Xterra 70 question

[Elton]

Hi All:
took Xterra 70 to old farm site. Hunted in coins mode. Machine hit
on a lot of what appeared to be iron. Raised disc. to block all but
mostly good targets. X70 still gave reading of 42-44 and it was 7 8"
rusty pcs. of something. Is this normal, or am I doing something wrong.
Do they favor iron??? Thank you for reading.
Elton

 

[Digger]

Elton, Deep rusty iron will give us all; a false hope for high conductive silver. But not usually on notch segments 42 and 44. I would suggest you lower the sensitivity a bit, and make sure your GB is set correctly. I like to run mine a bit on the positive side, except in areas like you describe. Then I run it a bit on the negative side.
(higher tone)

I hunt in all metal / 4-tone most of the time. And by crossing over those high pitched targets from multiple directions, I can hear the low tone. I don't know that my theory is completely correct. But let me explain why I think iron hits at the extreme end of the conductive scale. Most of us think of discrimination as being linear. In other words, if you drew a straight horizontal line, the far left end would represent the most ferrous of targets and the far right would represent the most conductive. For the sake of discussion, lets call the left end a piece of old rusty iron and the right end a silver dollar. Where ever you set a variable discriminator within this line, everything to the left of that is rejected. And, everything to the right is accepted. But the X-Terra has notches!! So, divide that line into 18 different segments and you can set the detector to either accept or reject any of them. That is how most of us think of it. And that is how it is drawn in our opertors manuals. But I don't think of discrimination as being linear. I think of it as being circular. Kind of like a compass. On a compass, what degree is straight north? 360 or 0? Actually, it is both. On a compass, 0 = 360. And, with that in mind, 359 is adjacent to 0. Or, 1 is adjacent to 360. Follow me so far? Here is my point. I believe on the X-Terra 70, the notch segment -8 is adjacent to both -6 and +48. If a piece of iron registers -8 on the X-70, it is just a cat's whisker from being either a -6 or a +48. Maybe both! And, if you get a piece of iron trash that is fairly large, it will overlap into +46, +48 and -8. Maybe even bounce into -6.

What does all that mean? To me it means I have to relay more on my ears than on the TID. And that is why I have learned to hunt old farm sites in the all metal mode with 4 tones. All metal with 4 tones allows me to listen for the low tone of iron. I've gotten so I don't even hear that low tone by itself anymore. When I hear the medium low, medium high or high tone, I confirm the target with an Xing motion. And I look for the 3 indicators of consistency. If they are not there, I go on. Probably 90$ of the time (on iron) I will get at least a splash of low tone mixed in with the high tone. That alone is enough for me to move on to the next target. When I do check with the TID, I will find it bouncing between the lowest negative and the highest positive numbers. And again, I go on to the next target. About the only ones that fool me anymore are those nasty old harness rings. If it is round and hollow in the middle, it fools me and about every detector I ever used.

Hope this helps. HH Randy

 

[Elton]

Wow..that opened my eyes.Thanks Randy. I will lower sens and try all metal. I like the machine I just hate digging 40 iron signals, and, just a few good targets. Maybe I was expecting too much from the 70. I will work on it. Again thank you Sir.
Elton

 

[Digger]

don't think you are asking too much out of the X-70. It is an excellent detector and fully capable of finding those coins. I've been trying to "get the hang" of hunting in the multiple tone mode (book says 99 but I think it is 18 ), but find myself quickly switching back to the 4 tone. My hearing is better capable of sorting out the sounds of the low iron with 4 tones as opposed to the multi-tone mode. Seems like, in the multi-tone mode, they all overlap and run together. And the higher tones are not nearly as "pronounced" either. Too many tones make for a much slower hunt. For me, anyway. HH Randy

 

[Elton]

Yes, I know what you mean. I tried the multiple tones and I could not figure out anything with the sounds it emitted. I guess I was just aggravated it hit so many iron targets. I really did dig 40 6, to 7"
small pcs. of rusty something. I am not so young anymore and all that
kneeling and digging wore me out. (HAHA) I think I expected iron mask
and after rereading the manual now know that is only on the prospecting mode. But you know what, "I will bet", someone will trade me a nice Xlt for this if I decide I just can not use it.

Thank you,
Elton

PS: This machine works great in parks, and school yards.It's light, easy to swing, and does seem to go deep.It has lots of good things about it. I just hate digging iron.

 

[RonNH]

Elton, most machines will give a good reading on some iron, even the trusty XLT and DFX for that matter. Digger is right, discrimination is circular, not linear and some iron can "wrap around" to the positive numbers. I say some iron because it depends on the metals used in the iron, they were liable to throw anything in the smelting pot and some of it leaches out in the soil over time. Try manual ground balancing if you are running auto track as the machine will track to iron. I too have dug my share of iron as I hunt mostly cellar holes and old farm fields, it's just what we have to contend with in this hobby. Ron

 

[Elton]

Thank you all for the reassuring information. I am new with the X70 and will give it a good try. All you X70 users make it clear please, I am not trashing the machine. I like most things about it. I just hate to dig iron and I do a lot of farm sites I did not seem to have that problem with a Whites machine. So please bear with my frustrations as I learn.
Elton

 

[Jackpine Savage]

Elton,

Try adjusting the ground balance manually a couple numbers either side of the Auto GB setting as Digger suggested. In the fields around here increasing the GB a couple numbers helped eliminate some of that iron reading in the 42-44 range. Most of the deeper detectors have a bit more affinity to iron, it can't be avoided.

Tom

 

[Elton]

Did ok with the 70 today. tried your suggestions all of you were kind enough to post. Found Barber dime 1906 ( Bad shape) but still a Barber,
Lots of old Wheat cents, new money and only a couple Pcs. of Iron.
I did do one thing different. I found I was using the 3 KHZ coil on the prior sites. switched to the 7.5 khz and not only dug deeper, but eliminated the iron with using your suggestions on Sens etc. Much more pleasant experience. What is the 3KHZ coil best for. I know it's not farm sites( And thats a fact) Thank you all for helping me have a better hunting trip. It really was like a different machine switching the coils and lowering the Sens, and Manual ground balance. I did try auto ground Sens at 22 and tracking. The 7.5 coil was a lot more stable and still did not hit on lots of iron like the 3khz did
Again,
Thank you
Elton

 

[Digger]

how your settings for the 3 kHz differed from the settings you used for the 7.5 kHz. For example, noise cancel, sensitivity, GB. In the places I hunt (farm sites, old picnic grounds etc) the 3 kHz has become my "go to" 9-inch coil. I used the 7.5 extensively when the X-Terra was first introduced. But when they came out with the 3 kHz for the X-70, I gave it a try. At first, I didn't like it as it seemed to operate less stable in the areas I hunt. But once I listened to what it was telling me (4-tones and all metal), I found that I could determine the iron targets better with the 3 kHz than the 7.5 concentric. They both hit them. But the 3 kHz was telling me something the 7.5 had not. Maybe it is all in my head (and not necessarily confined to the ears). But I believe I can hear a sharper "break point" on iron targets with the 3 kHz than the 7.5. In theory, the 3 kHz should be more sensitive to higher conductive targets, like silver and copper. Whereas the 7.5 should be a bit more sensitive to lower conductive targets like iron or even gold. Granted, there is not much difference between 3 kHz and 7.5 kHz. At least not compared to detectors designed for gold. (+/- 60 kHz). But to me, the 3 kHz does the best job on silver and copper coins, in open fields. Again, the 7.5 hunts as deep and is maybe even a bit more sensitive. But the audio signal on iron is easier for me to distinguish on the 3 kHz than on the 7.5 kHz concentrics.

But at the end of the day, use the one that works best for you. If all of us liked the same detector and the same coils, there would only be one set up available. Variety is what makes this hobby so interesting. That and old coins! Congrats on the Barber! HH Randy

 

[Elton]

Hi Randy, well when I had the 3KHz and did not realize that was what I had on the detector I auto ground balanced, Auto noise cancelled and
set Sens to 22. I then started tracking.Detector was stable no noise
but I hit a lot of rusty (Iron)or at least I think it was iron.This morning after re-reading the manual again I read how to tell coil difference. L-Low etc. etc. I went to site and changed the coil before hunting to 7.5 khz and did all the same.Except this time I took your advice and checked ground balance manual style. Set it a little positive. Started to hunt. Noticed machine was runing smooth and real quiet. No chatter at all. In fact all I could hear was faint back ground.Started hitting Wheat cents. did dig one Pc. of deep large iron but it read 46 not 42-44 like when the 3khz coil was on. Found more cents, new and old and a couple of bottle caps. Wine variety not rusty
ones.Hit barber dime, machine said 6 inches via the arrows and it was.
I then turned machine off. Fired it up, auto grounded it, auto noise,
set sense at 24 up two notches. Hit track and started hunting. No noise,
no iron targets, hit more wheaties, new pennies, new dime, and a nickle at 12 reading. Machine very stable, very good on target read outs and it
seemed much deeper than when I had the 3 on it.In fact it behaved like a different detector. If I did not know better would swear someone traded me machines. It was that much different. I was hunting with pattern 2..the most disc. I then tried all metal and guess what all kinds of iron signals just like it should react with all metal. Changed back to disc. and kept hunting did get a couple of one way signals, and
checked them in all metal. Low iron signal. so I did not dig and switched back to the way I like it Disc. and no, or very little iron signals. I may never use the 3khz again. It's that much better with the 7.5..Thanks. Sorry this post so long. Just trying to explain what I did.

Elton

 

[Digger]

it tells me what you did with the 7.5 kHz coil. Glad to hear that it is performing well for you. As to the 3 kHz, I don't know???? All I can tell you is that your findings are much different than mine. That may be due to the different hunting techniques we have, as I seldom use tracking when working a trashy site. And I like the all metal mode. Or, the 3 kHz coil you have is "not up to snuff". But, the good news is that you found a winning combination with the X-70 and the 7.5 kHz. Congrats on the recent finds and keep us posted on your success. HH Randy

 

[Jackpine Savage]

Randy,

FYI, around certain types of iron I saw the same thing with the 3 Khz coil in my ground. I put up with it because at the same time it pulled a few old IH's out of those sites. They were not deep coins but the TID was, for the most part very accurate once pinpointed and swept well centered. These were previously pounded sites so after digging a couple of those solid 42-44 iron hits I ignored them unless they were weak or iffy.

Tom

 

[Elton]

Well at least I am not the only one hitting 42-44 iron readings.
Thanks for posting. Randy thanks for your interest.I will try the 3 in a different location and see how it works jackp let us know how you are doing with the 3khz. I am interested in if it's me, the coil, the area, or maybe just strange iron... Thanks Guys you are all appreciated
Elton

 

[B.T]

Just about every disc machine I have ever used will give a good call on large deeply buried iron, old chisels, pick heads etc: as well as large flat pieces of it like that left over from old tin cans.
That goes for Sovereigns, Tesoro Vaqueros, DFXs, you name them.

 

[Elton]

Yes Sir, I know that. these were small pcs. of iron, or what ever they were. 2" less in length and about 1/4 or less thick. I am also keeping in mind my experience is limited with the 70. The 7.5" coil worked much better for me, and my style of hunting. Thanks for your input it is appreciated.My other concern was they were reading 42-44 and that should have been a pretty good target and not iron.Again Sir thank you!.
Elton