says, hey wait a minute, what was that? Then you stop and investigate further. Hit it from other angles, sneak up on it with the front of your coil if its hiding in a null or near a trash signal.

You will also learn what some trash signals sound like, lets not paint too rosy of a picture here. I'm pretty sure you will learn what tiny trash targets sound and behave like that say they are deep when they are really quite shallow. They come up as deep due to the tiny size. Depth is size dependent. The Explorer depth meter appears to be calibrated on a small cent size target. Smaller targets show as deeper than they really are on the depth meter, larger targets like silver halfs show as shallower than they really are.

There's a trick to catching those tiny shallow targets by the way. First often they will be quite short as you sweep across them, they just don't have the width of a coin signal. Second if you get this small fainter signal reading 10 inches deep and you lift your coil 3 inches off the ground and it still sounds off good, you are likely over a shallow tiny bit of metal that is giving you a false depth. A quick shallow plug will confirm this, dig a few to prove it to yourself. If on the other hand if the target vanishes quickly as your raise your coil then dig carefully, you got a deep one on your hands.

Well thats more than I have wrote in a while, good luck out there!

Charles (formerly of Upstate NY)
 
I agree with the theory behind what you say about getting no nulling out of threshold using all metal - I have not been having much success lately with the se last 2 trips i found a few bits of chewed pop tins and foil and banging sounds which i presume is iron. My sites are crap so i can't blame it on the superb se - if their is nothing under the coil but trash iron and foil then i need better sites i guess. i have tried many different settings but i find that different settings do not
make much difference. i am starting to actually believe i have a duff SE although it picks coins up at good range in air.
 
Charles, that is one of the most brilliant explanations I have read. I just read a PM by Mike (Virgina Beach) that gave me the same advice. The problem I had was that I was searching with all metal in conduct mode. I find the tone between high ferrous metal and high conduct difficult to differentiate. After reading yours and Mike's PM, I went out my yard and found three targets that were metal other than iron. They were trash but I was able to distinguish between the blat of metal and more conductive targets such as what I found, copper wire x 2 and lead bullet (mine no doubt). Also, the lead was on top of the ground. After digging a six inch plug I turned it over and found the small .22 lead. At the time, I did note that it seemed to be quite small in pin point mode but the depth threw me off. Beginning to see slowly how this thing works.
 
I can manage all metal on low trash low iron sites no problem. But the more infested the trash /iron is then i have to admit will all honesty i can manage 10 minutes or so of all metal sounds before having to go back to a pattern usually coins tick jewelry tick nothing else ticked or x out. Having read here about this recent topic of which select options should be ticked or x then maybe i should do the following.
coins tick. jewelry tick. pulltab tick. foil tick. fe coins x. bottletops x screwcaps tick. nails x. any input on this please. i am finding no small buttons too which is a bad sign - we all know if you are finding tiny buttons your detector is working fine.:shrug:
 
is there a diff. between....Iron mask -32 and just cleared smart screen in select...? If not then why?............ also people running in conductive tones ...I would think have a hard time in wide open cleared screen or IM -32...seeing by running in ferrous tones you can hear the diff. between Iron and high pitched coins. you would have to be looking at the cursor at all times to see diff. between them...cause Iron sounds high in conductive sounds.
 
Is that pinpoint (when it responds properly).....can also help one to determine when there is more than one target around....which may make a bad sound with a good sound mixed...I always check in pinpoint when it sounds good and not good...if sneeking up on it doesn't work, and you cannot isolate good target sound. It can help if you go slow...it takes more time but can help sometimes. I got to admit I have never tried digging deep sounding Iron before but I am gonna try now...I have read a few storys...
 
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