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zeitgeist the movie.
- Thread starter Nauti
- Start date
Leslie(nova scotia)
Well-known member
Can't seem to locate it on youtube!
steve in so la
Well-known member
since I have watched any movie. Just my 2 cents, steve in so la
Nauti
Well-known member
It is easy to access.....its on you tube.I just wondered what people thought about the fact that in 3000 bc there was a child born to a virgin,went around performing miracles,was crucified and then rose again......and was a figure from egyption culture.Since the first mention of this character,he has popped up many times in different cultures and all before the Christian manifestation.......can somebody explain?
Nauti
Well-known member
260 views and nobody can explain?It seems that the story of Jesus has been told many times before in different cultures......and under different characters well before Jesus lived.Is'nt there anyone with an answer because i'm slightly confused and I need to know why the same story has been told since 3000 bc.....first starting in Egyptian culture.The story of the virgin birth,the diciples,the betrayal,the crucifiction and ressurection did'nt start with Jesus it seems?
Anyone?
Anyone?
steve in so la
Well-known member
While I didn't watch it, seems like people would be turned off by 120 minutes of yet another person's idea of Christ and how it happened. I prefer to read the Bible only as the Lord has given us how it was. And what better source of truth than the Bible ? Unless one doesn't believe.
Maybe I am not answering your question. Steve in so la
Maybe I am not answering your question. Steve in so la
Nauti
Well-known member
No you are not answering the question........it is hard to ignore that the exact story of Christ was the exact same story attributed to a character from Egyptian culture some 3000 years before any mention of Christ.This is not somebodys idea of how it happened,it is written history from Egyption culture,just like the many other characters that share the same story from other cultures.......all coming many years before the story of Jesus.If you study the info it is hard to ignore and can't be dismissed by the shallow argument of "the bible is the truth and thats it".
Nauti
Well-known member
I know what bc stands for......i dont understand why the exact same story of Christ,ie the virgin birth,becoming a teacher,the story of the diciples,the betrayal,the crucifiction and the ressurection is a re occuring story that has been attributed to many different characters before the time of Christ.........the first one being attributed to the character from Egyptian history 3000 years before any mention of Christ........as told in ancient Egyptian texts.How can the story of Christ be the one true meaning if the same story has been told many times before he even existed?
7centsworth
Well-known member
I don't have all the answers and never will. But I can tell you from my experiences tht GOD is very real. I have went through some things that would shock you. And he has reveals himself to me in many ways. A person will never feel GOD or get close to him if they shut him out. You have to be open because he does not just force his self on you. If you are right and he is never coming back, you haven't lost anything. But if you are wrong and he comes back you may lose it all. I ask you to get in the bible and read. And then pray that GOD will reveal himself to you. I hope I see you in heaven someday. I would also like to see you on earth someday and go detecting with you.
I'm guessing that most have not seen the movie, and don't feel they can give an accurate answer. I will take the time to seek an answer from you. Check back in a day or two. God bless.
"the greatest STORY ever told"? Ouch dude!
Its a personal thing, so you ought not be hammering us on whether we watched some movie or something, none of us here have ever tried to hurt you in any way......believe or not believe, thats up to you...for some folks God makes himself known, for others, he dont, cant explain it or pretend to understand it either...so if we are ignorant and wrong, whats that to you? Please dont deprive me of my glorious ignorance! Its about all I have!
Still, God does like some fighters, and you, Neil, got some fight in you!...so I think you will get this issue settled out on your Personal level someday...oh, you also have a pretty active mind, so it will NEVER be at rest, maybe at peace someday, but never at rest...must be something in your future you need to do with it...excited and scared for you all at once on this regard...!
I can't speak for the rest of us here...but if I didnt believe, I would not be any kind of person you would want to be around for long...not out of fear, but out of respect for Him...and even at this basic level, I'm not much...good thing about grace, not earned or deserved....grace is just grace, mercy for me might not be mercy for you...
Its hard to find a quiet time now a days....generally late at night, looking up and being very quiet is comforting to me...especially out on the water in a boat.....memorize a few scriptures that seem to jump out at you for some reason, get to know Gods personality and what he likes and dont like is all I can recommend...that way, at least you tried, which is more than most..I would sure hate to face him someday and say..."I felt you tugging, but I saw this one movie zeitgeist once"...."all sorts of folks smarter than me convinced me you were a myth"...
Then God says, "hey, do you know this guy Neil?" And I'm like, "Neil? yeah, hes cool, likes wood boats just like you and me"...right..! In your dreams!..
Neil, dont lay this trip on a guy like me who cant be trusted!, for in my fear for my own eternal Life, standing in front of the Creator, knowing I'm not worthy of even getting an audience!, would most probably say: "I do not know the man!", Lord is like, "really? you sure" And I'm like, "Oh yeah, Neil? Now I remember! He's that damned guy on Findmall that made me watch that movie zeitgeist in the first place!, He's from England I think, and prolly a Muslim, pull the lever on that blankety blank"!..
Mud
Its a personal thing, so you ought not be hammering us on whether we watched some movie or something, none of us here have ever tried to hurt you in any way......believe or not believe, thats up to you...for some folks God makes himself known, for others, he dont, cant explain it or pretend to understand it either...so if we are ignorant and wrong, whats that to you? Please dont deprive me of my glorious ignorance! Its about all I have!
Still, God does like some fighters, and you, Neil, got some fight in you!...so I think you will get this issue settled out on your Personal level someday...oh, you also have a pretty active mind, so it will NEVER be at rest, maybe at peace someday, but never at rest...must be something in your future you need to do with it...excited and scared for you all at once on this regard...!
I can't speak for the rest of us here...but if I didnt believe, I would not be any kind of person you would want to be around for long...not out of fear, but out of respect for Him...and even at this basic level, I'm not much...good thing about grace, not earned or deserved....grace is just grace, mercy for me might not be mercy for you...
Its hard to find a quiet time now a days....generally late at night, looking up and being very quiet is comforting to me...especially out on the water in a boat.....memorize a few scriptures that seem to jump out at you for some reason, get to know Gods personality and what he likes and dont like is all I can recommend...that way, at least you tried, which is more than most..I would sure hate to face him someday and say..."I felt you tugging, but I saw this one movie zeitgeist once"...."all sorts of folks smarter than me convinced me you were a myth"...
Then God says, "hey, do you know this guy Neil?" And I'm like, "Neil? yeah, hes cool, likes wood boats just like you and me"...right..! In your dreams!..
Neil, dont lay this trip on a guy like me who cant be trusted!, for in my fear for my own eternal Life, standing in front of the Creator, knowing I'm not worthy of even getting an audience!, would most probably say: "I do not know the man!", Lord is like, "really? you sure" And I'm like, "Oh yeah, Neil? Now I remember! He's that damned guy on Findmall that made me watch that movie zeitgeist in the first place!, He's from England I think, and prolly a Muslim, pull the lever on that blankety blank"!..
Mud
steve in so la
Well-known member
when I'm out on the water the world goes away 
Steve in so la
Steve in so laPeople have been trying to disprove Christianity since the time of Christ and can not do it. This would have been pounced on many, many years ago and spread by every atheist and polytheist out there. A quick google search found tons of sights debunking Peter Joseph's claims in his falseumentary zeitgeist.
One sight (gotquestions.org) broke it down like this.
"The meatier part of the first section of the movie is devoted to allegations of Jesus being nothing but a combination of pagan deities whose attributes the gospel writers borrowed to create their own new god. The main authority used in this portion of the movie, and the first major mythological figure presented as a forerunner of Jesus, is the Egyptian god Horus. If we see that the research on their primary character is flawed, it follows that the same faulty investigation methods/materials will be present in everything else.
The Zeitgeist movie makes these claims about the Egyptian god Horus:
• He was born on December 25 of a virgin (Isis Mary)
• A star in the East proclaimed his arrival
• Three kings came to adore the new-born “savior”
• He became a prodigious teacher at age 12
• At age 30 he was “baptized” and began a “ministry”
• Horus had twelve “disciples”
• Horus was betrayed
• He was crucified
• He was buried for three days
• He was resurrected after three days
If true, this would certainly be unsettling to followers of Christ. However, examining each point in detail is quite revealing. First, it is true that Egyptian legend has Horus being born to Isis. But where did the trailing name of “Mary” that is used in the movie come from? No mention in any Egyptian literature links the name Isis to the name Mary. Isis was also not a virgin. No account of Horus’ birth makes this statement. Rather, Isis was the widow of Osiris, another Egyptian god with whom Isis conceived Horus. Finally, Horus was supposedly born during the month of Khoiak (Oct/Nov), and not on December 25, a fact which does not help their claim of marrying the stories of Horus and Jesus, anyway, because the Bible never assigns a birth date to Christ.
Next, the film states that a star in the East announced Horus’ birth and that three kings came to bring gifts to the “savior.” However, when stories detailing the birth of Horus are examined, there is no star or three kings who come to visit him. Trying to link this to Christianity fails in any event, as the account of Christ’s birth in Matthew has magi (wise men, not kings) coming to Jesus with their actual number not being stated. Clearly, the movie is using the traditions of December 25 and three wise men, not the Bible, to link Jesus and Horus. Finally, the movie calls Horus a “savior.” There are no descriptions of Horus being a savior to anyone or serving in that capacity.
This is an important point: the movie takes extreme liberty in the quick and subtle uses of Christian words and phrases that in no way accurately describe the actual pagan god or his attributes. This is seen again in the statements of Horus being “baptized” and starting a “ministry.” The only accounts remotely related to Horus and water are the stories told of Osiris (his father who is sometimes combined in ancient accounts with Horus to form one individual) whose body was cut up into 14 pieces by his enemy, Set, and scattered throughout the earth. Isis supposedly found each part of the body and after having Osiris float in the Nile, he came back to life or became the lord of the underworld, depending on which account is read. In any event, stating that Horus was “baptized” is simply playing fast and loose with Christian terminology and is another obvious attempt to link mythology and the Bible.
In addition, Horus had no “ministry.” Horus becoming a teacher at age 12 (mimicking the account of Jesus at the temple as a youth) is nowhere to be found in accounts of Horus; neither are there any statements to the effect that he had 12 “disciples.” According to the Horus accounts, Horus had four semi-gods that were followers and some indications of 16 human followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths that went into battle with him. No accounts of Horus being betrayed are found in his portrayals and he certainly did not die by crucifixion in any account. There is an incident described in one story of Horus being torn to pieces, with Isis requesting that the crocodile god pull him out of the water, but the movie does not mention this, as it does not fit their agenda. Further, the movie puts the account of Horus as originating in 3000 B.C., which predates the invention and practice of crucifixion, so there is another historical problem that must be overcome.
The claims of Horus being buried for three days and resurrected are not to be found in any ancient Egyptian texts, either. Some accounts have Osiris being brought back to life by Isis and going to be the lord of the underworld. But there is no mention of a burial for three days and no mention of his physically coming out of a grave in the same physical body he went in with and never dying again. And there is certainly no account of Horus dying for others as Jesus did.
In the end, the attempt to prove Horus was a picture/forerunner of Jesus simply fails from lack of any historical evidence. The movie continues in this same vein with all the other mythological pagan deities that pre-dated Jesus (Attis, Krishna, etc.) As just another simple example, the Zeitgeist movie says that Hindu’s Krishna was also crucified and resurrected. However, Hindu teachings clearly state that Krishna was killed by an arrow shot from a hunter who accidentally hit him in his heel, and after he died, he ascended to be with Brahman. None of the pagan deities, when accurately examined, mirror the Son of God recorded in the New Testament Gospels.
Of course, neither does the movie note the following facts:
• The many archaeological details confirming New Testament accounts.
• The historically confirmed references to the details of the life of Christ.
• The early dating of the Gospel accounts during the lifetime of the eyewitnesses.
• The deep moral convictions of the authors and their commitment to truth.
• The accounts of the apostles going to their deaths for what they believed.
• The typology of Joseph and Jesus (used by the film to supposedly debunk the actual existence of Christ) is very well known and accepted by conservative Christian scholars as a foreshadowing of the first coming of Jesus.
• All the good produced by Christianity (see How Christianity Changed the World by Dr. Alvin Schmidt), which is brushed aside with only the crusades and other like events being highlighted.
It is interesting to note that Christianity is the only faith attacked in the movie—Islam, Hinduism, and others don’t warrant a mention. Though the faith of the producers is not exposed, there is a blurb at the end speaking to the effect that “all is one,” with a clip of noted evolutionist/materialist Carl Sagan saying that the earth is a single organism and that a “new consciousness is developing” that shows all is one. This is paganism, pure and simple."
Now, one would have to accept that the author of this article did their homework and what they state above is true...just as one would have to assume that Peter Joseph did for his movie. Like many things, the only way to know for certain is to research all of the claims for yourself and see if what is reported about the Egyptian history is true. Both sides can't be correct.
I would recommend that anyone struggling with this would read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroebel or "More than a Carpenter" by Josh McDowell.
One sight (gotquestions.org) broke it down like this.
"The meatier part of the first section of the movie is devoted to allegations of Jesus being nothing but a combination of pagan deities whose attributes the gospel writers borrowed to create their own new god. The main authority used in this portion of the movie, and the first major mythological figure presented as a forerunner of Jesus, is the Egyptian god Horus. If we see that the research on their primary character is flawed, it follows that the same faulty investigation methods/materials will be present in everything else.
The Zeitgeist movie makes these claims about the Egyptian god Horus:
• He was born on December 25 of a virgin (Isis Mary)
• A star in the East proclaimed his arrival
• Three kings came to adore the new-born “savior”
• He became a prodigious teacher at age 12
• At age 30 he was “baptized” and began a “ministry”
• Horus had twelve “disciples”
• Horus was betrayed
• He was crucified
• He was buried for three days
• He was resurrected after three days
If true, this would certainly be unsettling to followers of Christ. However, examining each point in detail is quite revealing. First, it is true that Egyptian legend has Horus being born to Isis. But where did the trailing name of “Mary” that is used in the movie come from? No mention in any Egyptian literature links the name Isis to the name Mary. Isis was also not a virgin. No account of Horus’ birth makes this statement. Rather, Isis was the widow of Osiris, another Egyptian god with whom Isis conceived Horus. Finally, Horus was supposedly born during the month of Khoiak (Oct/Nov), and not on December 25, a fact which does not help their claim of marrying the stories of Horus and Jesus, anyway, because the Bible never assigns a birth date to Christ.
Next, the film states that a star in the East announced Horus’ birth and that three kings came to bring gifts to the “savior.” However, when stories detailing the birth of Horus are examined, there is no star or three kings who come to visit him. Trying to link this to Christianity fails in any event, as the account of Christ’s birth in Matthew has magi (wise men, not kings) coming to Jesus with their actual number not being stated. Clearly, the movie is using the traditions of December 25 and three wise men, not the Bible, to link Jesus and Horus. Finally, the movie calls Horus a “savior.” There are no descriptions of Horus being a savior to anyone or serving in that capacity.
This is an important point: the movie takes extreme liberty in the quick and subtle uses of Christian words and phrases that in no way accurately describe the actual pagan god or his attributes. This is seen again in the statements of Horus being “baptized” and starting a “ministry.” The only accounts remotely related to Horus and water are the stories told of Osiris (his father who is sometimes combined in ancient accounts with Horus to form one individual) whose body was cut up into 14 pieces by his enemy, Set, and scattered throughout the earth. Isis supposedly found each part of the body and after having Osiris float in the Nile, he came back to life or became the lord of the underworld, depending on which account is read. In any event, stating that Horus was “baptized” is simply playing fast and loose with Christian terminology and is another obvious attempt to link mythology and the Bible.
In addition, Horus had no “ministry.” Horus becoming a teacher at age 12 (mimicking the account of Jesus at the temple as a youth) is nowhere to be found in accounts of Horus; neither are there any statements to the effect that he had 12 “disciples.” According to the Horus accounts, Horus had four semi-gods that were followers and some indications of 16 human followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths that went into battle with him. No accounts of Horus being betrayed are found in his portrayals and he certainly did not die by crucifixion in any account. There is an incident described in one story of Horus being torn to pieces, with Isis requesting that the crocodile god pull him out of the water, but the movie does not mention this, as it does not fit their agenda. Further, the movie puts the account of Horus as originating in 3000 B.C., which predates the invention and practice of crucifixion, so there is another historical problem that must be overcome.
The claims of Horus being buried for three days and resurrected are not to be found in any ancient Egyptian texts, either. Some accounts have Osiris being brought back to life by Isis and going to be the lord of the underworld. But there is no mention of a burial for three days and no mention of his physically coming out of a grave in the same physical body he went in with and never dying again. And there is certainly no account of Horus dying for others as Jesus did.
In the end, the attempt to prove Horus was a picture/forerunner of Jesus simply fails from lack of any historical evidence. The movie continues in this same vein with all the other mythological pagan deities that pre-dated Jesus (Attis, Krishna, etc.) As just another simple example, the Zeitgeist movie says that Hindu’s Krishna was also crucified and resurrected. However, Hindu teachings clearly state that Krishna was killed by an arrow shot from a hunter who accidentally hit him in his heel, and after he died, he ascended to be with Brahman. None of the pagan deities, when accurately examined, mirror the Son of God recorded in the New Testament Gospels.
Of course, neither does the movie note the following facts:
• The many archaeological details confirming New Testament accounts.
• The historically confirmed references to the details of the life of Christ.
• The early dating of the Gospel accounts during the lifetime of the eyewitnesses.
• The deep moral convictions of the authors and their commitment to truth.
• The accounts of the apostles going to their deaths for what they believed.
• The typology of Joseph and Jesus (used by the film to supposedly debunk the actual existence of Christ) is very well known and accepted by conservative Christian scholars as a foreshadowing of the first coming of Jesus.
• All the good produced by Christianity (see How Christianity Changed the World by Dr. Alvin Schmidt), which is brushed aside with only the crusades and other like events being highlighted.
It is interesting to note that Christianity is the only faith attacked in the movie—Islam, Hinduism, and others don’t warrant a mention. Though the faith of the producers is not exposed, there is a blurb at the end speaking to the effect that “all is one,” with a clip of noted evolutionist/materialist Carl Sagan saying that the earth is a single organism and that a “new consciousness is developing” that shows all is one. This is paganism, pure and simple."
Now, one would have to accept that the author of this article did their homework and what they state above is true...just as one would have to assume that Peter Joseph did for his movie. Like many things, the only way to know for certain is to research all of the claims for yourself and see if what is reported about the Egyptian history is true. Both sides can't be correct.
I would recommend that anyone struggling with this would read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroebel or "More than a Carpenter" by Josh McDowell.
http://carm.org/was-resurrection-story-borrowed
see specifically the section:
Questionable if Referring to a Resurrection
see specifically the section:
Questionable if Referring to a Resurrection