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Yesterday's hunt....but what the heck is this bullet

olddude

New member
After finally deciding to send the old Nautilus DMC2 back for a tune up I got the old heavy azz minelab Musketeer out of the closet, dusted her off and took her out for a spin. My place is pretty close to Frasier's Farm and within walking distance to some of the hottest fighting of the battle. I have found lots of stuff right in my yard as both the South and the yanks were in the area for most of the war. Anyway There is this place next to me that I have always wanted to go into but it's hard to hunt cause in the fall and winter the hunters own the woods and once it warms up the ticks are so bad you get eaten alive if you wonder off the beaten path. Yesterday I had planned to go out with my oldest son and a friend of his but things got screwed up as usual so after I had cleaned up the machine, replaced the stripped out plastic bolt that keeps the head from flapping up and down, re tapped the wires and put in new batteries I decided to go out for a little stroll around my place to see how it worked. Long story short, before I knew it I had ventured out in to the woods and before I knew it I was hunting in really thick underbrush and by that time I knew I was already on the menu and ready to be served up so I figured while I had some juice left I would head off into the deep woods to where the trees were bigger and had smothered out a lot of the brushy stuff that covers the forest floor in places where the trees are not as old.

I worked my way over to a spot that I had been wanting to hunt and along the way I picked up a bullet or two, an old muskrat trap and some sort of a round cup like item that looks like it was the top cover for some type of container, It's not magnetic but I don't think it is brass either. I finally came up on a spot that looked like someone long ago had took a spot about 40' square and dug a ditch around it and threw the dirt into the center to where you have a spot that is 2 or 3 feet higher than the surrounding area with a moot around it. There also looked to be some rifle pits scattered around the area and I hunted this area but didn't find anything. After I had hunted this area about 30 minutes I moved on further into the woods and the lay of the land was on a downward grade then as the trees were getting bigger and the woody underbrush was thinning out I could see up ahead what looked like a sharp rise or ridge and as I headed in that direction I crossed what looked like an old road bed that was headed in that general area so I followed it and I could see it was going to pass just to the right of this higher ground and then on deeper into the woods. I hunted my way up to this hill side and as I got close it looked like it was maybe a gun emplacement for 3 or 4 cannons and also some rifle pits and a shallow trench about 100' long along this natural ridge. Not a huge earthwork but I'm thinking this was put there by the yanks to keep the rebels from advancing on their retreating buddies that were headed for the James river and safer ground than what they had seen over the past few days.

As luck would have it this was the site of an old home site and the whole place was littered with trash. I hunted for awhile and dug several pieces of junk so I decided to get out of the all medal mode and turned just about all the junk signals out and I then started picking up one bullet after another and at times I found several within just a couple feet from one another. Most were shot from the hillside about 30 yards away but this area is now covered with underbrush so thick there is no way to get in there and to see what may be lurking underneath. I dug bullets and at one point it got like it was almost a pain because as soon as I would dig one up and put it in my bag then put my head phones back on and place the head to the ground there was another target and I had to jam my poor almost healed, broken knee back down into the sticky holly leaves that covered the ground in that area. I guess it was a bitter sweet kind of a situation so I hung in there until it was almost too dark to see and I headed to the ranch.

Anyway I found a couple bullets I have never seen before and was wondering if someone here might have a clue as to what they are. That is if I can figure out how to post up some pics. Whoops!! looks like I'll have to resize my pictures before it will take them so I'll have to post them later when I get back.
 
The first 2 pics are the side and bottom of a bullet I have never seen before.

The second two have 2 wide rings and a bottom ring that is slightly thinner

The third set is smaller in size with a solid base like a sharps but it looks different than what I've seen before.
 
Some more pics of the things I found.

I found what I want to call a ringtail sharps shown in the pic with 3 bullets in the middle. It measures around 51 cal. The one to the right has a flat base. It is larger and measured in at around 54 cal. The bullet on the left in this pic is really strange. It's too out of shape to measure but it has a really weird looking base, almost like an exploding bullet and it has 2 rings.

The pic with the iron parts are some things I picked up around the same area. The tin cup or lid I referred to eariler, several small buttons with thread attached. Some sort of scoop, a piece that looks to be a gun part, a couple iron buckles, a round item with a hole in the middle, don't have a clue. I also found a couple of what I want to call Georgia teats one of which is shown in the pics that looks like it has been carved on the top or it hit something in a reall weird way.
 
That's a odd bullet. It looks almost like a Shaller.
 
Digger70pa said:
That's a odd bullet. It looks almost like a Shaller.

I was thinking that also or a part of one. I've never seen one up close and personal before but looking at pictures on different sites, there is some likeness but I don't think it is one. To me it's really strange to find so many different kinds of bullets in one small spot like this but it is obvious to me that who ever was on the little hill; somebody else wanted them gone in a big way. I've been doing a lot of reading here lately about the daily lives and the equipment they used. I guess it's not too very odd, especially on the southern side for one company of soldiers to carry several different type firearms but in all the time I have been hunting I have never found this many different kinds of bullets in one small spot. The ones I have posted are just the ones I am not familiar with. There were several different type of Gardner's, at least 2 different type enfields, a couple different type sharps, some pistol bullets, even a possible confederate exploding bullet. I am going to take this one to a dealer to get it looked at to find out for sure but from pictures I have seen of them it sure looks like it to me. I also want to find out what this other one is because I can't find a picture of anything that comes close other than what you mentioned and I'm almost sure it's not one of those.
 
That one bullet is odd with the hole in the base. Think it's a CS explosive? That would be really cool. I have dug three Gardiner Explosive bullets.
 
Digger70pa said:
That one bullet is odd with the hole in the base. Think it's a CS explosive? That would be really cool. I have dug three Gardiner Explosive bullets.

Man they are sweet, What are the two on the right in the last pic they are pretty as a new speckled pup?

I think it is but it is really flattened out so it's hard to see what the side marks are but looking at the base and what you can see it sure looks like the ones you have in your post. Can you post a side view o of the ones you have?
 
The ones on the right are New Austrians.
 
I did a little digging & found that the Confederacy used the Jacob
 
Hey Olddude. Nice finds! I've also hunted the Battle of Frasier's farm, I've got a friend that lives out that way, however I've never dug this many relics from there. You found a great spot. If you have the patience for the old home sites, that's the place to be. Trashy home sites are some of my most productive spots. I just get into dig mode and dig every signal. I always take home a few relics and a ton of trash, but that's less trash for the next time I suppose. HAHA.

Anyway on your bullets... The unusual one to me seems like a variant of either an Italian Garibaldi or Austrian Carcano. It is quite unique and interesting. I've never seen one like it before. I commented on your post on another forum too, because I saw this bullet in the pile on the table and it peaked my interest.

The second one with the fat rings, and the smaller ring at the bottom looks like a Selma Arsenal bullet. Either #417, #418, or #419 in Mason & Mckee's book.

The third one (gray color) I believe to be a more modern round. But not sure.

I agree with the other one being a ringtail sharps. The bottom two look like Gardeners. I think "Georgia teets" had 3 rings.

These are great finds. I hunt a lot around the Central VA area, especially down closer to the river. You seem like a seasoned veteran my friend, this isn't your first rodeo is it? HAHA. If you'd like some company for a hunt sometime, let me know. I'm about a half-hour from you.

-Mike
 
The Wolf said:
Hey Olddude. Nice finds! I've also hunted the Battle of Frasier's farm, I've got a friend that lives out that way, however I've never dug this many relics from there. You found a great spot. If you have the patience for the old home sites, that's the place to be. Trashy home sites are some of my most productive spots. I just get into dig mode and dig every signal. I always take home a few relics and a ton of trash, but that's less trash for the next time I suppose. HAHA.

Anyway on your bullets... The unusual one to me seems like a variant of either an Italian Garibaldi or Austrian Carcano. It is quite unique and interesting. I've never seen one like it before. I commented on your post on another forum too, because I saw this bullet in the pile on the table and it peaked my interest.

The second one with the fat rings, and the smaller ring at the bottom looks like a Selma Arsenal bullet. Either #417, #418, or #419 in Mason & Mckee's book.

The third one (gray color) I believe to be a more modern round. But not sure.

I agree with the other one being a ringtail sharps. The bottom two look like Gardeners. I think "Georgia teets" had 3 rings.

These are great finds. I hunt a lot around the Central VA area, especially down closer to the river. You seem like a seasoned veteran my friend, this isn't your first rodeo is it? HAHA. If you'd like some company for a hunt sometime, let me know. I'm about a half-hour from you.

-Mike

Yeah the problem with this battle was that it covered so much ground and the fighting was not all in one general spot. Then there was so much movement of troops on both sides basically hit and run. Things would have been a whole lot different if Jackson had been a little quicker on the draw and not let the yanks completely destroy the bridge crossing the White Oak Swamp to where it took him a whole day to repair it enough to get his troops and equipment across. They had them right where they wanted them, they had the men and resources to cut the yanks off, they had the will to make it happen but mis-communication, logistics, timing and a fast an crafty foe prevented total disaster for the yanks at Glendale cross roads. This was just one example of the superior resources the north had over the south with respect to not only equipment but also the topographic layout of the land they were fighting in which helped them stay one step ahead of Lee and his army during the whole 7 day battles campaign.

Anyway, several people have looked at those bullets and no one else has ever seen anything like them. One day when I get time I'm going to go over to Governors and see what they think over there. I used to have a lot of contacts down by the river but being out of the game so long most of those contacts have either sold out, died or their kids have took over the family farms and they don't like relic hunters for one reason or another. Oh, I have done some hunting over the years but being out of the game for so long and trying to get back into the swing of things is almost like starting all over. There has been so many advances with electronics over what we thought was the best back then and now everything is so different with so many different machines to sort through it's hard to get everything in one machine. As I said on the other forum I have always wanted to get into the river and creek hunting scene but never got around to it. That is something I diffinitly want to try before I get too damn old to do it.
 
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